Anyone know about/tried TOSEVEN Mid Drive?

[Heloc]

Hi Alex, several of us here are very interested in more powerful versions of both motors. I would especially like a dm02 with a controller that can handle 30-40 amps like the photon does. I'm sure I speak for many of us that we would be willing to pay full price and provide beta testing and would Also assume any risk If we break anything. As long as parts are available most of us are quite happy to repair our motors. Thank you! Steve

I don't know what the current state of the project is but High Voltage has been working on an upgrade kit using a BAC855 controller. Last I heard, everything works great without the torque sensor but getting that working requires a bit of extra hardware.

They've done a few videos about it on their YouTube channel.

 

[Elinx]

.... without the torque sensor but getting that working requires a bit of extra hardware.

FYI
The torque sensor is a metal ring with strain gauges glued to it.
These are placed in the To7 controller as a wheatstonebridge after which the signal is amplified.
In order to measure the torque signal with another controller, a wheatstone amplifier is required once again.

With regard to the use of strain gauges in the engine,
I do have my doubts about the sealing of them and the soldered wires.
This seems to be missing, which doesn't seem like a good idea to me inside the engine with all the grease from the rotating parts.

 

[steve s]

I don't know what the current state of the project is but High Voltage has been working on an upgrade kit using a BAC855 controller. Last I heard, everything works great without the torque sensor but getting that working requires a bit of extra hardware.

They've done a few videos about it on their YouTube channel.

thank you, I have watched his videos on the controller too. It might be a viable option but I would love to see the company produce a more powerful Integrated system. One of the nice things about mid drive motors is an easy clean install

 

[Stealth_Chopper]

Upon seeing this picture I will suggest that what is sold as 'torque sensing' is quite honestly actually derived from the the real torque applied to the machine by the human because the strain gauges are not applied to the shaft, cylinder, or axle which comprises the bottom bracket detail that carries the LOAD.
This ring shown below appears to me to surround the shaft ( axle ) and move as it ( the shaft or axel ) flexes ( strains ) in response to the pedaling stress.
Therefore any measurement from the device is derived ( twice ) After taking up clearance slop, the ring moves and then after taking up more clearance slop, the S/Gs detect thtat movement ETC Nowhere is there any correction for the temperature which the device may run at AND which these systems have been community noted for running HOT I believe.
"Nuff said."
M.V

"The torque sensor is a metal ring with strain gauges glued to it."

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Ed:
Derived 'torque' I imagine ( you imagine ) is actually 3 or 4 times when I count the S/G gauge factors generally given and lookup curves logic used in the controller
Ed2: I imagine vibration testing will yield immediate results and a rider may be able to feel if that pictured sensor is affected by a 'washboard' harmonic vibration for example = no good.

 

[Elinx]

.....
This ring shown below appears to me to surround the shaft ( axle ) and move as it ( the shaft or axel ) flexes ( strains ) in response to the pedaling stress.
...

This post from @stancecoke, on the DE forum, explains the operation of the To7 torquesensor through several illustrations.

 

[khaoskosmos]

I've had a DM-01 fail due to the torque sensor, it was eventually replaced and I have no idea what actually broke.

 

[steve s]

I'm almost ready to pull the trigger on a Dm02 as a back up and possibly a replacement to my photon. I like the better cooling and the 110bcd chainring and of course the price. have a few questions that could tip me one way or the other.
What kind of continuous power are you getting and has anyone here tried a 60v battery?
how many miles have you put on the motor?
This is a little trivial but does it stay on the previous mode when you power it up or does it revert to level 0? On a similar note does it stay on the last level in each mode say if I set eco on zero, city on one, and sport on five can I toggle between the three? This is something I liked about my bbs02 with the eggider When doing errands with lots of starts and stops I could just hit the power button and go with the photon I have to reset every stop .
Any thoughts are appreciated
Thank you all

 

[Heloc]

I have a 60v battery from affordable-ebikes.ca (Myles and crew were great as always) powering my DM-01 and it works great. Only the T24 and LCD136 displays are compatible with 60v. But I'm not certain the DM-02 will run on 60v. I would e-mail ToSeven or your preferred vendor.

For what it's worth, I bought my kit from california-ebike.com and they have been excellent. I've been looking for a full suspension 29'er to fit a DM-02 on and I will 100% be buying it from Cali ebike again.

The motor does revert to PAS level 1 on startup but does stay in the last of Eco/City/Sport. On thing to note is that, out of the box, all three modes are set to the same max amps with the assumption that the user will set them to their preference.

 

[steve s]

I have a 60v battery from affordable-ebikes.ca (Myles and crew were great as always) powering my DM-01 and it works great. Only the T24 and LCD136 displays are compatible with 60v. But I'm not certain the DM-02 will run on 60v. I would e-mail ToSeven or your preferred vendor.

For what it's worth, I bought my kit from california-ebike.com and they have been excellent. I've been looking for a full suspension 29'er to fit a DM-02 on and I will 100% be buying it from Cali ebike again.

The motor does revert to PAS level 1 on startup but does stay in the last of Eco/City/Sport. On thing to note is that, out of the box, all three modes are set to the same max amps with the assumption that the user will set them to their preference.

Thank you for the reply! At least it starts in a power mode, the photon starts at zero. From everything ive read the dm02 can do 60v but it would be worth checking. Good to know on the displays.

 

[Atak_Snajpera]

Thank you for the reply! At least it starts in a power mode, the photon starts at zero. From everything ive read the dm02 can do 60v but it would be worth checking. Good to know on the displays.

DM02 Ebike Mid-Drive Motor - To7motor

DM02 Ebike Mid-Drive Motor. Competitive Pricing E-Bike Mid-Drive Motor with Enhanced Features. achieve good mute effect, with high gear ratio (40.27).

to7motor.com

 

[shel101]

I see golden motor are now stocking the dm02. At a reasonable price. Anybody ordered one from them, if so how is the motor? Also how are the battery's from Golden motor?

Thanks

 

[biphaeboh]

I see golden motor are now stocking the dm02. At a reasonable price. Anybody ordered one from them, if so how is the motor? Also how are the battery's from Golden motor?

Thanks

I like Golden Motor, they have been good, except batteries.
Their batteries are usually UPP, which can be hit and miss. I like ebikes.ca batteries better, but more expensive.

 

[shel101]

Is the dm02 compatible with multiple battery voltages, or there different motors with different specified voltages? From the toseven website it seems that the one motor version can be used with. 36 or 48v.

 

[Atak_Snajpera]

Supprted are 36v 48v 52v. 60v and above is not supported.

 

[shel101]

Supprted are 36v 48v 52v. 60v and above is not supported.

Thanks, all of the one motor variant? That is, there is just one motor variant which is configurable to either 36 or 48v battery?

 

[Atak_Snajpera]

Yes one motor supports all voltages up to 52v. Battery voltage you just set in options in display. That's IT.

 

[manray]

Between two evils I would nevetheless preffer symetry. I own cyc stealth and I do not have problem with q factor. 165mm + 12mm = 177mm. Still less than in cyc.

Q-factor measures from outside of one crank arm to outside of the other. CYC Stealth Q-Factor is minimum 189mm (N+P). Any Q factor over 170mm can be problematic......i.e. Piriformis Syndrome

 

[manray]

Shitomi junk.

You guys are very well brainwashed by chinese communist propaganda.
Quality control in china is poor. Actually I'm not surprised if average factory worker has to work 10-12 hours a day with only one day off in the week.
Those youtubers promoting chinese cars are just a shills. Paid under the table for "good" review.
I would rather buy german VW ID.3 than anything from china. End of story.

Atak, you are the one that's brainwashed but please don't change....
This is for others. The YT examples provided above (China Observer) is a known anti-China propaganda channel. It's funded by the same guy who runs the Fulan Gong cult. Epoch Times is also under the same umbrella:

Falun Gong - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

For the thinking person. If China is what they say (since 1990 there have been daily predictions of collapse) then why the need to use so much effort to sanction and propagandize China...it's gonna collapse right?
The answer is simple. The Oligarch's which own your government don't want their parasitic "Finance Capitalism" (which channels all wealth to the top 1%) to be exposed. The population (majority) has seen their standard of living get worse decade after decade. Without the anti-china propaganda, the public would blame the "real" culprits (the 1% and the Private Banking Cartel). Rhetoric (propaganda) is for fools. If you know the real China, it is a Market Socialist government which owns it's money creation (Banks) and is running an "Industrial Capitalism" economy. This model has made China the #1 economy in the World by GDP (PPP) since 2016. If people knew the truth, they would demand "real" change.

 

[n00b]

Yes one motor supports all voltages up to 52v. Battery voltage you just set in options in display. That's IT.

Well that's no fun.

 

[Atak_Snajpera]

Atak, you are the one that's brainwashed but please don't change....
This is for others. The YT examples provided above (China Observer) is a known anti-China propaganda channel. It's funded by the same guy who runs the Fulan Gong cult. Epoch Times is also under the same umbrella:

Falun Gong - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

For the thinking person. If China is what they say (since 1990 there have been daily predictions of collapse) then why the need to use so much effort to sanction and propagandize China...it's gonna collapse right?
The answer is simple. The Oligarch's which own your government don't want their parasitic "Finance Capitalism" (which channels all wealth to the top 1%) to be exposed. The population (majority) has seen their standard of living get worse decade after decade. Without the anti-china propaganda, the public would blame the "real" culprits (the 1% and the Private Banking Cartel). Rhetoric (propaganda) is for fools. If you know the real China, it is a Market Socialist government which owns it's money creation (Banks) and is running an "Industrial Capitalism" economy. This model has made China the #1 economy in the World by GDP (PPP) since 2016. If people knew the truth, they would demand "real" change.

Cool story bro! Please don't change!
Chinese EVs are so shitty that even chinese citizens complain about build quality.
Now go back to studying Xi's quotes...

If you really need good EV then buy Tesla or VW or Skoda.

 

[shopken1]

Reply from To7 on the UK Pedelecs forum.

The new DM-01 and DM-02 are not a derivative of the tongsheng Motors. They are a new design
There is some influence as the lead engineer was the engineer responsible for producing the tongsheng motors who's came over to form the new company

the new design is focused on build quality and reliability. They can withstand a lot more power

we have transitioned to UART controller's we intend to keep because its open to community development

we intend to release the motor programming software to the community/ end users and activity engage with them on forums like this

being a step up there is an increase in price.
We don't intend to be dragged into competing on price. We will aim to deliver a quality product with warranty/ servicing and spares availability

if anymore questions please let me know

thanks
Alex

I have a few questions for Alex to answer- Some grand claims here- but no delivery on the promises.

I and a few guys that I know have bought DM01s and cannot even get a single reply back on ToSeven's own webpage for encountered problems. Creating a lot of bad press for ToSeven.

There is absolutely no official printed or digital information. Nothing is included in the kits. No parts availability, so we can attempt to solve the problems with the non functional product they sold us.

I cannot even get a programming cord (should have came with the product if we are going to need it so often) to load the latest software in an attempt to solve some issues.

All that is left is to lean on the sellers of the kits and buy another product with support and a good track record.

High Voltages Discord page offers the most information...

 

[yantra yatra]

As above

 

[shel101]

Yes this whole rollout of the toseven products has not been great. At the moment I don't trust buying a dm02 as it all still feels a bit experimental. I would love to upgrade from my tsdz2, to a better option. But the TS is proven and I know what I'm getting for the cost. Toseven needs to step up their game on product info and availability if they want to gain market share

 

[NVrider]

Hey all! I'm back with an update. A month or two after this post ToSeven released new firmware that was huge improvement and brought back the original Eco/City/Sport modes. By default those are all set to the same 30a max but can be customized. It still wasn't quite as good as the original firmware but I'm happy to report that since then they've been steadily releasing improved firmware versions and is now better than ever and keeps improving. I'm currently using a version released back in early May. There are newer versions but it's so good now that I don't feel an urgent need to update it.

The company continues to be responsive to feedback from the community via their channels on the High Voltage discord server as well as one of the primary US vendors California-ebike.com (excellent vendor).

I have my DM-01 1000w mounted on a Surly Pugsley with a Microshift Advent 9s drivetrain, lekkie offset cranks, Magura MT5e brakes, 26x3 EBC Rhino tires (which are great), and a 12.8ah 60v battery from Affordableebikes.ca. I've put almost 400 miles on it so far and I love it. I have a rear rack with 100lb capacity and nice big saddle bags that I've used to run all kinds of errands and it does great pulling 80lbs worth of kid and trailer that we use to ride to parks and/or just ride around. I love riding it for exercise too! I can set the motor to get the effort I want regardless of what the terrain is doing. With three modes and up to 8 customizable assistance levels I can really dial it in.

I like it so much I'm now starting too look for another donor bike that'll take a 2nd motor. I did some test rides on acoustic bikes and while I think I'll end up with a nice used hardtail, I'm hoping that if I'm patient I'll be able to find a full suspension bike that'll work.

Hit me with your questions and I'll answer when I can.

What are you looking for in a full suspension to work well with the To7?

 

[Heloc]

What are you looking for in a full suspension to work well with the To7?

Should be about the same stuff folks look for with full sus frames and bafang or tongshens. 29" wheels that'll fit 2.8" wide tires. Keep hitting parts of trails that will shake my feet right off the pedals, I'm 43 years old and don't need to be shaking up my joints, and while I'm getting more confident catching air and landing, a little more squish would help me land with more control and confidence. I'm going to try and find something use over the winter that I can hopefully pick up on the cheap that will work.