Are framework laptops any good?

[neptronix]

I'm tired of BS from mainstream PC manufacturers such as soldered on RAM, bloatware, etc and i'm looking for a go-to hardware recommend for my IT clients who tend to be thrifty & don't like that stuff either.

Have you owned a framework laptop - if so, how'd it go?

 

[harrisonpatm]

Dude, how are you posting this thread now? And how is it that I'm able to help you, I'm a newb!? I just went through this a month ago after my fancy tablet died after a year.

Thinkpads, man. Thinkpads.

Look for ebay postings. 400-500 series. '4' or '5' designates screen size. Go for the 200 series if you don't mind a smaller screen. The tens digit is the generation, ie a t450 and a t550 came out roughly at the same time, and the t550 has a bigger screen. Once you've found the model with the features you want (for example, my wife wanted a CD drive, so I used google to see that the e570 had one), check ebay and dig thorough the posts to find a complete one. Or and incomplete one, if you're capable and willing.

All of them are big, solid, easily accessible screws, easy to work on. The keyboards, screens, ports, ram, and drives are all standard and replaceable. Just check out some youtube videos. Key point being the batteries: most of them just clip in and out, with replacements widely available. That's a gamechanger, when compared to the super thin models of today with glued-in batteries that can't be replaced.

Google search specifying reddit posts for specifically which models have stood the test of time. When you do your ebay search, you'll see that many resellers go ahead and update hardware for you. So you'll find 6-8gb ram, running windows 10 or 11 already, some have upgraded to an SSD for faster run times. You'll probably want to avoid i3 chips, and try to get the ones that already have i5 or i7.

I got a t450s for $85 shipped, i7, 8gb ram, 256gb ssd, pre-installed Win11. Battery still lasts 3-4 hours watching a movie. I got my wife a e570, i5, 8gb ram, 500gb ssd, pre-installed Win11, for $82 shipped; it has a chip out of the plastic on the back cover, cosmetic, no big deal, cover it with a piece of tape.

And the best part that I'm currently in the process of discovering? Ditch windows, run Linux Mint or Ubuntu. They only need 25gb on the drive and 2-4gb ram, and it's so buttery smooth on this 10-year old laptop that I'm typing to you on. I've always wanted to dive into linux, and I'm mad that I've put up with windows for as long as I have.

 

[harrisonpatm]

I know it's not a Framework brand laptop, I have no experience with those, but I just wanted to chip in with a potential other solution that might work for some of your clients. Frankly, since you didn't capitalize Framework, I thought that 'framework' must be a descriptor for any brand laptop that runs standardized parts and is reliable and easy to repair. So that's why I responded as I did regarding Thinkpads.

I totally get it if you're working with people who want a new, turnkey purchase, but I want to chip in when I can regarding reducing ewaste.

 

[neptronix]

Nope, i'm talkin' about the brand that specifically emphasizes repairability and upgradability



Lenovo's latest machines are coming with soldered on ram also.. buying cheap older machines isn't an option for corporate clients. Just wondering if anyone here has good experiences with these.

 

[harrisonpatm]

Oh well. I tried. Back to the shadows for me!

 

[neptronix]

On a side note, i'm a big fan of kubuntu with KDE plasma, after running Linux Mint with a Windows VM for years on my business computers.

KDE plasma puts Windows to shame. better looking, and better functioning.. makes me feel straight stupid for using Windows so long. If only i could get my IT clients to use it!

 

[Papa]

Notebookcheck.com has a sizable database of laptop specs - old and recent. Spend a little time there poking around.

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www.notebookcheck.net

 

[E-HP]

It looks like something you customize once, to get the exact setup you want. Upgrading is a fantasy because of how quickly technology changes. Desktops are virtually nonexistent now, except when used for gaming. The Framework looks like a good option for the same niche of folks that would have built their own desktops in the past, lol. I built a killer desktop right about when the world was switching to laptops, and docking stations (at work and home), so I probably have 80 hours on that $$$ desktop and it's sat under my desk ever since (I think it may be on Windows 7). Still, I'd consider Framework if I were going to buy another laptop. Most laptops I see usually are missing one or two features that I've had on previous ones, so it would be a good way to get what I want, I guess.

 

[rafalg]

I'm relying on second-hand Dell laptops - the business/office series like Latitude, Precision, XPS. These are available en masse from companies replacing employee's laptops after 3 years (3 year warranty ends), and can be had for a little fraction of the initial price. Sometimes they don't show too many signs of use, usually battery life isnt great but still these are good quality laptops with great repairability - everything can be taken apart, components replaced and most of the parts are easily available.
Pity that Dell doesnt use Ryzen processors in their higher-end series like the above.
As a bonus - you can get good and cheap Dell docking station for your laptop.

 

[fill]

IM sceptical, as in my 'limited' experience most end users without a technical inclination, and many with too have expectations of a 'new laptop' as a job perk, and status ranking object providing them with the feeling of largesse when they bestow the 'old' machine to a partner or offspring.

So by all means offer it as an option to clients but don't go all out single supplier with them as I dont think we are quite ready just yet (tho we should be) for this to meet common expectations.

 

[Diggs]

I'm not sure what bothers you about the prominent suppliers of laptops today (Dell, HP, Toshiba). They haven't soldered RAM in many years. (They used to do that with the absolute cheapest models.) Screens, keyboards, drives, fans, etc. can be changed in minutes. Late model used laptops that support Win11 are cheap. If the bloatware bothers you then nuke & pave as we say in the repair industry (wipe the drive and put down a clean copy of Win11). Recommend staying away from Apple stuff. Many techs won't even touch that stuff.

 

[LewTwo]

If the bloatware bothers you then nuke & pave as we say in the repair industry (wipe the drive and put down a clean copy of Win11).

Better yet, LINUX (Windows is bloatware).

 

[neptronix]

I'm not sure what bothers you about the prominent suppliers of laptops today (Dell, HP, Toshiba). They haven't soldered RAM in many years.

I just got done shopping for Dells and all models i looked at had soldered on ram.
Used to always order Dells, but they seem to be going the way of other computer makers more & more lately.
I've noticed a dip in quality too in the last few years.

Used devices are not acceptable for most of my clients.. i myself have a fleet of cheap used Dells.

That's why i'm interested in any brand that is still pro reparability and upgradability.. only one i know of is framework.

Notebookcheck.com has a sizable database of laptop specs - old and recent. Spend a little time there poking around.

Loading…

www.notebookcheck.net

Yeah, sounds like impressive hardware.. they seem to have done a good job with thermals at the expense of being a bit louder than most high power laptops. I like that choice

 

[Diggs]

I just got done shopping for Dells and all models i looked at had soldered on ram.

I retired and closed up shop a few years ago so I'm probably out of touch. (I'd never heard of Framework before now.)

Better yet, LINUX (Windows is bloatware).

..and yes, I run a couple of Linux machines. Mint and MX. Even though Linux runs the Internet it isn't accepted at the consumer level except by a few.

 

[Gruesome]

Macbooks used to be pretty easy to get into for replacing components, and could be booted into Windows. I don't know about the most recent generations though.
No experience with framework laptops (never heard of them), and I dislike people usurping common words for their branding.

 

[neptronix]

Apple is the most anti repair computer company in existence today.
Everything soldered on, deals made with suppliers to prevent people repairing them from getting the parts, so they shut out third party repair and made a monopoly. It's extremely bad.

 

[Chalo]

Apple is the most anti repair computer company in existence today.
Everything soldered on, deals made with suppliers to prevent people repairing them from getting the parts, so they shut out third party repair and made a monopoly. It's extremely bad.

Worse, now every e-bike manufacturer aspires to be Apple. (Along with a good chunk of the capitalist world.) We could bring it all to an ugly halt by not being brain-damaged choads when we make buying decisions, but how likely is that?

I judge people who buy Apple products. They know better, but won't be better.

 

[LewTwo]

Worse, now every e-bike manufacturer aspires to be Apple. (Along with a good chunk of the capitalist world.) We could bring it all to an ugly halt by not being brain-damaged choads when we make buying decisions, but how likely is that?

I judge people who buy Apple products. They know better, but won't be better.

The EU currently has a "Right to Repair" law however it is targeted at manufacturers providing repair services.

Right to repair: Making repair easier and more appealing to consumers | News | European Parliament

The new rules reinforce the right to repair, aim to reduce waste and bolster the repair sector by making it easier and more cost-effective to repair goods.

www.europarl.europa.eu

In the US the "Right to Repair" movement targets consumer's rights to repair their own equipment. It is mainly driven by expensive agricultural equipment with computer control systems. However any progress in that direction is progress in the correct direction.

Such a measure was proposed in Texas last year ..... not surprisingly it failed to pass.

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www.ncsl.org

 

[neptronix]

I think changing consumer behavior ( rejecting throwaway things and buying higher value things designed to last ) would be more effective than any law.

In capitalism land the real vote is with your dollar, since the government is deeply in bed with business. I like voting for companies who are doing better business, to help them win.

That's why i'm interested in experiences with things such as these.

Dell isn't a bad company, i'll order another 5 digits of hardware per year for my clients from them until further notice, i'd just rather have that money go to a company that cares about the longevity ( a function of repairability ) of their products.

 

[kuromaku]

Have you owned a framework laptop - if so, how'd it go?

I haven't owned one, but was recently contracted to develop a custom AI accelerator expansion card set for a set of Framework 13 laptops (in the original chassis.) Didn't get a ton of time to futz with the laptops themselves, but having taken them apart a handful of times to instrument them during development, they seemed fairly robustly built. Most of the modules that they had equipped their units with seemed to be pretty well-designed, and should be eminently repairable by the average mall store technician or savvy consumer. No idea if the value is there for average folks.

 

[neptronix]

I haven't owned one, but was recently contracted to develop a custom AI accelerator expansion card set for a set of Framework 13 laptops (in the original chassis.) Didn't get a ton of time to futz with the laptops themselves, but having taken them apart a handful of times to instrument them during development, they seemed fairly robustly built. Most of the modules that they had equipped their units with seemed to be pretty well-designed, and should be eminently repairable by the average mall store technician or savvy consumer. No idea if the value is there for average folks.

Major high five for this reply, couldn't have asked for a better answer on a very important factor.

You know what, i think they make a mistake by not offering low end models. Sure, i the power user would love a 8 core 5.1ghz peak processor that could play games, but Jane at the office would do just fine with a 4 core i5 and stock-as-hell intel graphics, with a little upsizing on the ram, you know?

I do have a couple customers who like their horsepower & the fact that these seem designed with lots of extra air flow does make them badass power user machines ( yeah, go ahead and encode those 4k videos ). The current lineup might be suitable for them.

 

[Nick Obermire]

I think changing consumer behavior ( rejecting throwaway things and buying higher value things designed to last ) would be more effective than any law.

In capitalism land the real vote is with your dollar, since the government is deeply in bed with business. I like voting for companies who are doing better business, to help them win.

That's why i'm interested in experiences with things such as these.

Dell isn't a bad company, i'll order another 5 digits of hardware per year for my clients from them until further notice, i'd just rather have that money go to a company that cares about the longevity ( a function of repairability ) of their products.

My very first computer was a Dell. At the time it was called something different. (maybe PC unlimited?)

 

[Chalo]

My very first computer was a Dell. At the time it was called something different. (maybe PC unlimited?)

That jackass was hustling computers out of his car trunk when he was a freshman in college and I was a freshman in high school in the same city. The difference is that I did things that mattered in the intervening years, while he effed around doing things that were no good for anybody.

I remember when he paid $50,000 to rotate a mature live oak tree at his place so it would look nicer from wherever vantage point. Like it wouldn't matter to the tree. He's been trying to buy his way into heaven for most of the time that has passed since then, but if there's a heaven, there's a hell... and that's his destination. No doubt at all.

Easier to pass a camel through the eye of a needle than to get that dude into anybody's good graces.

 

[DogDipstick]

i love my friggin toughbooks. Smash em off concrete. burn em. hit the brakes and it wont miss a beat logging 40x channels at a 100 hz rate..... as it smashes off the dash form the front seat.... Run that automated log mill bandsaw out back.. in the snow and rain... Run that CNCN mill in the shop.. from a foot away getting blasted with mist coolant... No prob. use it as an umbrella.

Fully rebuild able, easy to use, no special tools, hell they even make a thermal cam module for the laser and barcode scanner and mastercard reader....

Shrug. i will always have one. They are not very affordable new, ( 4$, 5$, maybe, ... ) but you can get them on ebay cheap... ( 15 cents, 20 cents. ) ( maybe 1.00$ for a modern i7 or i5 form 2021...)

 

[neptronix]

I've loved Dell's computers since the early 90's.
Generally they produce the Toyota of computers ( good value, reliable, not too flashy ).

I love building my own computers but the state of the DIY parts market is still focused on making parts that fit an oversized box.

As an expert computer assembler... i cannot make anything as good as this, my favorite model:



.. so imho here's to Dell for so many great years of service.. but.. it's time to move on and find a computer vendor that isn't starting to / hasn't already started following ant-consumer and repairability practices.

BTW just some days ago i was trying to buy Dell laptops locally. I could only find models that had RAM soldered on, and they had inadequate amounts for power users ( 8gb, 16gb ). 32gb models were seen on display but were out of stock everywhere.

We were able to order one direct and get it within 4 days, but it was a pain in the ass to get one overspecced w/ram to counteract the fact that they soldered the mem on.