Battery to motor connection

[ZenaWarrior]

I've have just figured out why motor do a short run then stops. There's 5 tiny wires coming from the battery connected to cabling on the scooter, and if they get disconnected, motor runs and stops, so those wires must be connected but to what ? See the wires, 4th picture bottom left corner, blue, green, yellow, red and black. My guess is they should be connected to the main motor wires, but I'm too scared to try, but if not then to where? The multi-meter show 134 ohms between black and green but nothing else. I've 3 identical scooters, 2 for spare parts and would like to power my gokart with 2 motors and 2 controllers. Any help very appreciated.

Please look under my name in Motor technology for more information

 

[Chalo]

Those are the wires for the Hall sensors that communicate rotor position to the controller.

Y/G/B are the Halls for the three phases, red is +5V, black is GND.

 

[ZenaWarrior]

Thank you for replying....
What do I do with them.. they are attached to the battery and join the main scooter harness and I've traced them to speedo/display for both batteries (scooter has 2 x 30 amp ) and I've 3 identical scooters, 1 is running, so I tried disconnected the plug and it stopped. The hall sensor wires from the controller is connected to the motor. Really really hope you can tell me what to do, I spend 2 weeks now getting nowhere.

 

[fill]

Pictures would help..

wires from a battery that are not thick and heavy duty to supply power are generally a bad sign as they can indicate superfluous battery communication/verification protocols are employed.

if you disconnect the battery wires and disconnect the battery, after reconnecting just the battery power the bike will probably fail to start up at all if these are battery coms wires.

Perhaps the motors cut out after the controller checks for the correct battery and fails to handshake as expected, any error codes or icons on the display???

all battery coms do is limit your options to manufacturer supplied/approved batteries for your 'safety' or? their profit margins..

 

[fill]

It could be just innoscent battery comms too did any icon or info on the display dissappear when the wires were disconnected. What battery/power info is displayed? although the only metric the bike needs is battery voltage..

But it could all be in aid of flashing a bms icon on the display in the case your battery bms develops a fault- some manufacturer could have applied battery coms in a useful way? not crossed my path before but im an armchair engineer at best

 

[lnanek]

Hall sensor wires report the position of the motor's internals to a sensored controller. They shouldn't be joined to the phase wires that actually supply the power to the electromagnets.

Some controllers are sensorsless and don't have anywhere to connect hall sensor wires. Other controllers, like Grin's Baserunner controller, can be programmed to run either sensorsless or sensored.

Sometimes there's also a fourth hall sensor wire for reporting speed. Sometimes there's a duplicate set of hall sensor wires as backup in case the first set of sensors breaks. Prevents having to open up the motor.

Anything else coming from a motor beside halls or phase are typically temperature sensor, strain sensor, or ground. Ignoring a couple bizarre systems with the controller or battery baked into the wheel.

 

[Chalo]

Oh, I just registered that you're talking about the cable directly from the battery. The fact that you have any small wires at all coming out of the battery is a bad sign. It implies that there's some sort of data handshake protocol for the battery to turn on and stay on.

Whatever electronic wizardry is going on inside a battery, there's only one correct number for wires coming out of it: two. Positive and negative, red and black. If there are other smaller wires involved, they exist only to make your battery not work in certain situations. Like if you want to use it to power something it wasn't made for, or if your subscription to the app has expired.

Deciding those things is my job, not my battery's. I just say noooooo when I see evidence I'm being overly nannied or else corraled into somebody's proprietary components ecosystem.

 

[ZenaWarrior]

I've now connected motor, controller and battery up to bikes main harness, and throttle, parking sensor and display, and the motor is running after I pushed the P. button. Then I started disconnecting what I've connected. First the display, where to I've traced the fine battery wire and the P button. The P button of course must be pressed before the scooter can be driven, but it must somehow be connected to the fine wires from the battery.
1) I've 4 off these batteries
2) Connected to scooter harness
3) Motor really moves, but why does it run for several seconds after throttle release?
4) Front of spare scooter. I have 2 spare and 1 running all identical.

 

[fill]

Not sure what you want to achieve. Perhaps dont disconnect the display as without it you can not receive any visual feedback from the system. error messages icons appearing/disappearing etc, all useful info in fault finding..

The motor is probably continuing to spin after its cut off because without any electricity running through its coils the resistance to spinning is drastically reduced so it spins with the momentum its already built up?? That is if i have understood the scenario correctly (40% confidence?)

all the back n forth with your other post is work - so its a gokart your building and you dont want 2x displays on view ?
(future tip, lay out your goals clearly in post #1)

These battery wires connecting to the display complicate matters, without them there is a chance of running headless with throttle control by shorting pins 1, and 2 form the controller (a hack to make the press of the P button), But i dont think that will fly here..

Afaik generally there are 2 lil computers involved in the control system one in the controller working out the phase stuff depending on speed control input etc, the second in the display, and these 'talk' to each other with the controller passing info to the display for display such as power usage, speed etc and the display captures your input when selecting features and passes that back to the controller sort of thing.. Now your system seems to have 3 x computers involved as its also introduced communication ?via the display? to the battery bms.

So to remove the display you will need to trick the controller that its got a display attached to send speed etc to and to accept the user input turning on the bike..

AND fool the battery bms its connected to the display of a 'valid' machine.

While the controller may be 'tricked' easily enough, no one has cracked battery codes en-mass perhaps the odd one has been cracked?? Im not aware of any so this is a show stopper unless you build the displays into the kart to maintain the comms , Or buy new batteries or refit a generic replacement bms to each battery??

 

[ZenaWarrior]

Not sure what you want to achieve. Perhaps dont disconnect the display as without it you can not receive any visual feedback from the system. error messages icons appearing/disappearing etc, all useful info in fault finding..

The motor is probably continuing to spin after its cut off because without any electricity running through its coils the resistance to spinning is drastically reduced so it spins with the momentum its already built up?? That is if i have understood the scenario correctly (40% confidence?)

all the back n forth with your other post is work - so its a gokart your building and you dont want 2x displays on view ?
(future tip, lay out your goals clearly in post #1)

These battery wires connecting to the display complicate matters, without them there is a chance of running headless with throttle control by shorting pins 1, and 2 form the controller (a hack to make the press of the P button), But i dont think that will fly here..

Afaik generally there are 2 lil computers involved in the control system one in the controller working out the phase stuff depending on speed control input etc, the second in the display, and these 'talk' to each other with the controller passing info to the display for display such as power usage, speed etc and the display captures your input when selecting features and passes that back to the controller sort of thing.. Now your system seems to have 3 x computers involved as its also introduced communication ?via the display? to the battery bms.

So to remove the display you will need to trick the controller that its got a display attached to send speed etc to and to accept the user input turning on the bike..

AND fool the battery bms its connected to the display of a 'valid' machine.

While the controller may be 'tricked' easily enough, no one has cracked battery codes en-mass perhaps the odd one has been cracked?? Im not aware of any so this is a show stopper unless you build the displays into the kart to maintain the comms , Or buy new batteries or refit a generic replacement bms to each battery??

Thank you for now, I'm tracing the wires that made the motor stop when disconnected, and I'm getting some interesting surprises to me anyway. Especially not knowing much about electronic stuff. I'll explain later.