Cargo Cult

wturber

1 MW
Joined
Aug 23, 2017
Messages
2,292
Location
Fountain Hills,AZ
This is a bike that I started about five years ago. It is more about scratching an itch than being practical. That said, the intention was that it should be practical and that it would be used regularly. The itch was that I thought the whole idea of a Stoke Monkey was a neat hack. But when I looked into doing one for myself, the left-side drive and the need to turn the pedals with the motor put me off a bit. If only you could have a right side drive with a freewheeling crank. Then you could send power from the motor or the pedals to the back wheel - independently or in concert with each other. A side benefit is that with the motor no longer driving the cranks, you could implement a torque sensing bottom bracket.

The Stoke Monkey was outdated five years ago. And that's why I got a good deal on the Crystalyte motor and mount from Grin. And yes, the Stoke Monkey is even more outdated today - which frankly, increases the appeal to me.

The plan was to make a cargo bike using an xtracycle Free Radical. Yep. Something else that is outdated. Xtracycle no longer makes either the Free Radical or the more modern Leap. I bought my Free Radical from some gal in Tucson. It was in sad shape.

I liked the Trek 820 bikes because they were steel and had fairly robust tubing. I found on on Craigslist. It had a suspension fork and I'd decided that I wanted a solid fork on this bike. This bike would seldom need to go much faster than 25 mph. And with a long wheelbase, suspension isn't as important. I found a Surly fork at a bargain price on Craigslist. I bolted it all together and it seemed like it would work.

I was in no rush, and piece by piece I stripped and repainted the bike, Free Radical and fork. The color scheme grew from the red Stoke Monkey motor. The name came from the story told by Richard Feynman about "Cargo Cults" after WWII. I ordered a Cycle Analyst, motor controller and other bits and pieces from Grin.

The next order of business was the right side drive. It uses a White Industries freewheel intended for use in cranksets of gas powered bicycles. ACS makes a left side drive single speed freewheel, the "SouthPaw" that ratchets in reverse and mounts with reversed threads. Great. But how can I mount that on the Stoke Monkey/Crystalyte hub? I noodled many options and eventually found myself hacksawing the threads for mounting the freewheel off of the Crystalyte cover. I carefully filed that surface nice and flat with a file and then mounted a right side bottom bracket bearing cup in place of the removed threads. I had read somewhere here that BB cups used the same threads as freewheel mounts. And this proved to be true.

Mounting the cup accurately was a challenge. I solve it by 3D printing drill guide jigs. The jigs fit snugly into the center hole of the motor's cover plate and bearing cup. This let me drill the needed holes with pretty good precision. I'm not sure if it really matters, but I added some side plates to engage the flats of the bearing cup and used toughened epoxy to bond both of these to the motor cover plate. Will this be strong enough? I hope so. I'm limiting the system to 1000 watts of batter draw so as to not tempt fate. After all, those screws are tapped into aluminum.

I never had a clear vision of where and how to mount the battery. Also, retirement, Covid, and many other things provided distractions and the bike hung partially completed for years. Three things occurred that pushed the project over the line. First, Battery Hookup had a smoking deal on some 48v 550 watt hour "shark tank" batteries. So I bought three at a bargain price. Then Grin started selling their Fischer AG torque sensing bottom brackets for a stunningly low $60. But the final thing was that I locked my IronHorse ebike to a trailer used by Bob's Free Bikes (where I volunteer) and one of the volunteers borrowed the trailer and drove it home - dragging my bike on asphalt for about a mile or so. While the bike held up surprisingly well, it was definitely out of service. So given the choice of resurrecting the IronHorse or finishing Cargo Cult, I chose the latter. And so, the project was finally completed.
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Agree that the Trek 820 series makes a great platform for a project. High quality CroMoly frame, designed in Waterloo Wisconsin, good build quality.

The fact that the Xtracycle is "outdated" or no longer made does not detract from its wonderful functionality and utility.

Great looking cargo ebike! :bigthumb:
 
Nice work
"Cargo Cult" tickled the memory muscle.
That was the theme for the 2013 Burning Man gathering.
Sharing a couple pictures of our Cargo Cult hauler.

 

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the Trek 820 series makes a great platform for a project. High quality CroMoly frame, designed in Waterloo Wisconsin, good build quality
I did run across a Trek MTB 820 or 830 frame set (don't remember which) that was lugged. Dark green. I hung on to it for years, then gave it away just prior to moving.
 
The fact that the Xtracycle is "outdated" or no longer made does not detract from its wonderful functionality and utility.

Great looking cargo ebike! :bigthumb:
Yep. A bicycle is fundamentally a simple thing. And good accessories tend to also be simple and relatively timeless. This Trek 820 is either a 2004 or 2005. That makes the frame the newest one I have. :)
 
I've never been a fan of the Flite Deck mounts and when one of them failed on me (nut pulled out of the rubber) I modeled a replacement and 3D printed it. It worked fine, but had the same issues as the original in that it uses a little pin/nail to keep the mount from rotating. Still fiddly. So I redesigned them to connect each pair of mounts to each other with a bar. This solves the rotation issue and hence the pin. And it made installing the Flite Deck easier. Just position the two bars and screw the flight deck on top. Done.

I also happened onto a very good deal on a Burley Flatbed trailer. Turns out that the fork clamp (for towing bikes) also works well as a hitch attachment. Were I truly adventurous, I'd have bought two more bags of salt and strap them to the side of the Free Radical extension. While I expect that the Stoke Monkey mid-drive will be more maintenance and hassle down the road, it does make hauling heavy stuff uphill pretty easy.

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Starting to appreciate the versatility of the long tail Free Radical. My wife wanted me to pick up some potting soil. No problem. Could have loaded up two, maybe even three if I were ambitious. The mid-drive made the climb home pretty easy.


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The mid-drive made the climb home pretty easy.

Applause. My kind of bike. (Although my body has forced me off a bike and onto a trike now. With you in spirit, though.)
 
FLBS kind of specializes in Xtracycle. They use them daily.

momentumbikehaul1.jpg


From

(Down about 2/3ds of the page find the
"Things we have hauled:"
section)
 
FLBS kind of specializes in Xtracycle. They use them daily.



From

(Down about 2/3ds of the page find the
"Things we have hauled:"
section)
Love it. Cool xtracycle page. What is FLBS?

I've been towing bikes around like in the picture with my older ebike but I never liked the high hitch mount. I was happy to install the fork "hitch" in an easier to locate lower position on this new bike. The lower mount should make the towed bike more stable. Haven't had a chance to try it out yet tho.

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When I started this project I remade both the wooden Flite Deck and the wooden foot rests from new wood since the old ones were in such bad shape. But I hadn't thought that all the way through and when I installed the more generally useful U-tubes I realized there was no longer a place too install the foot rests. I like the way the foot rests look and while the U-tube does serve double duty as a foot rest, I decided to 3D print some mounts so that I can have the footrests and the U-Tubes.

I now need to come up with an easy to add/remove small handlebar.

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Can you post a picture of you longtail without the panniers?
I'm kinda thinkin' of a diy longtail.
 
Can you post a picture of you longtail without the panniers?
I'm kinda thinkin' of a diy longtail.
If you go to the original post you will find a picture of the bike assembled before anything was painted. No panniers and no U-Tubes. I have other images of the bike from different angles like this before I did any repainting. If you give me some idea of the detail you'd like to see I can see if I have anything that would help. Otherwise, I won't have the panniers off for a few days. But if/when I do have them off I can take and post some pictures for you.
 
Thanks. I found the picture of the naked bike at the beginnig of the thread, and the framework of the added rear. Took me awhile to turn the framework over in my mind to figure out how it attaches to rear lugs of the front bike. So thanks. It gives me something to think about.
 
I now have about 200 miles on this bike and I've been getting used to riding it. One of the things that I don't like compared to my hub motor bike is that I have to stay aware of how much power the motor is putting out before shifting. Since almost all of my "throttle" is from the torque sensing bottom bracket you can sorta do this by just stopping the pedaling motion. But it isn't always smooth or neat. Though I'm getting better at coordinating things. It occurred to me that if I just had a momentary motor kill button as is built into the brake levers, I could just press that prior to shifting. That seems like it could make things smoother. And as it turns out, the Grin Digital Aux Input switch has a middle button that is unused. Grin doesn't document it other than to say that the two wires connected to that button are tucked inside the heat shrink tubing.

So I dug in there today and it turns out the middle button is normally open and momentarily closed on push. This was perfect for my idea. So I wired it into the CA brake signal wiring and now I can press the button to immediately kill power to the motor. I'll see how functional it is tomorrow. If not, I'll give Grin's Gear Sensor a try. They are on clearance right now. So not a great loss if it doesn't work well.
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Thanks. I found the picture of the naked bike at the beginnig of the thread, and the framework of the added rear. Took me awhile to turn the framework over in my mind to figure out how it attaches to rear lugs of the front bike. So thanks. It gives me something to think about.
If you dig around you can find cargo bike conversions where people take the back triangle of a donor bike to make the extension. The bottom bracket is made to hook into the rear dropouts and a brace of some kind is welded onto the rear triangle to triangulate the extension and make the system rigid. Check out this thread.

 
If you dig around you can find cargo bike conversions where people take the back triangle of a donor bike to make the extension. The bottom bracket is made to hook into the rear dropouts and a brace of some kind is welded onto the rear triangle to triangulate the extension and make the system rigid. Check out this thread.

Yes, I did find and go through that thread. What I noticed is that on your longtail conversion kit is it transfers the load from the conversions rear lugs to the bike's bottom bracket. Something you don't see on those diy conversions.
 
Yes, I did find and go through that thread. What I noticed is that on your longtail conversion kit is it transfers the load from the conversions rear lugs to the bike's bottom bracket. Something you don't see on those diy conversions.
More precisely, it transfers the load to the bridge between the chain stays an inch or so behind the bottom bracket. It has long bothered me that the xtracycle Free Radical is anchored with just the one fairly small bolt. It probably shouldn't given the length of the lever arm. But coincidentally, I added a second clamping bolt this morning after fabricating an aluminum bridge. It probably isn't necessary. But I figure it won't hurt.

You might find this installation manual worth looking at:

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I was thinking of grafting the rear of this bike on to some stout steel bike to make a longtail:

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Don't think it would be anywhere near as strong as your bike, but if I centered the cargo weight over the rear wheel it might work. Or maybe not.
 
I was thinking of grafting the rear of this bike on to some stout steel bike to make a longtail:

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Don't think it would be anywhere near as strong as your bike, but if I centered the cargo weight over the rear wheel it might work. Or maybe not.
It could work. Just make sure you are OK wrecking what looks like a perfectly good bike for the purpose. If you have some bike co-ops in your area, you could probably check in and see what they have that you might be able to use.

You could also just do what I did and cruise Craigslist looking for an xtracycle Free Radical or Leap. Maybe sell the Novara to help fund it. Here's one in Tucson for $600. And it has lots of extra. I live in the Phoenix Metro area, and the one I have turned up in Tucson also. It was worth the drive down to pick it up. It was detached from any bike and in poor shape easier for me than trying to fabricate or repurpose.

And here's one in Santa Rosa, CA - no bicycle for $250.

Of course, if you are just itching to build something from scratch, then by all means do that.
 
So I dug in there today and it turns out the middle button is normally open and momentarily closed on push. This was perfect for my idea. So I wired it into the CA brake signal wiring and now I can press the button to immediately kill power to the motor. I'll see how functional it is tomorrow. If not, I'll give Grin's Gear Sensor a try. They are on clearance right now. So not a great loss if it doesn't work well.
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So using this button to kill the motor while shifting gears works quite well. The only problem is that I accidentally pressed the "-" button and inadvertently turned the motor power down rather than kill the motor. Being careful to hit the middle button isn't exactly hard, but you to have to be a little careful since the three buttons feel the same.

The kill is immediate and I get immediate audible feedback as the motor's drive freewheels because I'm still pedaling lightly while shifting. That's nice because without looking, I know that the motor is no longer driving the chain and putting it under tension. It's an interesting sensation because my mind is preconditioned to associate coasting with that freewheel clicking sound and it momentarily feels like there's a subtle acceleration when I kill the motor. Of course that isn't happening. It's just an odd illusion.
 
You could also just do what I did and cruise Craigslist looking for an xtracycle Free Radical or Leap. Maybe sell the Novara to help fund it.
Thanks wtuber, I'll search for an extracycle framework.
Don't think the Novaro will help much dollar wise, as my cost for it was $30, but I won't molest it for awhile. I have a hub motor to put in a rim next. My first attempt at a wheel build. If that works it might end up in a diy longtail.
 
Thanks wtuber, I'll search for an extracycle framework.
Don't think the Novaro will help much dollar wise, as my cost for it was $30, but I won't molest it for awhile. I have a hub motor to put in a rim next. My first attempt at a wheel build. If that works it might end up in a diy longtail.
Maybe you can flip it for $60. :^) Note that the spelling is "xtracycle" (that's the company) and the product is the "Free Radical" or the "Leap". I'm not being pedantic. But not getting the spelling right could hinder a search. The Leap is the second generation version of the "Free Radical". You are more likely to find the "Free Radical" at a lower price. Allso, xtracycle now only makes electric cargo bikes and previously also made cargo bikes. So you will find a lot of that if you just search for "xtracycle." I find it kinda sad that they no longer make the thing that started the company. Oh well. The world changes.
 
Maybe you can flip it for $60. :^) Note that the spelling is "xtracycle" (that's the company) and the product is the "Free Radical" or the "Leap". I'm not being pedantic. But not getting the spelling right could hinder a search. The Leap is the second generation version of the "Free Radical". You are more likely to find the "Free Radical" at a lower price. Allso, xtracycle now only makes electric cargo bikes and previously also made cargo bikes. So you will find a lot of that if you just search for "xtracycle." I find it kinda sad that they no longer make the thing that started the company. Oh well. The world changes.
Their Edgerunners were so good, wish they kept an analog one around. Yuba is probably the best now when it comes to analog longtail bikes still in production.
 
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