CYC PHOTON

[myozone]

@hindesite My guess would be a MOSFET or driver, why, I had a washing machine with a 3 phase motor that made a similar arcing sound before the driver board went POP. The motor would spin up but make a similar weird arcing sound before it started to spin and at slow speeds. I thought it was as first brushes until I opened the machine and realised it was a 3 phase motor - no brushes. You could try with a stick to listen to the controller, motor and gearbox ends and identify where it's coming from. Use the stick against your ear as you do when ID'ing car engine noises ...

 

[PeteCress]

The sprague cluch has been replaced at least four times.
Several bearings have been replaced.
The torque sensor assembly has been replaced 3 times.
Frequent cleaning and lubrication.

• What was the sprague clutch's failure mode? Gradual or sudden? If sudden, did it strand you by making the bike un-pedalable?
• Did the sprague clutch failures occur at about the same miles? I am thinking in terms of pre-emptive replacements.
• When cleaning & lubricating, did you just put grease on everything that moved? I have seen one thread where it sounded like grease between the pinion and blue gear caused slippage problems.

 

[Wapous]

• What was the sprague clutch's failure mode? Gradual or sudden? If sudden, did it strand you by making the bike un-pedalable?
• Did the sprague clutch failures occur at about the same miles? I am thinking in terms of pre-emptive replacements.
• When cleaning & lubricating, did you just put grease on everything that moved? I have seen one thread where it sounded like grease between the pinion and blue gear caused slippage problems.

Usually you detect a bad sprague cluch when you start pedaling. The quality of the sprague cluch varies and it is difficult to predict its replacement. I would say a 10,000 km replacement. But as the quality is not equal it is difficult to predict.
Regarding the lubrication of the Blue Gear and the Pinion see the drawing.

 

[hindesite]

@hindesite My guess would be a MOSFET or driver, why, I had a washing machine with a 3 phase motor that made a similar arcing sound before the driver board went POP. The motor would spin up but make a similar weird arcing sound before it started to spin and at slow speeds. I thought it was as first brushes until I opened the machine and realised it was a 3 phase motor - no brushes. You could try with a stick to listen to the controller, motor and gearbox ends and identify where it's coming from. Use the stick against your ear as you do when ID'ing car engine noises ...

No need, the motor is so well connected to the frame that the whole bike is a sounding board; however it isn't relevant where the noise is actually coming from. The motor essentially works like a speaker in this situation. and a phone is better than a stick, these days

 

[hindesite]

But what else do you expect? Magic firmware update fixing physical malfunction in controller

That is EXACTLY what I expect. There is no evidence at this stage that this is 100% certainly a hardware failure so the first step should be to re-install/update the firmware. The system runs normally and the issue started after saving some changes to settings.

Second step would be to replace the controller, which looks easy enough.

From there, we'll see.

Anyway. Thank you for your BETA testing of this motor. Personally I will wait for Photon Gen2 ...

No problem, but less snark and more encouragement would be appreciated.

Some of us don't want to wait. It is later than you think.

 

[hindesite]

Why are you asking on this forum for a solution to your problem knowing that currently no one has mechanical experience with the Photon motor?

Because in general terms there is nothing special about this motor; lots of people here have experience with these types of systems.

A comment on my video described a very similar issue with a BBS and it resolution, may well also apply here.

You have the chance to communicate with the technical service of the manufacturer. Why not wait for their diagnosis?

Because the more relevant information I can give them the more likely I'll get a decent result. I'm still waiting, BTW...

Note: Try to communicate with the technical department of Tongsheng Co. and you will let me know.

What is the relevance of Tongsheng tech dept to my issue? And should I DM you?

If they can diagnose the problem, they might be open to sending you the part and allowing you to do the repair as per their instruction.

Maybe, we'll see. That might be a step in the process.

You seem to be claiming that all Photon motors will have this problem at 200km.

I've made no such claim. I will claim that all of the motors I have failed before 200km though.

Today we have 300km on each of our two engines and everything is fine. On other forums, users arrive at 1000km and are still satisfied.

Sweet

Nobody here knows the sales statistics of the Photon motor.

Go look at the number of downloads for the CYC Ride Control app. It was 500 when I wrote the first review! You can draw reasonable conclusions from that.

Nobody here knows the percentage of Photon motors with a technical problem.

And following your logic, if nobody posted about their issues here, we wouldn't even know there were problems. Forums and social media are a hugely important tool for customers to hold manufacturers available and get products improved. It is ridiculous to not use it. The Photon would not exist without them.

Speculators and big talkers only make BLA BLA.

Agree, yet here I am, an actual user posting about actual experiences, both good and bad. Defies belief, doesn't it...

Being able to communicate with a technical service of a manufacturer is part of the purchase price.

Communicating in this forum is free. Thanks for your encouragement and help.

 

[hindesite]

Sorry for the trouble you're experiencing @hindesite, hopefully CYC will come to the rescue - not something that Bafang or Tongsheng could ever bother themselves with, AFAIK. CYC better support us, at their price point.

Thanks, I hope so too. The other manufacturers probably did support better in the early days but they do now have a decent online community and third parties involved. And they are both now a bit distracted but for different reasons, Bafang has grown beyond expectations and moving in new directions and Tongshen, shall we say, has had some setbacks

Yep, we beta test the good, bad, and ugly.

I continue to run my Photon motor hard, hot, and heavily loaded, on the throttle, unrestricted. If it can't take it, I want it to break now, and not on the leisurely & long (but away from home) 300+ mile ride this motor was purchased for. Of course, there are no assurances it won't fail, now and not then. I'm also exercising with the torque assist, and really like how it operates.

I think I'm past 600 miles in short rides, but I've been swapping displays. Maybe the app keeps track of the totals.

Been very impressed with this motor, it really has been a game changer in terms of where I ride - both in climbing ability and distance. I do have a specific trip planned for it in about 6 months, not particularly long but very high with lots of climbing. Many people helibike it.

 

[Atak_Snajpera]

That is EXACTLY what I expect. There is no evidence at this stage that this is 100% certainly a hardware failure so the first step should be to re-install/update the firmware. The system runs normally and the issue started after saving some changes to settings.

Second step would be to replace the controller, which looks easy enough.

From there, we'll see.

No problem, but less snark and more encouragement would be appreciated.

Some of us don't want to wait. It is later than you think.

I will disapoint you but cyc does not just send x6p controllers if your unit dies in photon. Few weeks ago we had user on Polish forum WHO was able to fry his photon just by connecting cyc battery.(imagine waiting months for motor and kill IT just after installation lol) According to cyc mosfets were killed and they told him to send back whole unit to HK.

 

[latevance]

That is EXACTLY what I expect. There is no evidence at this stage that this is 100% certainly a hardware failure so the first step should be to re-install/update the firmware. The system runs normally and the issue started after saving some changes to settings.

Second step would be to replace the controller, which looks easy enough.

From there, we'll see.

I dont know why you are presuming to tell Cyc engineers how to proceed. If you insist the unit is faulty beyond what you have changed in the settings to cause the noise and irreversable, then you should contact Cyc for warranty claim. No doubt they will request that you send the unit back for assesment before deciding wether it is a genuine fault covered under the warranty before replacing it.

What is it with Cyc customers that they think they should be sent brand new units/parts just on their say so that they think the original is not working how they think it should without the need to send back the warranty parts first for inspection.

Are you telling us everything here as it seems strange that when you contacted Cyc they did not ask you to send them the unit so it can be inspected and assesed for a warranty claim before sending out a new one, or price to repair the old one if it is user abuse/damage. Is it the case that you are insisting that they send you free replacements without you returning the faulty parts first and that is why there has been a delay in the warranty process? A process that is clearly stated on the website. You send them back the faulty one and if it is under warranty they will replace it.

I also do not know why you are posting here instead of dealing with Cyc, or do you think that it will somehow help you in getting a free brand new Photon sent out. By highlighting it here you are just encouraging other Photon users to do the same and abuse their Photons so it will fail sooner than later in order to insist on a brand new one being sent out as a 'spare' before the 2yr warranty ends 'because Hindesite managed to fudge and harass for a free replacement, I expect the same'.

I hope Cyc are strict in adhering to the warranty process otherwise it just encourages users to falsly claim free parts because 'why not' and I heaard on a certain forum 'everyone is doing it'

I should add that I am in no way suggesting you are trying to get free spares, but maybe your warranty claim would go more smoothly and quickly in the long run if you followed the process as asked by Cyc

 

[latevance]

Sorry for the trouble you're experiencing @hindesite, hopefully CYC will come to the rescue - not something that Bafang or Tongsheng could ever bother themselves with, AFAIK. CYC better support us, at their price point.

Yep, we beta test the good, bad, and ugly.

I continue to run my Photon motor hard, hot, and heavily loaded, on the throttle, unrestricted. If it can't take it, I want it to break now, and not on the leisurely & long (but away from home) 300+ mile ride this motor was purchased for. Of course, there are no assurances it won't fail, now and not then. I'm also exercising with the torque assist, and really like how it operates.

I think I'm past 600 miles in short rides, but I've been swapping displays. Maybe the app keeps track of the totals.

I hope you are prepared for the down time in sending the motor back for a warranty claim befor they send out a replacement if is not deemed user abuse (sounds likely), or do you also expect them to send you a free spare motor.

 

[Mongo]

I hope you are prepared for the down time in sending the motor back for a warranty claim befor they send out a replacement if is not deemed user abuse (sounds likely), or do you also expect them to send you a free spare motor.

No. I'm not expecting CYC, or the vendor I purchased the motor from to send me a free spare motor. Nor would I expect such over the top support when buying any product. I expect and hope CYC honors their two year warranty, via the commonly accepted practices that protect all parties involved. I also hope that, for some failure conditions, CYC or my in-country vendor will send replacement parts, under the typical exchange agreement terms.

For my Bafang BBS powered bikes I have complete spare motors on the shelf - even though my vendor, in one case, repaired a motor under their good faith support concept, and in another, sent out an exchange part. If I end up upgrading more of my bikes with CYC motors, and depending on failure rates/types, I may consider purchasing a spare.

Do you feel I'm abusing my Photon motor by running to maximum power as designed, within the confines defined by the CYC settings, but never lugging it down in an impossible gear? I don't.

 

[Atak_Snajpera]

I dont know why you are presuming to tell Cyc engineers how to proceed. If you insist the unit is faulty beyond what you have changed in the settings to cause the noise and irreversable, then you should contact Cyc for warranty claim. No doubt they will request that you send the unit back for assesment before deciding wether it is a genuine fault covered under the warranty before replacing it.

What is it with Cyc customers that they think they should be sent brand new units/parts just on their say so that they think the original is not working how they think it should without the need to send back the warranty parts first for inspection.

Are you telling us everything here as it seems strange that when you contacted Cyc they did not ask you to send them the unit so it can be inspected and assesed for a warranty claim before sending out a new one, or price to repair the old one if it is user abuse/damage. Is it the case that you are insisting that they send you free replacements without you returning the faulty parts first and that is why there has been a delay in the warranty process? A process that is clearly stated on the website. You send them back the faulty one and if it is under warranty they will replace it.

I also do not know why you are posting here instead of dealing with Cyc, or do you think that it will somehow help you in getting a free brand new Photon sent out. By highlighting it here you are just encouraging other Photon users to do the same and abuse their Photons so it will fail sooner than later in order to insist on a brand new one being sent out as a 'spare' before the 2yr warranty ends 'because Hindesite managed to fudge and harass for a free replacement, I expect the same'.

I hope Cyc are strict in adhering to the warranty process otherwise it just encourages users to falsly claim free parts because 'why not' and I heaard on a certain forum 'everyone is doing it'

I should add that I am in no way suggesting you are trying to get free spares, but maybe your warranty claim would go more smoothly and quickly in the long run if you followed the process as asked by Cyc

I've checked history of your posts and all posts in this forum are in the same tone. You always DEFEND CYC no matter what and tell people to literally shut up and not discuss any issues with cyc motors publicly. You must be a company fanboy or most likely just a CYC employee doing this stupid PR-stuff. (It is funny that you always write Cyc instead of just cyc).

You better ask your overlords when will they start sending X6 controller to customers god dammit!

 

[Wapous]

With the same 48 volt battery the CYC Photon motor gives me 10 km more than with my TSDZ2 motor.
Even with a low residual voltage of 43 volts the torque remains linear.
The setting is Race at level 1.
With an ambient temperature of 20C the engine does not exceed 45C. (On the paved road off course)
I adjusted the sensitivity of the torque sensor to the maximum. Low sensitivity tends to work by pulsation.
Engine noise is low and pleasant.
I would like to compare it with a Bosch system. But I did never drive one.

 

[hindesite]

With the same 48 volt battery the CYC Photon motor gives me 10 km more than with my TSDZ2 motor.
Even with a low residual voltage of 43 volts the torque remains linear.
The setting is Race at level 1.
With an ambient temperature of 20C the engine does not exceed 45C. (On the paved road off course)
I adjusted the sensitivity of the torque sensor to the maximum. Low sensitivity tends to work by pulsation.
Engine noise is low and pleasant.
I would like to compare it with a Bosch system. But I did never drive one.

Is that an extra 10km on a 20km ride or a 100km one?

 

[Wapous]

Is that an extra 10km on a 20km ride or a 100km one?

Previously with a 750w battery I was doing around 90km. Now it's 100km. I repeated the test 3 times on easy roads with few hills.

 

[hindesite]

I dont know why you are presuming to tell Cyc engineers how to proceed.

Strange, I don't recall sharing the details of my communications with CYC with you, so what you say might be true. IE, you don't know.

If you insist the unit is faulty beyond what you have changed in the settings to cause the noise and irreversable, then you should contact Cyc for warranty claim. No doubt they will request that you send the unit back for assesment before deciding wether it is a genuine fault covered under the warranty before replacing it.

No, they won't.

Normal procedure in these situations is:

1. turn if off and on again
2. reset to defaults
3. reinstall or update firmware

So your "no doubt" statement and all that follows is wrong.

What is it with Cyc customers that they think they should be sent brand new units/parts just on their say so that they think the original is not working how they think it should without the need to send back the warranty parts first for inspection.

Are you telling us everything here as it seems strange that when you contacted Cyc they did not ask you to send them the unit so it can be inspected and assesed for a warranty claim before sending out a new one, or price to repair the old one if it is user abuse/damage. Is it the case that you are insisting that they send you free replacements without you returning the faulty parts first and that is why there has been a delay in the warranty process? A process that is clearly stated on the website. You send them back the faulty one and if it is under warranty they will replace it.

Wow, meanwhile in the real world, commonsense prevails. I made no such demands; and to quite clear and to avoid maligning CYC as you have just done, there hasn't been any delay in the warranty process.

I also do not know why you are posting here instead of dealing with Cyc, or do you think that it will somehow help you in getting a free brand new Photon sent out.

That is a very personally offensive claim to make, with no basis in reality. Again.

By highlighting it here you are just encouraging other Photon users to do the same and abuse their Photons so it will fail sooner than later in order to insist on a brand new one being sent out as a 'spare' before the 2yr warranty ends 'because Hindesite managed to fudge and harass for a free replacement, I expect the same'.

What an imagination you have. So many predictions into the future, based on nothing that has happened in the past.

I hope Cyc are strict in adhering to the warranty process otherwise it just encourages users to falsly claim free parts because 'why not' and I heaard on a certain forum 'everyone is doing it'

I should add that I am in no way suggesting you are trying to get free spares, but maybe your warranty claim would go more smoothly and quickly in the long run if you followed the process as asked by Cyc

TBH, you need to go ride your bike, I think.

Meanwhile I'll circle back around to a few things.

How a company deals with faults and issues is up to them, and they probably don't need your help with how to do it. I'm not sure customers appreciate your advice, either. I have in the past dealt with a wide range of product issues and the responses have ranged from not great to fantastic - and generally the smaller companies are more responsive to getting things sorted and for that reason alone I tend to support them. I also tend towards products with open source or third party firmware or software support.

In the past I've been sent firmware or software versions to fix problems without having to return an item; I've been sent parts at no cost, and out of warranty, to repair an action camera (which required soldering skills, too, and no, of course it wasn't GoPro) so how companies deal with product issues varies wildly from your dreamworld approach.

The most ironic item, and which I've saved for last, is that the very bike that my CYC motor is fitted to, is one that the manufacturer sent me a replacement frame for at no charge, even including a new Dub BB. They didn't require the old frame back for inspection and were happy to accept my documentation.

Some comments on the 2018 Silverback Slade Comp

TL;DR The 2018 Silverback Slade Comp was a fairly decent spec yet inexpensive 27.5+ recreational MTB. The bike build that I ended up with is however, far superior, in weight, quality of components …

hindesite.wordpress.com

I could imagine (though in no way implying this is the case) but if a manufacturer knew there was a specific and easily identifiable issue with a part, they might well prefer to ship the part out rather than deal with the logistics of receiving repairing and shipping entire motors and that might suit some customers.

Obviously, when dealing with manufacturers, YMMV. In your case, I imagine, by quite a bit.

 

[Atak_Snajpera]

Previously with a 750w battery I was doing around 90km. Now it's 100km. I repeated the test 3 times on easy roads with few hills.

I have similar consumption with stealth. With 1200wh battery I do 150km+.

 

[hindesite]

Well, here's a video that Photon owners will not want to see:

Update: CYC have left a comment on the video, which I have pinned. It reads:

Hi guys. Please note that this is not due to any damaged hardware or electrical components. It's due to some finetuning of the motor which we are currently busy with and will be released in a firmware update soon. This firmware update will be available to everyone and will be done remotely via app.

Two other people have similar experiences, one with a BBS which was fixed by firmware, and another with a Photon who reports no detrimental effects at 600km.

CYC have been pretty quick to respond and I stand behind my decision to post about this in this forum; this will reassure others who encounter this noise and helps make CYCs approach to it transparent. If people don't post about issues they encounter, or even face negativity from some people in this forum for doing so, we lose a lot of the value of social media, ie the ability to share problems and solutions.

And now we all know there is a firmware update imminent

 

[Wapous]

And now we all know there is a firmware update imminent

Great news!

 

[sysrq]

Here in EU even resellers for example fasterbikes.eu do not have Photons in stock. This looks very alarming...
Perhaps I made a mistake purchasing X6 controller for my stealth gen1 from CYC . Maybe I should just buy a new ASI BAC855 instead (assuming that any ASI BAC855 works with CYC STEALTH gen1)

Not sure if it means that they have Photons in stock if they say shipping takes only 15 workdays? So they might have warehouse somewhere closer than Hong Kong then? Hard to understand which dealer is the best to use in Europe or just use the cyc website directly.

 

[raylo32]

Interesting. I have a Photon on order from a USA dealer for a new build and hope it comes with the new firmware. It is on long backorder so I suppose it should have the new FW by the time I see it. But if not, it should be easy to update via the app.

Update: CYC have left a comment on the video, which I have pinned. It reads:

And now we all know there is a firmware update imminent

 

[Atak_Snajpera]

Not sure if it means that they have Photons in stock if they say shipping takes only 15 workdays? So they might have warehouse somewhere closer than Hong Kong then? Hard to understand which dealer is the best to use in Europe or just use the cyc website directly.

Add photon to cart and you will see that not a single unit is available.

Basically those motors only exist on jpg images and not in physical form.
Basically CYC PHANTOM. That's the real name now.

 

[Wapous]

After 400km nothing is loose. The motor keeps its position.
I love the efficiency of the torque sensor. It responds instantly.
Same for my wife's motor.

 

[sysrq]

Add photon to cart and you will see that not a single unit is available.

Basically those motors only exist on jpg images and not in physical form.
Basically CYC PHANTOM. That's the real name now.

Tried to order another CYC display and it was available. That might be irrelevant though.

 

[hindesite]

CYC peripherals:

Just a quick post about my experience with the peripherals supplied with the Photon, which might help some people on the fence about which options to consider. I'll get around to a separate post about the CYC battery later.

Here's the bike and this also gives you some idea of where I use it - this is not for regular street use or commuting. YMMV.

I ordered the 4-wire harness, with additional brake sensors. I wasn't intending to fit these on my bike, though that harness is necessary if you want to add a 3rd party gearshift sensor, for experienced riders this is not necessary. I chose this for future proofing should I move the system to another bike. In retrospect a 2-wire harness would have been just fine, and replacement harnesses are available and are not expensive anyway. I just heatshrinked over the spare connectors to protect them and tucked them out of the way. There is plenty of length in the harness, in fact I would have preferred a shorter one. YMMV but I doubt the standard harness will be too short for most installations. For installation I used black electrical insulation tape, since it matches the colour of my frame and is practically invisible. It will deteriorate over time but is easy to replace and won't damage the frame or wiring, and is easy and cheap.

I also ordered a throttle. Although I hadn't intended to fit the throttle, (and it may not even be legal where I live) it is really useful if you want to use lower assist levels but retain the ability to add an instant boost for passing or difficult terrain. You can ride through deeper water without getting your feet wet. Or you can stop pedaling if no one is looking

The throttle is quite bulky. It looks appalling from the front, the clamp and body are huge, but at least it seems solid. The mounting clamp screw hasn't been recessed at all, this is very agricultural. It fits adjacent to the left handgrip, and I usually operate it by rolling the edge of my thumb into the angle between the blade and the clamp, rather than pressing on the blade directly. This gives more control and is very comfortable, allows you to control very smoothly and consistently. I may remove some of the blade so it gets in the way a bit less; in my installation it has to sit next to the dropper lever and it makes that hard to access. The throttle clamp is so bulky I can't fit it on the right side because it conflicts with the shifter and controls.

This seems to be a WuXing 300 unit, which is available in a couple of different terminations on AliExpress. At 1/3 of the price CYC is charging. It would be really nice if this product was improved and updated, which I'm sure would be possible, the market for these must be huge and I think these have been around for a long time.

The SW102 display is quite good. It appears to be manufactured by Topology and seems to be similar, or the same hardware, as used by Eggrider for Bafang and other motors, and I'd love to see some of the Eggrider functionality built into the software from CYC - datalogging would be really useful. I'm guessing Topology have produced a customised version for CYC, I hope they can continue to improve and eventually offer some alternatives.

The display, menu and controls are logically laid out and easy to operate, though I find when actually riding, there is effectively no tactile feedback from the buttons (especially the + and - assist level control. The + button is very close to the M key and easily mistakenly operated. There is a huge difference between using these controls to go through the settings (which all works perfectly) and actually out riding.

There are 4 assist levels, 0 and 1-3. Unfortunately it is too easy to select 0 without realising it, since the only status display is a small digit in the top right of the display. I quite often find my self repeatedly selecting + or - and then working back from 3 or up from 0 to get the level I want. I would prefer a slight long press to drop from 1 to 0; I've even found when using walk assist, if your finger bounces off the key, 0 is selected.

I also have concerns about the fragility of the display, it projects a long way forward of the bars and well above them, and would easily be caught on vegetation or destroyed in a crash. On my bike, I can easily fit both the throttle and the controls between the brake and the handgrip, especially as I use one-finger braking on this bike (I fitted larger rotors - also, BTW this is the rear brake, which is the non-braindead side for a rear brake) and despite this, the display unit still seems vulnerable. It is interesting there are a few 3D printed protective covers for the Eggrider, so others seem to share my concern.

I would like to see a horizontally oriented unit, with the + and - keys to the left and the display positioned over the brake lever clamp, similar to the DZ41 displays for Bafang systems. DZ41 Display - Google Search

I'd also like to see more configurability of the display. I don't need to see the speed, since I use an Xoss G+ GPS for that, but I would like to see either the assist level in large digits, or the other motor parameters. Currently all of those are really too small to be very useful.

And since I don't think anyone is making one yet, how about a thin minimal display unit that can be stuck onto the top tube behind the headset? That would be a lot more discreet and less vulnerable. I'd be happy if it just had LED displays for assist and battery level or just showed a level gauge for each on an OLED display.

The OLED display however, is fantastic. It is very bright and easily visible in all conditions and when wearing polarised sunglasses. Really happy with that aspect, good job Topology and CYC. Overall, it is pretty good.

The speed sensor is easy to fit and comes with a cable that is slightly long, you'd need to have very long chainstays for it to be too short. I fixed my sensor in place with VB tape and zip ties, it is very secure.

My kit was supplied with no sensor magnet, CYC was extremely responsive and sent a magnet immediately; I was quite impressed, and they are supplying quite good magnets. In the meantime I had temporarily made my own magnet, using a couple of 8x1mm magnets inside a heatshrink cover, and zip tied to a spoke. This works surprisingly well, though it is important that you never slide the magnet away from where the sensor can see it; to do so would remove any speed restrictions and this would be foolhardy and could be dangerous, possibly cause injury or death. So whatever you do kids, don't remove that speed sensor magnet...

I wonder why we even need a speed sensor, since the wiring and installation could be simplified and tidier without it. When a GPS costs <$40NZD with its own case, charging port, controls, firmware, battery and display I would have thought it feasible to build GPS functionality into the control or display for cheaper than all the external hardware associated with the speed sensor.

Sorry if this is a bit long, but it may be of use to some people. I'd be interested what alternative displays are known to be compatible with the Photon system if anyone has experience with any. Same for throttles.