E-Bike Safety Survey Results

[iceskater3000]

Hey guys! I recently found this survey about whether e-bikes are safe for kids on another forum and thought the findings were pretty interesting so I thought I would share. Two key points that stood out to me were that 40% of parents believe e-bikes are less safe than regular bikes and most parents believe that 14 is the most appropriate age to purchase an e-bike for their child.

Honestly, I would have expected a higher percentage of parents to believe that e-bikes are less safe than regular bikes, especially given the speed at which some of these e-bikes can travel. I also felt as though 14 is quite a young age to ride an e-bike, but I suppose it depends on the maturity and responsibility of the child. Personally, I have seen too many close calls with young e-bikers in my neighborhood to justify buying one for a child, especially in their early teenage years.

Anyway, I just wanted to share this and open discussion about the findings to see if anyone else has come to similar conclusions in their own research or has strong opinions either way about buying an e-bike for their child.

 

[docw009]

Only parents who ride ebikes really understand the safety concerns, and they are best suited to decide if their younger kids can ride them.

In my state of Illinois, minimum age is 16 years to ebike, Nothing in the law about escooters though,

 

[iceskater3000]

Only parents who ride ebikes really understand the safety concerns, and they are best suited to decide if their younger kids can ride them.

In my state of Illinois, minimum age is 16 years to ebike, Nothing in the law about escooters though,

Agreed! Besides local and state laws, I think parents should have the ultimate say in whether their child is allowed to ride an e-bike. Interesting how there are no laws about e-scooters in Illinois though! I feel like they can be equally as dangerous for kids. I've been on a Bird scooter before and those things can go pretty fast!

 

[marvin78]

Our politicians are wanting to raise legal limit for ebikes to 14, just because of fatbikes. edit: I'm Dutch btw

The increase in popularity among young people especially on fatbikes, and the failing of preventing imports which don't adhere to EU law ( 25km/h ... eww ) caused such an uproar in actual accidents involving them, as well generating so much grief by their in traffic behavior, it dominated the news cycle for quite some time.

And there is something to be said for it. The increase in weight and speed, and people not suited to riding them, it was bound to happen. The youth went all in, right after our government mandated helmet for low speed mopeds which were exempt before.

It's a bit sad the way ebikes are governed anyway. Cars can go as fast as manufacturers want them to go, and it's the driver who is responsible for controlling the speed and adhering to the law. But ebikes suddenly just have to be regulated... the only real reason for this is simple: cars have license plates, and can be fined when breaking a law. Ebikes are not registered, have no license plates and can't get fined for going 5km over the speed limit.

Well that and our infrastructure design, where we tend to separate ebikes, and normal bikes, from motorized traffic ( even mopeds, within city limits ofc as those lack the top end to ride with cars outside of city limits ).

Anyways, I have nothing against limiting the age of when people can do stuff, if it's reasonable.

I don't think you need to be 14 to have an 'ebike' as in a real normal bike, with a very light 250w motor assisting up to 25km/h. It's only bikes which weigh a lot more as a normal bike, which alone brings with it so much more kinetic energy.. and then those same bikes, to counter this excessive weight, need much bigger motors.. which still increases weight even more so now you have all this weight and speed = more kinetic energy to cause mayhem in a crash. In my ideal world, we had individual categories for these, for instance I think the US has a lot more classifications, allowing up to 28mph which basically would be a moped here. I feel I should be able to ride an ebike at those speeds, I even have that whole AM category on my drivers license so why should I not be allowed to ride a bike at those same speeds using the same infrastructure.

But I don't want that kid from the corner to get on a 100lbs+ fatbike which does 45km/h+.

And then we have the option of: parents are best suited to decide what their kids are able to.. and that's the biggest farce there ever has been. No, they can't and no they should not because Pete here isn't less of a danger to others just because mommy and daddy said he was big enough to ride something. And when Pete there crashes into Jake from across the street, because he was going to fast and couldn't stop in time, Jake's parents are going to disagree pretty hard with Pete's parents and their concern not only for their own child but for other people's children. Things could get ugly, to many irresponsible people around to 'decide for themselves'.

*I wonder how the car people would feel if cars now only came with a 130km/h top speed ( highest speed limit here ). We could tell them it shouldn't matter, it's not like they constantly brake the law do they...

 

[iceskater3000]

Our politicians are wanting to raise legal limit for ebikes to 14, just because of fatbikes. edit: I'm Dutch btw

The increase in popularity among young people especially on fatbikes, and the failing of preventing imports which don't adhere to EU law ( 25km/h ... eww ) caused such an uproar in actual accidents involving them, as well generating so much grief by their in traffic behavior, it dominated the news cycle for quite some time.

And there is something to be said for it. The increase in weight and speed, and people not suited to riding them, it was bound to happen. The youth went all in, right after our government mandated helmet for low speed mopeds which were exempt before.

It's a bit sad the way ebikes are governed anyway. Cars can go as fast as manufacturers want them to go, and it's the driver who is responsible for controlling the speed and adhering to the law. But ebikes suddenly just have to be regulated... the only real reason for this is simple: cars have license plates, and can be fined when breaking a law. Ebikes are not registered, have no license plates and can't get fined for going 5km over the speed limit.

Well that and our infrastructure design, where we tend to separate ebikes, and normal bikes, from motorized traffic ( even mopeds, within city limits ofc as those lack the top end to ride with cars outside of city limits ).

Anyways, I have nothing against limiting the age of when people can do stuff, if it's reasonable.

I don't think you need to be 14 to have an 'ebike' as in a real normal bike, with a very light 250w motor assisting up to 25km/h. It's only bikes which weigh a lot more as a normal bike, which alone brings with it so much more kinetic energy.. and then those same bikes, to counter this excessive weight, need much bigger motors.. which still increases weight even more so now you have all this weight and speed = more kinetic energy to cause mayhem in a crash. In my ideal world, we had individual categories for these, for instance I think the US has a lot more classifications, allowing up to 28mph which basically would be a moped here. I feel I should be able to ride an ebike at those speeds, I even have that whole AM category on my drivers license so why should I not be allowed to ride a bike at those same speeds using the same infrastructure.

But I don't want that kid from the corner to get on a 100lbs+ fatbike which does 45km/h+.

And then we have the option of: parents are best suited to decide what their kids are able to.. and that's the biggest farce there ever has been. No, they can't and no they should not because Pete here isn't less of a danger to others just because mommy and daddy said he was big enough to ride something. And when Pete there crashes into Jake from across the street, because he was going to fast and couldn't stop in time, Jake's parents are going to disagree pretty hard with Pete's parents and their concern not only for their own child but for other people's children. Things could get ugly, to many irresponsible people around to 'decide for themselves'.

*I wonder how the car people would feel if cars now only came with a 130km/h top speed ( highest speed limit here ). We could tell them it shouldn't matter, it's not like they constantly brake the law do they...

Wow, thanks for sharing! It's interesting to see how the laws and perceptions surrounding e-bikes differ in the EU and the US. Good point there at the end that just because a parent "thinks" their child is suited to ride a bike doesn't mean they actually are...definitely something to consider!

 

[Az.]

In UK legal age is 14. My girls are 10 and I am confident they would handle e-bike without any problems.

 

[marvin78]

Wow, thanks for sharing! It's interesting to see how the laws and perceptions surrounding e-bikes differ in the EU and the US. Good point there at the end that just because a parent "thinks" their child is suited to ride a bike doesn't mean they actually are...definitely something to consider!

It's the same thing with us Europeans and you allowing 16 year old children drive cars.

It's pretty safe to say that teen drivers are over represented in your accident rates, yet you're fine with it it seems.

The whole reason we Dutch people got this safe infrastructure, is because we were NOT fine with it. Our fathers and mothers did not feel it was alright their children were dying because of cars ( we never put 16y old kids in them, but they still kill people ), and this resulted in our current infrastructure where I can get on my bike and get to almost all the schools, shopping centers, sport and leisure locations on my bike and almost never be put in a potential conflict with a car without that car being made aware they are the one's who have to yield ( Dutch 'fiets straat' which is basically a bicycle path where you're allowed with your car.. if you don't bother the cyclists ).

We're pretty pragmatic as a people, we realized pretty early that we can't fix the stupid in car drivers and since they are all controlling potential murder weapons a large part of them shouldn't actually be qualified to operate the best thing to keep others safe from them is to put cars on their own roads where if they feel like playing bumpercars they can do so with others cars and not cyclists.

This same pragmatism makes it hard at times though. As I said, our politicians at first wanted a 'fatbike' ban/limit... as we have lots of children on ebikes going to school by themselves even way younger then 14. But you can't compare that with the US because these children are using dedicated infrastructure for THEM not mixing with cars on their way. And those normal bikes aren't the issue, speeds and weights are managable. Fatbikes were specifically shown in statistics to be involved in more, and way more serious/consequential accidents ( due to increased kinetic energy ). But while banning/restricting access to fatbikes alone would be the most pragmatic, we then would get the endless discussion of what a fatbike would be.. we even had manufacturers already stating their next bikes would be 'fatbikes, but then just 'thinner' enough to not match what the law would state a fatbike to be. Off course, you could start regulating that to the letter, but then you would need to enforce it. Imagine traffic stops where they weigh your 'thinbike' .. yeah that's right it's not enforcable even if they regulate it.

So, the next pragmatic thing would be limiting all ebikes to a certain age. That is why it's 14 here, while I feel any kid who went through their 'bike exam' at school around age 10-11 ( yes, that's a tradition here where you get to ride around town and the teachers and parents are all hiding around town imagine a 'fishing man' with a rod with not line on it, and a guy on a bench with a newspaper, but it has holes where his eyes are and he's obviously there watching the kids manage some complex traffic situation ) should be able to ride the same bike they would normally with an added 250w motor limited to 25km/h. Because the kid by then is used to riding a bike with around that weight, at around those speeds.

Back to safety concerns: in 1971, 3300 Dutch people died because of tin cans on wheels, 500 of which were kids.

A campaign was started which was called: Stop Children's Murders.

If you'd ask me, lots of countries should have gotten these campaigns. But hey, when your politicians are ruled by whoever makes the greatest monetary contributions to their campaigns, you don't get things like universal repair or road safety for your children.

Instead they will cultivate you into thinking it's the parents responsibility to judge if their kids should be doing something ' which might not be safe, but hey we're just the government and we don't owe you anything except allowing you to pay taxes'.

Here that doesn't fly, we don't mind paying taxes we don't like it either but since we do we sure will make our government understand they do owe us something in return. Like safe infrastructure which doesn't kill people, without trying to shift the blame on individual users of an inherently broken design.

... or universal healthcare

It's not communism, and it keeps ceo's alive what's not to like.

 

[HY10]

My youngest started on a trailer bike before he could ride where he learnt to hang on and copy my movements
By the age of 6 he got his brothers hand me down 20" hub 48 v 350w
With his weight it was every bit as quick as the 1680w with my weight
He's 14 now and has a 52v 1000w mid drive
They don't leave home without shoes long pants gloves helmet
i had a 90cc honda when i was a 14yo

 

[offGridDownUnder]

I think that anyone of any age who is disabled should be granted license to operate an electric vehicle that is appropriate to the use case - a 'mobility scooter' that operates at pedestrian speeds, etc. as is currently implemented.

I think that no one should operate an electric vehicle - bicycle, tricycle, quad, etc. - on open public paths or roads unless that person has qualified for a Driver's license - to show they have the maturity to make a public promise about their responsibility to others.

If we think your are mature enough that we can take you at your word, then we'll take you at your word when you give it by signing your Driver's license. If you then break your own word, then we'll treat you as someone that breaks their own word (and you won't have that license any more), and we'll also change our ways of evaluating if you are mature enough so that we don't get fooled about that again by others.

Adults should not be excused from lying - 'adult' means able to shoulder responsibility to others.

Children should not be put into a position where they make promises they are not mature enough to keep - that should be off the table until they are mature enough..

 

[marvin78]

I think that anyone of any age who is disabled should be granted license to operate an electric vehicle that is appropriate to the use case - a 'mobility scooter' that operates at pedestrian speeds, etc. as is currently implemented.

I think that no one should operate an electric vehicle - bicycle, tricycle, quad, etc. - on open public paths or roads unless that person has qualified for a Driver's license - to show they have the maturity to make a public promise about their responsibility to others.

If we think your are mature enough that we can take you at your word, then we'll take you at your word when you give it by signing your Driver's license. If you then break your own word, then we'll treat you as someone that breaks their own word (and you won't have that license any more), and we'll also change our ways of evaluating if you are mature enough so that we don't get fooled about that again by others.

Adults should not be excused from lying - 'adult' means able to shoulder responsibility to others.

Children should not be put into a position where they make promises they are not mature enough to keep - that should be off the table until they are mature enough..

That sounds more like you're 'dissatisfied' with the behavior of some and want to punish everyone for it.

Ebikes are not cars, it's actually very hard to kill someone on a bike even a ( normal 'legal' ) ebike. Injuries, sure. Annoyances, for sure. But not death machines. The only real reason they might turn into those is when they are the victims of cars, not the other way around.

Children need to go to school. We want our kids to learn self reliance and don't want to stick them on some yellow school bus... and we don't give 16y old children cars.. talking about maturity check lol. Anyway, school density in most places is pretty acceptable, and lots of kids on ebikes now are imho just being a tad lazy ( 'in my days... ' and all that you know ) but we also have a lot of people living distances away from places we want our independent not driven around children to be able to go like schools or shops or just places for them to go and be. While it wouldn't be terrible for those kids who are just being a tad lazy, punishing them because you're not satisfied with the behavior of some other people feels rather harsh.

For me, I'm fine I got a driver license... for a moped... and I'm mid 40's lol I hope that's sufficient though. And I see to many people who do have a drivers license behave in ways in traffic which doesn't show there really would be a direct correlation between a pink slip, and non objectionable behavior.

Now if you just meant to say: I wish people would just behave better in traffic and threat other people with the same respect they would like to get themselves.. that's something I think we can all agree on.

But as a pragmatic Dutch person, I can tell you it's never going to happen and as such we try to come up with regulations to manage their behavior, which we then find to be impossible to sufficient degree to not upset the mothers and fathers of those who really suffered the most and as such we now build infrastructure designed to keep people safe. Yes, even for people in cars because we don't judge to harshly

Unlike your post above, which feels almost as if someone cut you off in traffic this morning?

 

[offGridDownUnder]

Children need to go to school.

I didn't introduce the idea 'punish'. You did. Speak for yourself and stand on what you say without pretending to speak for me.

Children will not grow healthy if they don't use their bodies. Children can ride bicycles.

 

[offGridDownUnder]

punish everyone

In reflection, this is a thread about the behaviour of children, and you have suggested I want to punish other people's children.

We don't require children to keep every promise they make as they are not mature enough to know the consequence of everything they say - we excuse them, and we don't give them access to everything they may want partly for that reason. In this light, it makes sense that we may also want to restrict children from having access to ebikes.

But you put in the idea that I want to punish other people's children, and there is nothing in what I wrote that says that - that's entirely from you.

You have overstepped your boundaries mate, and I want you to apologise as publicly as you wrote, here in this thread. You have no business suggesting I want to punish children, and I want to you clearly write that this was your thought, and not mine.

@neptronix

 

[neptronix]

I think you guys are capable of disagreeing respectfully if you try.

Too cooped up this season and haven't had your mental health rides for a while? i notice people get fiesty on this forum this time of year..

Take a breather! At the end of the day, neither of you are public policy makers in each other's country, so it's just two dude's opinions. This isn't football, this is fantasy football.

 

[marvin78]

I didn't introduce the idea 'punish'. You did. Speak for yourself and stand on what you say without pretending to speak for me.

Children will not grow healthy if they don't use their bodies. Children can ride bicycles.

You didn't want children on 'ebikes', or anything electric, saying everyone on them should have a license.

I think you guys are capable of disagreeing respectfully if you try.

I think there might be some culture issue here, I wasn't trying to be abrasive. The issue here is that where I live, we have a large group of children who use ebikes to go to school especial in more rural area's where the distance can become an issue for them to ride without some help.

In our Dutch culture, this is more acceptable then forcing them into a schoolbus service, or forcing mom and dad to shuttle them everywhere.

We don't require children to keep every promise they make as they are not mature enough to know the consequence of everything they say - we excuse them, and we don't give them access to everything they may want partly for that reason. In this light, it makes sense that we may also want to restrict children from having access to ebikes.

The issue we seem to have is that you see ebikes as something 'extra' which you can take away, while here it's an essential transportation means which if you would remove it would not only punish the users / children but also force society to adapt to not having our kids grow up independent.

As to safety concerns, where your argument of 'not being able to oversee consequences' comes into play, I already covered that with 'normal bike with 250w motor and 25km/h'. The added weight of a motor and battery do not turn ebikes into murder machines, and I haven't met the who rode a bike regularly who wouldn't be able to ride 25km/h... or much much faster. So to me, this issue has nothing to do with children having responsibilities they can't handle, if that were true we should take away their normal bikes and put them in the back of cars again.

You have overstepped your boundaries mate, and I want you to apologise as publicly as you wrote, here in this thread. You have no business suggesting I want to punish children, and I want to you clearly write that this was your thought, and not mine.

But taking away ebikes from children does punish them. Needlessly in my opinion. And off course that's my interpretation, and I explained how I got there. I apologize if this ruffled your feathers the wrong way, I normally get along great with aussies they are close to us Dutch people in telling things how they are and not getting offended by people with different opinions.

I hope that's enough for you, as it's as much as you're going to get.

Too cooped up this season and haven't had your mental health rides for a while? i notice people get fiesty on this forum this time of year..

I guess, as I said I did not act abrasive on purpose, in fact I hoped for an exact opposite reaction then getting him defensive. For me, arguing that ebikes shouldn't be accessible for children is just a no no. There are always other issues, like infrastructure, which make people claim cycling is dangerous or should require special consideration over being ferried in the back of a car. And a normal ebike isn't more dangerous to the point it should affect children's mobility.

Children will not grow healthy if they don't use their bodies. Children can ride bicycles.

Ow on this we do agree, and we only have to check the obesity rate's going up to acknowledge it as an issue. But I don't agree you solve this by restricting access for all children, even those who actually do benefit.

And that's old me talking, the old me who used to ride his normal bike for an hour to get to places I wanted to be, as a kid. But while that's 100% true, I often forget that I didn't really enjoy those rides always, and as such I probably didn't go as often as I would have liked to. And lots of children now, even on ebikes, ride so much more on their own it's still better as being inside most of that time.

In an ideal world.... but we don't life in an ideal world.

Just a little recoup btw: your idea when implemented punishes children, that doesn't mean it was your intent. It seems you want to get / keep them healthy by making them use those growing muscles more. But that doesn't change the way it influences others.

 

[offGridDownUnder]

It is only you that writes of punishment, but you are trying to say I am doing that. I expect an apology for that. Speak for yourself, not for me.

20 years ago children did not ride ebikes to school, and it was not a punishment.

 

[Az.]

Children will not grow healthy if they don't use their bodies. Children can ride bicycles.

You need to think in a context. We live in a very hilly terrain and hills do what they do... drain the joy from cycling. My girls are very disciplined and they do exactly what I say. When they go out on a ride they are always supervised and they are very confident riders. I am confident they would be safe on e-bikes and that they would benefit enormously. Unfortunately it is illegal here for little children to ride e-bikes.

 

[marvin78]

20 years ago children did not ride ebikes to school, and it was not a punishment.

20 years ago, many children relied on parents to get them to school which isn't what we should want in regard to their mental development. Taking away their ability to develop is a punishment to both them and the parents/schools transportation system.

You need to think in a context. We live in a very hilly terrain and hills do what they do... drain the joy from cycling. My girls are very disciplined and they do exactly what I say. When they go out on a ride they are always supervised and they are very confident riders. I am confident they would be safe on e-bikes and that they would benefit enormously.

Exactly. As I said, where I live our kids used to do a 'bicycle exam' at school, it's just part of our culture. So children are taught how to drive, or better said behave on a bike not just by parents but we expect it from ourselves as society. You will not find a child here who's unable to ride a bike, unless there is some physical impairment preventing it.

Now, where I live is the exact opposite of hilly, we're not called The Low Countries for no reason lol. But we do have lots of wind though, which is also not a fun experience to have to deal with on bikes constantly.

Unfortunately it is illegal here for little children to ride e-bikes.

Define 'little'. I don't think a 6 year old needs an ebike, because usually we don't take them on long rides yet. But even 6y olds ride bikes on the streets here, and I stand with what I said about I don't see an issue as long as the bike isn't weighing lots more or going faster then they would otherwise. For a 6y old, I don't think that would hold up even a small motor and the lightest battery would require better handling skills I don't think all 6y olds would have.

But once they reach 11-12 and are going to middle school, which usually are not as spread out as the schools below that, I can't see much of an issue anymore with children on ebikes. As long as their handling characteristics are closely mimicking a normal bike, I don't see any added dangers or negative sides besides 'less exercise'.

But that last part isn't as set in stone, because if we remove the ebikes from them, it's more likely they will spend additional time behind their pc's instead of being outside.

Tbh, I think I have a better endurance now then just before I switched to electric assistance. Because I ride more often ( and faster.. though providing less power, I am still stressing my aerobic system ). When doing that before, my knees would explode after a few miles.

Kids access to ebikes should always be in relation to the risks associated, and the benefits vs drawbacks. It's pretty clear that there can and will be differences in how people value those aspects against each other. I wish people would more easily accept that just because something matches nicely with one's own environment and culture, it doesn't mean it does everywhere.

Our cycling infra structure is considered one of the best in the world, but that also implies we have a cultural need which get's facilitated by it.

It is only you that writes of punishment, but you are trying to say I am doing that. I expect an apology for that. Speak for yourself, not for me.

I already answered to your accusation, and told you what I meant. You can repeat your demand for an apology, you're not getting more then what I already gave you.

Just a little recoup btw: your idea when implemented punishes children, that doesn't mean it was your intent. It seems you want to get / keep them healthy by making them use those growing muscles more. But that doesn't change the way it influences others.

Edit: btw, another reason I think removing access to ebikes for kids is bad: now they will want to get a moped when they turn 16....

Better to give them an ebike to get around on, until they are 18 and could start looking at a car if needed.

 

[Az.]

Define 'little'. I don't think a 6 year old needs an ebike, because usually we don't take them on long rides yet.

Below 14 as it is a legal age here to ride an e-bike.
My son went on a ride from Plymouth to Tavistock and back when he was 6 and he survived... barely
Son is 16 now and he doesn't want an e-bike. He never needed it, but my girls do. As parent I just know it.

I am really jealous of your infrastructure. Here it is not safe for adults to cycle on roads, so it is not safe for children too. It is deadly dangerous to be honest. Most drivers don't know how to turn left or right without risk of collision. Some don't even know how to drive straight on left side of the road.

Luckily there are some nice traffic free cycle routes around city where I can take my children to enjoy nature.

 

[marvin78]

We are really spoiled I know. 14 seems alright, it's what they decided on here as well and I can see the arguments even if I wouldn't have minded it being 12.

I hope your son's isn't like : I don't want no ebike, but gimme my moped so I don't need to pedal anymore


And yeah I say usually, not always. We have a little moms and pops mtb single track 'training loop' where I live and it's filled with 6-14y olds when the weather is good. But the loop is a little less then 2km total, which feels big I bet when you're six years old, still plenty of opportunity to stop somewhere and rest when needed. Or just stop and go home, as it's just a park near our residential zones. I do sometimes see those same kids near or on other tracks we got, and those are way longer.

But hey mountainbiking is so much safer then UK traffic I bet more kids would love long rides if they had the opportunity to do so without having to deal with unsafe infrastructure along the way.

 

[marty]

I see 4 year olds driving cars like this ↓ [lead acid]

I see 40 year old parents driving 6000 pound vehicles 1000 feet to the store to purchase 6 ounces of whatever.

Parents should not purchase a bicycle or any vehicle with a motor for children till they are 35. God gave us legs to walk / pedal. Parents and children should walk / pedal to get where they want to go. Exercise is good.

 

[marvin78]

That's both hilariously funny and sad at the same time.. the tiny sliver of universal truth hidden behind all that sarcasm