For transparency - chalo

Dang, Chalo. I like him. Even if he called my bike crappy and gave me a hard time about having motorcycle things (blinkers) on my ebike. There was even light name-calling. He doesn’t know me. I don’t really know him, but I’ve been around enough people to know it’s just part of his personality and I take what he says with a grain of salt, and maybe a bit of lime. I value his input and find his posts helpful, even entertaining at times. I’d hate to see him go out like this.
 
I actually like Chalo. The problem is that i can't get him to play well with the other kids no matter how nice or not nice i ask.

What really pisses me off is the overpoliticizing of things but what crosses the line from a forum standpoint is when i keep finding him insulting new members all over the forum.

I wish it worked out different honestly and i take no pleasure in my job here. I only post this in public because i know chalo has a few fans who are gonna ask.
 
Last edited:
I don't know that there are any real good options here, like he doesn't bother me, he's right about some things, wrong about others and yeah the tone is abrasive to say the least at times.

Now do I think people need to not be so sensitive to things random people say on the Internet but that still doesn't make it OK. There is a level of tone matching he doesn't have. Like if the person is new and being nice the expectation just like in real life is some semblance of friendliness. Being harsh to other people who you know are cool with it and are being harsh back is also fine but to start out like that several steps too far up the ladder I get why many people will not respond well to that. They feel like they are being attacked and then we have to calm things down by saying things like "you'll get used to him" which while is true shouldn't be needed.
 
After awhile one get's acclimated to abrasiveness of Chalo's posts.
Does the oyster not make a pearl from a grain of sand.
He has a few areas of expertise that provide a heck of a lot of value. You either take the good with the bad, or you weigh the good against the bad. Depends on the forum "philosophy". I'm glad I'm not an admin.
That said, there are occasions where I'm in a tired or grumpy mood, and he types what I'm thinking, but know not to type. Can't figure out if that's a pro or a con, but it's sort of a relief valve lol. He does have a way with words.
 
Dang, Chalo. I like him. Even if he called my bike crappy and gave me a hard time about having motorcycle things (blinkers) on my ebike. There was even light name-calling. He doesn’t know me. I don’t really know him, but I’ve been around enough people to know it’s just part of his personality and I take what he says with a grain of salt, and maybe a bit of lime. I value his input and find his posts helpful, even entertaining at times. I’d hate to see him go out like this.
They recently closed (for the second time since 1907), but my wife and I used to get late night (3:00AM) Chinese food in SF at a place called Sam Wo, in the original location. The waiter was Edsel (Ford) Fong, known as the world's rudest waiter. After being there a few times, we were totally used to him yelling at us for ordering the wrong or too much food. At that point, it was entertaining to see unknowing tourists from around the world being subject to his "normal" personality. Other tourist came just because the heard about him and willingly subjected themselves to his abuse and maybe get a picture. The barbeque pork rice noodle rolls were awesome.
 
They recently closed (for the second time since 1907), but my wife and I used to get late night (3:00AM) Chinese food in SF at a place called Sam Wo, in the original location. The waiter was Edsel (Ford) Fong, known as the world's rudest waiter. After being there a few times, we were totally used to him yelling at us for ordering the wrong or too much food. At that point, it was entertaining to see unknowing tourists from around the world being subject to his "normal" personality. Other tourist came just because the heard about him and willingly subjected themselves to his abuse and maybe get a picture. The barbeque pork rice noodle rolls were awesome.
lol. I’ve heard about restaurants like this. It’s definitely a thing. Maybe Chalos shop is like this too. I’d go there.

If you know what to expect, then not much damage is done. But if you don’t know, then you are in for a world of hurt.
 
I don't know that there are any real good options here, like he doesn't bother me, he's right about some things, wrong about others and yeah the tone is abrasive to say the least at times.

Now do I think people need to not be so sensitive to things random people say on the Internet but that still doesn't make it OK. There is a level of tone matching he doesn't have. Like if the person is new and being nice the expectation just like in real life is some semblance of friendliness. Being harsh to other people who you know are cool with it and are being harsh back is also fine but to start out like that several steps too far up the ladder I get why many people will not respond well to that. They feel like they are being attacked and then we have to calm things down by saying things like "you'll get used to him" which while is true shouldn't be needed.
I'm not sure if I'm the only one that remembers this, or suspected it at the time, but I recall Chalo being on a pretty long time out in the past. Might have been a year, but I recall it was long. Here's what I had speculated at the time. Shortly after the timeout started, there was someone else that started posting on the forum. The new member provided some great technical expertise to the forum. After a while I thought to myself, this guy is almost as knowledgeable as Chalo on the subjects he was posting on. Sort of a kinder and gentler Chalo. Anyway, after a long while, the timeout ended. Coincidentally, the other member stopped posting at around the same time. It's almost like the other member account may have been like training wheels or a test of some sort, and using an alias made it a blind test to the rest of the folks on the forum. Based on that thinking, I thought it was a brilliant way of maintaining the valuable technical knowledge here while adding some guardrails to lessen any negative impact to the forum, and without the history associated with the main member ID.

Anyway, all pure speculation. We all have our faults, and some faults aren't even our fault, just somethings nature laid on us. Some people are cut out for working the front counter, while others do their best working in the back room, preferring less customer contact. When a fault is not your fault, then there are opportunities, if trust is there, to provide prompt feedback as another member of the ES family when things start going off the rails. With trust and good intentions one could PM another member just say, "Hey buddy, is everything going OK with you? I've noticed some of your recent posts have been a bit over the top. Is there some way I can help?" just to raise awareness to the individual that may not see it happening themselves.

I've placed myself on a timeout a few times, and I've noticed others, including admins, who have done so as well. Sometimes it's good to take a self imposed break, so you can bring your positive game to the forum. Takes some self awareness, and sometimes takes others to raise it for you.
 
Yes, this was some years ago.
We knew immediately that Chalo came back at one point and tolerated the second account because the mean behavior isn't present.

In a moment of forgiveness i gave Chalo his name back and some time later the behavior worsened.

Current theory: Chalo is the evil twin of a highly valued forum member who cannot exist in this dimension at the same time as the good twin ( space-time continuum problem ).
 
Plenty of leeway has been given.
In the 3 short years of (me) visiting this forum it has been really upsetting watching the constant abusive behavior especially towards new members.
If this was a business or corporation Human Resources would have sent him home a long time ago.
Thanks neptronix for doing the hard job.
 
If this was a business or corporation Human Resources would have sent him home a long time ago.
Thanks neptronix for doing the hard job.
There’s that approach as well. HR is ultimately there to protect the business, like the admin job. Sort of like carry on luggage. If it don’t fit in the box, then you ain’t getting on the plane. It’s a hard decision that I’m glad I’m not part of.
 
Re: Awesome fork mod you can do or get from me soon
Gave him a ban last week for a long streak of rude behavior. A few days back the ban lifted and he started his abusive behavior on new members that ride bikes that he doesn't like.

I gave him a month of ban. Next time, it should be a year.
"Look at fork thread. Seems like Chalo don't like a certain fork? Then another member say -
"Get out of here. What an ass clown and d-bag bike snob. I’m not avoiding anything. I’m doing exactly what I want to do with purpose and determination and having great success, and if I wasn’t I would keep trying until I did; not wuss out and go back to a rigid fork. If this isn’t your bag then ignore it or keep your mouth shut, you obviously have no idea what you’re talking about in the realm of things that concern me if a 3” tire is enough suspension for whatever pussy shit you’re doing on your stupid snob approved bike, whatever it is. I couldn’t care less so go f#ck off dickwad""

Isn't name calling not allowed? Then to start this anti Chalo thread. Is that bullying?

Chalo is a most valuable source of bicycle information. I would say as good or better then Sheldon Brown.

Getting rid of Chalo is like destroying the whole library because you don't like one book.

In Marty's little world of bicycle mechanics. Grandma bought a tricycle. Mooncool MC 350 Electric Trike $699. Took 2 days to put it together. One world to describe. Nightmare. Will make a video of a seat post clamp designed by a idiot engineer with no sense of common sense. Think puncture wound, inner leg below crotch. Silly Grandma bought a second tricycle. YEBEI - ? Working on returning the Mooncool scrap metal. 99.9% sure the numerous problems with the Mooncool trike are not because of Marty's bicycle mechanic skills. Got 50 years experience playing with bicycles, wrenches, etc.

Now if only Dear Grandma would have read what Chalo wrote. I would not be wasting my time trying to polish a turd. Grandma please read before buying a tricycle.

Pay attention to the words of Chalo. I do.

Mooncool trikes are "tricycle shaped objects". They don't look too bad, but they are abominably cheap and janky. I've whipped quite a few of them into good operating condition, which I expect they'll retain for at least fifteen minutes of riding. Less if they sit outside all the time like most trikes do.

To be fair, there isn't really a "nice" version of granny trike available. But some are nastier than others. Husky, Sun, and Worksman are crude but reputable. That's if you want to do your own conversion. Lectric makes an e-trike that I would consider a much better bet than Mooncool.

Re: "fifteen minutes." You doing good Chalo. I could only get headlight connector terminals to stay attached for 15 seconds.
 
Isn't name calling not allowed? Then to start this anti Chalo thread. Is that bullying?
It's not an anti-Chalo thread, it's a transparency thread describing a potentially contentious decision the mods made. You're allowed to disagree with it, and in any case, Chalo isn't permanently banned.

Getting rid of Chalo is like destroying the whole library because you don't like one book.
Again, he wasn't "gotten rid of," only temporarily banned. In any case your metaphor is inaccurate. We're not getting rid of a library because of one book, we're temporarily taking one book off the shelf of an entire library because of it's inappropriate prelude to otherwise valuable content.
 
Sheldon was indeed quite knowledgeable.
More importantly, he shared his knowledge in a nice manner.
Showed no bias towards any technology, cycle style, ethnicity or towards any country.
Set a good safety example by wearing a helmet.
To sum up . . .
It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice. (John Templeton)
 
I went back and read the thread. This seems to me to be the worst that Chalo replied:

It’s great news for anyone with a $1000 “adventure bike” with shit suspension.

I think you meant to say, "shit bike with 'adventure' suspension".

-----------------

Perhaps there is worse in other recent threads - I don't read them all. I would advise a different approach to Chalo's phrasing in this instance, and thus in others generally.

I also think the OP said a lot worse in his replies. Is the OP banned, too? Or perhaps warned?
 
overpoliticizing of things
There is a very large number of extremely neurotic people online that were always on the edge, but completely lost it last November. There are whole online communities that turned into basically digital insane asylums. Like Reddit. It's definitely something most normal people don't want to be around.
 
"Look at fork thread. Seems like Chalo don't like a certain fork? Then another member say -
"Get out of here. What an ass clown and d-bag bike snob. I’m not avoiding anything. I’m doing exactly what I want to do with purpose and determination and having great success, and if I wasn’t I would keep trying until I did; not wuss out and go back to a rigid fork. If this isn’t your bag then ignore it or keep your mouth shut, you obviously have no idea what you’re talking about in the realm of things that concern me if a 3” tire is enough suspension for whatever pussy shit you’re doing on your stupid snob approved bike, whatever it is. I couldn’t care less so go f#ck off dickwad""

Isn't name calling not allowed? Then to start this anti Chalo thread. Is that bullying?
That’s an excellent point, but as a non admin, I can’t assume that the other poster hasn’t been admonished separately behind the scenes.
Getting rid of Chalo is like destroying the whole library because you don't like one book.
It’s sort of like the C volume from an encyclopedia is missing. There’s still lots of info left, but C usually the biggest volume, so there’s an impact.

I went back and read the thread. This seems to me to be the worst that Chalo replied...

Perhaps there is worse in other recent threads - I don't read them all. I would advise a different approach to Chalo's phrasing in this instance, and thus in others generally.

I also think the OP said a lot worse in his replies. Is the OP banned, too? Or perhaps warned?
I did the same thing, then took a look at the current forum rules.

It appears this:
Those are all fat tire forks. If you're using fat tires, you already have quite a bit of effective and tunable suspension.

Resulted in this, earlier in the thread. The actual post below quotes the above one, then goes on to state:
...
I don’t why there’s always some naysaying jack ass that has to shit all over everything no matter what it is but you’re way out of your depth here with one wrong assumption after another. I don’t know on what basis you’re so arrogant you can not read or comprehend a word I said and assume I failed so completely my next best option is no suspension. Jesus Christ.
...

I recall seeing this thread, and another like it, and purposefully avoided participating. I had nothing good to add that hadn't already been said, and luckily was able to avoid perpetrating the same type of transgression as Chalo lol.
 
To be clear I want Chalo here and I want him to share his knowledge and I'm even fine with him being snarky and even sometimes directly insulting but sometimes it's also uncalled for and often his sharing of knowledge is not productive.

Often because he's unwilling to see things from anybody else's perspective so information that may be totally valid from his experience is not valid for somebody else that isn't in his exact circumstances. Like in the case of the chain waxing thread where he numerous times just made fun of us for even trying to explore something that didn't line up with his opinions. Like it didn't bother me because I just ignore him but it really bogs down the productivity of the thread and makes people not want to talk about things when they don't want to challenge the "old guard". I've been new to forums before and it can be hard to start to actually participate when you don't want to be wrong and especially don't want confrontation.

Or like this response, which is literally the first response in the thread where a new user asked about controllers for a specific bike that happens to be a style of bike that Chalo doesn't like:
I had to look it up. Go for fentanyl, it's cheaper and safer.

And to be clear I don't want him to change his personality, like he doesn't have to see things form others perspectives if he doesn't want to. All I ask is that if you don't have anything productive to say, just don't say anything. Like even if he compared that guy's bike to fentanyl and then provided some good reasons why, that could be productive, sure. And it's not even that many posts, like idk 5%-10% but it only takes one to scare off someone who is looking for a friendly community or to start an unnecessary confrontational spiral into getting a thread locked.

I recall seeing this thread, and another like it, and purposefully avoided participating. I had nothing good to add that hadn't already been said, and luckily was able to avoid perpetrating the same type of transgression as Chalo lol.
I mean isn't that exactly it, if I feel I have nothing productive to add I don't and fair enough there are surely times my impulses get the better of me but I try to make that quite rare.
 
I have a lot to say in response but what i really want to do on this thread is listen as well. So i'll keep my response as short as i can make it.

It's important to me that both from the human resources department viewpoint and the forum enjoyer viewpoint are both able to be heard. So keep talking.


My current stance: i will take the good twin of Chalo but not the evil twin. I am open to negotiations, even a phone call. But past experience tells me to not have any hope for that.

My case in a nutshell is that Chalo has a years long record of disobeying our rules and being told to stop, but just continues. Because people like him, i spend a lot of time cleaning up after him and diffusing problems he creates, and i'm now very tired of giving him special treatment because the burden of controlling for Chalo has grown very large.

I wish i could let Chalo enjoyers feel the weight on my shoulders for a sec, but i don't expect that to happen because we have a big mismatch of what our perspective allows us to see and feel.

For that reason it's okay if we don't see eye to eye fully after the end of this discussion.

As for that thread i agree that OP did counter-escalate and that's maybe a little wrong but not worthy of an immediate ban. Our rule is to not ban someone for bad behavior without any warnings. So i said something in that thread. I appreciate being held accountable.
 
I mean isn't that exactly it, if I feel I have nothing productive to add I don't and fair enough there are surely times my impulses get the better of me but I try to make that quite rare.
If you really examine his posts, you’ll see that he doesn’t really attack people. His flowery language almost always is directed at equipment and concepts/ideas (e.g. regen, etc.). I disagree with him on a few topics, so we’ve had some discussion on them. I never felt personally attacked, no matter how much he’d point at how stupid, in his opinion, the issue or my opinion of the issue is. I have confidence in my viewpoint, and have no problem with other opinions no matter how informed or uninformed they are.
Some folks see attacking the equipment or concepts as personal attacks, unless the delivery is sugar coated. Others come to the forum feeling they are fully informed, and quickly get defensive when anything is pointed out to the contrary. Some people are triggered by who knows what (like the guy that went off on amberwolf several months ago). I don’t like personal attacks, but I’m quite OK with someone saying my idea is dumb, or I bought the wrong piece of crap. And opinions change over time. After recently going back to rim brakes, I had to admit Chalo was right. I still like my 4 piston calipers, but I can’t deny the stopping power and fade resistance of the rim brakes.
I’m not sure which rules he broke, or if it just feels like he’s broken the rules. Maybe it’s this:
“When you can't help but zap some stupidity, be kind as possible in calling it out and explaining why.“
 
Back
Top