For transparency - chalo

[neptronix]

For the record a lot of Chalo's most offensive messages are removed from public view and unless you are not part of the moderator team, you're not aware of the worst of it.

I can tell you that over the last few years we get a lot of reports from users about Chalo, more than anyone on this website lately. For every person that enjoys him, i'd say there might be someone who doesn't.

It's hard to get a count of people of people who stopped using this website due to an initial very bad encounter with Chalo, but i bet the number is higher than the 2 i can confirm.

In the last 2 years i've taken a proactive approach and to keep the peace around him. What changed is my willingness to continue doing that.

Here is the list of reports about him from other members over the last few years. In 2025, i've cleaned up around him a lot and this has resulted in less reports. But this requires that i watch out for him like a hawk. Most of the violations this year are related to politics, not bullying new members.



Anyway, please continue

 

[PaPaSteve]

neptronix, no doubt your list could be much longer.
As someone who participates in several other forums the standard number one engagement protocol among them all is "be nice".
Snarky, directly insulting comments are not traits I would tolerate in a personal face to face conversation regardless of the topic.
Being a former shop manager I found anyone doing so can gravely effect team moral and production output.
Anyways, this is my continue

 

[dominik h]

In the last 2 years i've taken a proactive approach and to keep the peace around him.

I read a lot of threads in which I do not write anything, sometimes there is a lot of good information in Chalo's post, but often I stop reading the thread when I find he is to aggressive or rude.

In a lot of other forums people get banned for less.

For me a technical forum is to share and get informations, to ask or answer questions, post ideas or what I have built and read what others have done or built.
There is no need to be rude.

I would not invest a single minute of my time to clean the mess from others in a technical forum.

 

[harrisonpatm]

The mods here aren't perfect, and @neptronix started this thread specifically because we want to be transparent in a effort to do a better job. For example, we have someone starting to bring up contentious comments in this thread, purely to start s*&%, and I want to pay attention to what several people in this thread have mentioned: that other users besides Chalo are controversial and we should pay attention to those as well. (@marty @offGridDownUnder and I think @Comrade have brought up this kind of sentiment)

You're right. We're not perfect, but we should make every effort to be fair and unbiased as we can, we can always be doing a better job, and that includes listening to feedback. Please continue to report threads you feel are out of line or inappropriate.

 

[gromike]

Oh Gawd! I could list a few for the banned list too, though I might be on someone's banned list myself.

 

[neptronix]

Reporting in.

I posted some clarifications on where we're at in regards to hot political language:
Rules of the off topic section.
Spoiler alert: it's basically the same.

Please direct any thoughts on that topic to that thread.


Also like last time, the court of public opinion is mixed but most favor chalo.
If i posted an itemized list of stuff Chalo posted that we removed, i think the balance would swing.

But the purpose of the thread is not to:

So i'm not going to do that.

I took a breather and read what everyone posted today because i woke up slightly less angry.
I'm sorry but i haven't read anything that has swung my opinion more than a few millimeters.

My problems with Chalo's behavior are the same and i don't think that we as moderators are moderating this forum correctly if we give one person an exception to the rules, especially one who continues to try to push that exception farther and farther and refuses to listen to the moderator staff.

That's how we get a dauntless 2.0 or a John in CR 2.0

HR is still livid about the matter.



Coincidentally.

I have forgiven Chalo once before, and got burned again.
I am too angry about that at the moment to make a final decision with a clear mind.

So lemme get more feedback and i will read it with a cooler head later.

*hands the forum back the mic*

 

[Epithemeus]

Mostly a lurker rarely a poster but I will say one thing is abundantly clear, Neptronix and the other moderators clearly are passionate and work hard to be reasonable and make this place great. So I really hope that whatever decision they make we respect it even if we don't agree.

That being said, if opinions are being gathered. I favour shape up or ship out. While everybody gets a bit of grace it's ultimately not the moderators job to continually filter someone's content. As much as his content is valuable and has helped me more than a few times, I value kindness and respect far more.

 

[scianiac]

If you really examine his posts, you’ll see that he doesn’t really attack people. His flowery language almost always is directed at equipment and concepts/ideas (e.g. regen, etc.). I disagree with him on a few topics, so we’ve had some discussion on them. I never felt personally attacked, no matter how much he’d point at how stupid, in his opinion, the issue or my opinion of the issue is. I have confidence in my viewpoint, and have no problem with other opinions no matter how informed or uninformed they are.
Some folks see attacking the equipment or concepts as personal attacks, unless the delivery is sugar coated. Others come to the forum feeling they are fully informed, and quickly get defensive when anything is pointed out to the contrary. Some people are triggered by who knows what (like the guy that went off on amberwolf several months ago). I don’t like personal attacks, but I’m quite OK with someone saying my idea is dumb, or I bought the wrong piece of crap. And opinions change over time. After recently going back to rim brakes, I had to admit Chalo was right. I still like my 4 piston calipers, but I can’t deny the stopping power and fade resistance of the rim brakes.
I’m not sure which rules he broke, or if it just feels like he’s broken the rules. Maybe it’s this:
“When you can't help but zap some stupidity, be kind as possible in calling it out and explaining why.“

Fair enough, I think maybe that is why he doesn't bother me and maybe I am in the enjoyer camp sometimes but as I pointed out it's the attacking equipment, concepts, etc and then not providing any reasoning, that feels a lot more like a personal attack than you're wrong and here is why you are wrong. One is productive one is not.

And yeah I do disagree with him on some subjects but never wholly, that is I like my disc brakes but I understand why they are better for me and they are not the best in all cases for sure and I'm willing to defend and discuss that. Chalo generally refuses to even consider the other side, that someone else could be right and things are not as black and white as his world. And that is unproductive, frustrating, and makes people not want to even engage in real discussion.

Even still nobody has to consider someone else's opinion and discuss accordingly but I think it is not that unreasonable to ask that if you are going to shit on somebody else's choices, regardless how bad or good they are you should at least provide some reason why so you are adding to the discussion in a productive way. And many times Chalo but others too do this but more recently it seems that Chalo and others also don't and just leave unproductive comments about how XYZ is trash and implying someone is stupid for even wanting to talk about it.

It's not the tone even that bothers me, I'm fine with an aggressive tone backed up with reason, I even like some snark but without real discussion it's just not productive, still hurts people since it's more directly insulting and makes people not want to participate.

I suppose some of this is inevitable as a forum ages and the world changes, small EVs are not the same as they were 10 years ago and while I do actually like the "old style" stuff more I understand there are lots of new stuff from cheap store bought pre-mades, expensive EMTBs, fast scooters, surrons, modded mini bikes, fat tire bikes, etc. I'm not going to yuck anybody's yum but I will talk about them and I will point disadvantages of them where I see them and discuss accordingly.

 

[hillslayer@]

The mods here aren't perfect, and @neptronix started this thread specifically because we want to be transparent in a effort to do a better job. For example, we have someone starting to bring up contentious comments in this thread, purely to start s*&%, and I want to pay attention to what several people in this thread have mentioned: that other users besides Chalo are controversial and we should pay attention to those as well. (@marty [ou assume USER=80404]@offGridDownUnder[/USER] and I think @Comrade have brought up this kind of sentiment)

You're right. We're not perfect, but we should make every effort to be fair and unbiased as we can, we can always be doing a better job, and that includes listening to feedback. Please continue to report threads you feel are out of line or inappropriate.

You have no idea what reason someone posts a comment for you assume way to much. I think there could be a problem with some mods trying to stir things up when nothing was happening.

 

[raylo32]

i have gotten used to him and take the good and ignore the bad. I can dis him one day and like a post of his the next. No sweat. To me he isn't so abrasive and abusive as a retro grouch curmudgeon, and he knows a lot about bikes. But I can see the dilemma the mods are in regarding newbies who might not understand.

 

[The Toecutter]

Any chance of Dauntless being allowed back?

 

[E-HP]

You have no idea what reason someone posts a comment for you assume way to much.

A couple thoughts.
I've been trying to judge less and forgive more as general principals. If you've ever seen the movie "As Good As It Gets", I knew a guy at work that reminded me of the character Jack Nicholson plays. I suspect he suffered from a similar condition. He always seemed grumpy, and a lot of the time, the words he'd use were caustic. He had very valuable knowledge, so I'd find ways to work with him. I realized over time that his actual character was far from what you'd conclude based on interactions. Most of his free time was spent helping the needy and seniors, delivering meals, and taking care of them and providing some human interactions. On balance, and by any measure, he was a much better human being than I, by his actions, although not always by his words. I learned not to judge a book by it's cover, and trying to see the whole person, one of the points of the movie.

Last week, I was watching an episode of Ted Lasso with my wife. In the locker room, one of the soccer players say "we have to stop making mistakes!" to which another player, Jan, says "I didn't make any mistakes, only you made mistakes". The locker room goes quiet, until another player explains, "Jan is not being rude, he's just being Dutch", at which point everyone relaxed, nods their heads and smiled (satisfied that it was just a cultural communication difference, and not meant to be rude). With context, the intent meant more than the words. I had a similar experience at work when I was younger. There was one guy that I got along with fine, but everyone else disliked. When I was in school, I had a roommate that came from the same culture, so I got used to it after a year. Without familiarity with the culture, an American would find his communication style off putting, or even rude. One day, when he wasn't at work, I pulled the whole team together and explained how his communication style was a cultural difference, and some insights into why it was that way. It just took the new kid on the team, raising that small amount of awareness to make a difference, since after that, he was part of the team and everyone worked and joked with the guy, and got along like any other team member.

These are just explanations about why I am bothered less by the words used, assume good intentions, and look for the beneficial content. It's funny how consciously judging less can really help to maintain a more positive outlook. I don't even get amped up over super slow grocery checkers anymore lol.

 

[PaPaSteve]

The "Bambi rule," also known as "Thumper's Rule," is a moral adage popularized by the character Thumper in Disney's 1942 animated film Bambi, which states: "If you can't say something nice, don't say nothing at all".
This rule encourages kindness and consideration in communication, especially when expressing opinions to others.

 

[neptronix]

So i took a breath and thought about it.
Opinions seem more mixed now.

I get that some of you have a thick skin that can take a good grating, but i don't see why a thick one should be required to make use of this forum.

I'm not any less mad. The temporary break in having to continually watch, interject, and sometimes delete posts in threads Chalo is posting in has made me realize how much work i put in to control for his negative effects.
Over a long period of time, you don't feel the weight on your shoulders until it's been relieved.

I realize now i am self sacrificing and put this load on my shoulders of playing chalo tamer primarily to make you guys happy.

Other members also participate in controlling for Chalo to a lesser degree, and i think the person responsible for Chalo's behavior should ultimately be Chalo's.

I don't think my ask to be less of a jerk to new people is unreasonable. So.. the ball is in his court when he's back.

Any chance of Dauntless being allowed back?

No chance.

One day, when he wasn't at work, I pulled the whole team together and explained how his communication style was a cultural difference, and some insights into why it was that way. It just took the new kid on the team, raising that small amount of awareness to make a difference, since after that, he was part of the team and everyone worked and joked with the guy, and got along like any other team member.

Too bad we can't do that here. It's new people who chalo is the problem for. In the instance of relating it to your workplace, it would be more like putting this crass guy in front of new customers. You constantly have to explain to customers to not take him too seriously, and you see him get heated with a customer over nonsense and going on communist rants, and you run around diffusing him, and he also won't listen to any requests to act different.

In this virtual business, we can't send crass guy to the back where the negative effects can be limited.
For sure the boss fires him.

Hey, if we could have a 'full house moment', i'll take it. I just don't see how we could resolve the problem.

 

[scianiac]

Maybe this is a terrible idea for some issue I don't see and maybe it would be too hard to implement. I assume now the report button on a post just flags it for the mods and then have to deal with it manually and while the actual function of pressing the buttons is probably pretty quick the mental load of deciding if they should, considering the "HR" implications and so on is the real cost here. So what if somebody can be put on probation where if their post gets more than 3 or whatever number report clicks it's automatically removed. Taking some of the load off of the mods and making the response faster but also perhaps more importantly giving the mods something between a temporary ban and a warning to.

This is all a delicate balance for sure, we want different opinions to be heard, debate, discussion, etc just in a range of tone that makes everybody want to participate. I don't think we have to be all hyper polite rainbows and sunshine either.

 

[neptronix]

We get reports on chalo already. And i intervene in a few cases before people see the post, because i am constantly watching for him.

Without my intervention, i think we'd get more reports, and he would cross the new line.

I would only be willing to make a deal like that if the other party shows a willingness to budge and understands why certain behaviors are bad for the forum.

 

[slaphappygamer]

So what if somebody can be put on probation where if their post gets more than 3 or whatever number report clicks it's automatically removed.

People might be able to manipulate that and report users they don’t like. It’s not hard to make another account to rack up the reports on a post. I’m not saying this is something I would do or that it would even work, but it could be the other edge of the blade.

 

[scianiac]

People might be able to manipulate that and report users they don’t like. It’s not hard to make another account to rack up the reports on a post. I’m not saying this is something I would do or that it would even work, but it could be the other edge of the blade.

I thought about that which is why it only does that if the user's status has been set to probation by an admin for previous behavior and this status could be only known to the user or even only known to the moderator. I guess someone who is really dedicated could make multiple accounts and then test it. Maybe it only counts reports from users with over 20 posts or something. The probation status is not supposed to be used that often, you already have to be being a problem long before you get to that stage, which is why it would probably be too much work to implement anyway. I just feel for nep, it sucks having to read posts that get flagged and make judgment calls on them, just a lot of not fun mental load or at least I know I'm terrible at that type of thing, maybe some people are good at it idk.

 

[neptronix]

I think that would get abused
Users with less than 20 posts are who he negatively affects the most. So the mechanic isn't a fair vote.

I'd guess most people are used to getting abraded by chalo by 100 posts on average and have developed unrustleable jimmies:

 

[WaverlyCycles]

It's my impression that Chalo has "grand poobah syndrome". There is at least one long time poster on every online forum who is afflicted. There is no cure.

It's hard to ban sufferers of grand poobah syndrome because they tend to have a lot of niche topical knowledge, but it's also hard not to ban them because they definitely keep newer people from participating.

For as long as internet forums have been around, grand poobah syndrome has been a problem. There are no good solutions.

I've seen some forums embrace grand poobah syndrome by giving a special title to those who are afflicted with the disease. The title is basically a lighthearted disclaimer that lets newer participants know not to take abrasive posts from that poster too seriously. Problem is that we're openly discussing this in regards to singling one person out. So I'm not sure that a special label for Chalo in particular would be Kosher.

 

[marty]

Idea? Make Chalo a moderator. That way he could moderate him self. Think this would work. Try it. As Fechter say "One test is worth a thousand opinions"

 

[marty]

Any chance of Dauntless being allowed back?

Yes please! Also Reid Welch and morph999. Wondering if morph999 was a real person or some strange psychological psychology experiment?

 

[The Toecutter]

Yes please! Also Reid Welch and morph999. Wondering if morph999 was a real person or some strange psychological psychology experiment?

Dauntless was at least real. He was a jerk to me when I was first posting here, but he kind of grew on me over time, mostly because he shared knowledge of a lot of obscure vehicles.

He wasn't a bad dude, just very opinionated and highly abrasive. WAY moreso than Chalo.

 

[neptronix]

I saw some good in dauntless but there was just too much bad to accompany it.
He is Exhibit A on how 1 apple could gradually spoil the entire bunch.

We have had many sufferers of GP syndrome over the years here.

 

[onitubai]

Forum lurker chiming in... This isn't the one reason I don't participate on this forum, but I'd be lying if I said it's not an influence.

I seriously wrote ublock origin rules that blocks his posts. I haven't seen one in years. It's made the place tolerably less tedious to read even though it's often still obvious what's going on. The tone of threads can change to some degree towards awkwardly defensive or apologetic or avoidant.

The most important part of a forum is its culture. Knowledge is nice, but community comes first in a forum, otherwise what's even the point of having a forum.