For transparency - chalo
- Thread starter neptronix
- Start date
Slightly off-topic, but why is this allowed? Do users not give up ownership to their content as a condition of using the forum? While this specific user might not have contributed much to the collective body of knowledge, in general giving that ability to users seems counterproductive to the concept of online forums, which is aggregating and permanently archiving knowledge.
Yes, it was offroad 20 inch wheel man.
It's allowed from a technology perspective because we let people edit their threads anytime.
This is a crucial ability for people who like to maintain the first post in a build thread, and other cases.
So if someone wants to hand crank deleting their content, they can.
But the effort is proportional to how much posting they've done.
We consider it vandalism because it damages threads for readers going forward. It can totally screw the continuity of a thread up.
Of those selecting he dramatic exit option, only one contributed a notable amount of good content or useful discussion. We manually restored what was important to keep thread continuity in that case. Otherwise the user typically has little to no useful content, so the defacement doesn't matter. It's a case by case basis.
We have about 1 user a year doing this.
In this case, the thread looks awful to the outside world. Some guy posts a novel fork modification and throughout the thread, and he gets dunked on.
I don't mind losing it because it looks extremely bad. It's a scarecrow against people who have new ideas to contribute. The idea maybe actually good, it just wasn't given a chance.
I decided to move it to 'the dumpster', mostly restored, because it's a good example of how a thread shouldn't go on this forum.
Thread link for reference: Lectric XP suspension fork increase modification [ retitled ]
It's allowed from a technology perspective because we let people edit their threads anytime.
This is a crucial ability for people who like to maintain the first post in a build thread, and other cases.
So if someone wants to hand crank deleting their content, they can.
But the effort is proportional to how much posting they've done.
We consider it vandalism because it damages threads for readers going forward. It can totally screw the continuity of a thread up.
Of those selecting he dramatic exit option, only one contributed a notable amount of good content or useful discussion. We manually restored what was important to keep thread continuity in that case. Otherwise the user typically has little to no useful content, so the defacement doesn't matter. It's a case by case basis.
We have about 1 user a year doing this.
In this case, the thread looks awful to the outside world. Some guy posts a novel fork modification and throughout the thread, and he gets dunked on.
I don't mind losing it because it looks extremely bad. It's a scarecrow against people who have new ideas to contribute. The idea maybe actually good, it just wasn't given a chance.
I decided to move it to 'the dumpster', mostly restored, because it's a good example of how a thread shouldn't go on this forum.
Thread link for reference: Lectric XP suspension fork increase modification [ retitled ]
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scianiac
10 kW
- Joined
- Oct 24, 2018
- Messages
- 936
I think that guy who left is in a weird way exactly my thoughts on Chalo, it's not really the tone it's the content, or lack thereof. I was perfectly happy to talk to that guy about his crazy ideas and even though I wouldn't do what he was doing as long as he wants to talk about them I'm willing to be open, listen and discuss in a reasonable manner. As soon as he responded to somebody with a post that contained no content and was just name calling, I called him out on it in a I think the nicest way I could have.
I don't care if Chalo has a nasty tone towards some things as long as it's also adding to the discussion with content, if he wants to explain over and over again the advantages of rim brakes, narrow wheels, hub motors, rigid forks and the disadvantges of fatbikes, scooters, cars, disc brakes, pre-builts, etc and do it all in a snarky tone by all means. But just insulting those things and people who want to talk about them with no discussion is what really kills threads and upsets people because well discussion is the point of a forum.
The exception would be somebody who is just spouting outright lies as fact constantly. Opinions, unconvential ideas, theories, etc all fine.
I don't care if Chalo has a nasty tone towards some things as long as it's also adding to the discussion with content, if he wants to explain over and over again the advantages of rim brakes, narrow wheels, hub motors, rigid forks and the disadvantges of fatbikes, scooters, cars, disc brakes, pre-builts, etc and do it all in a snarky tone by all means. But just insulting those things and people who want to talk about them with no discussion is what really kills threads and upsets people because well discussion is the point of a forum.
The exception would be somebody who is just spouting outright lies as fact constantly. Opinions, unconvential ideas, theories, etc all fine.
raylo32
100 kW
Chalo can be abrasive but I actually feel some of his pain. IMO he is correct about many of the things listed above, but many of the arguments that proponents for other things make often are not entirely or even minimally logical, but intended to merely justify their choices. Chalo has a problem with that. I also frequently have a problem with that. It's fine to argue plusses and minuses and tech details, and it is fine to argue that one is willing to accept some downside to new or different tech because that is your preference, or because your use case does not invoke that negative. But when you twist things around to try to deny the negatives simply to justify a choice, that is another matter. IMO, that is some of what drives Chalo to get abrasive. He probably needs to learn that most times it's best to just let it go.
Thankfully, it is possible to restore critical information if necessary.
WaverlyCycles
10 mW
Hey, I hope you let Chalo back in. I need his help debating the chain waxers!
i don't even know why this stirs so many people up.
no, waxing chains is not some huge revolutionary thing that everybody needs to do.
yes, it can maximize periods between maintenance for people who ride in harsh weather.
that should be the end of it!
Because what fun is it if we can't argue something to death and then keep arguing about it long after the point was made, unmade, proven, discredited, etc?
WaverlyCycles
10 mW
Because what fun is it if we can't argue something to death and then keep arguing about it long after the point was made, unmade, proven, discredited, etc?
View attachment 374929
I agree to some extent, but also much of bike & e-bike discourse is excruciating exhausting. Worse than Ford vs. Chevy discourse and even NIMBYs at zoning meetings.
I'll have to do my own research, but it might even be worse than the people who think that the earth is round.
raylo32
100 kW
When we were grade school kids on the bus in FL we'd argue about what the best outboard boat motors were... Mercury vs Johnson vs Evinrude. Even though at the time we were too poor to even own a boat!
Lately I have been arguing with some guys on a EV forum about the relative ease of doing road trips in ICE vs EV. I totally agree with them that there are some great EVs and I wish I could justify one and you CAN road trip them. But when they try to tell me that for this 1000 mile trip that 5 refueling stops and 8 hours total charging time with charging stations that you need to find and plan ahead is the same level of convenience as my current ICE vehicle on the same trip that requires only one 5 minute gas stop literally just about anywhere, well, we're gonna argue. I have no problem if they just say that the tradeoff is a choice, but when you start to hear the ridiculous reasons why there supposedly is no tradeoff. Sheesh. This is very similar to the wax thing. But it does get exhausting and I just let it go.
Lately I have been arguing with some guys on a EV forum about the relative ease of doing road trips in ICE vs EV. I totally agree with them that there are some great EVs and I wish I could justify one and you CAN road trip them. But when they try to tell me that for this 1000 mile trip that 5 refueling stops and 8 hours total charging time with charging stations that you need to find and plan ahead is the same level of convenience as my current ICE vehicle on the same trip that requires only one 5 minute gas stop literally just about anywhere, well, we're gonna argue. I have no problem if they just say that the tradeoff is a choice, but when you start to hear the ridiculous reasons why there supposedly is no tradeoff. Sheesh. This is very similar to the wax thing. But it does get exhausting and I just let it go.
I agree to some extent, but also much of bike & e-bike discourse is excruciating exhausting. Worse than Ford vs. Chevy discourse and even NIMBYs at zoning meetings.
I'll have to do my own research, but it might even be worse than the people who think that the earth is round.
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Would you settle for #cheapAmberwolf ?I guess i wouldn't even know what a BSO is(, and that i own one(disc brakes included!
#freeChalo
offGridDownUnder
100 kW
... and he handles it beautifully.
(Yes, I know that was not helpful. I did enjoy it though.)
The Toecutter
100 kW
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2015
- Messages
- 1,589
I don't think Chalo is being intentionally abrasive, so much as it is that he doesn't have much tolerance for what he perceives as foolishness. He's always made it known when he thought the things I've said were absurd, silly, or hilarious to him, in ways that might be construed as disrespectful on his part, but I never saw it that way. I saw his comments as valuable advice, whether I agreed with them or not. Before I ever first posted on this site 10 years ago, I had never built a bike of any kind and never had much success working on my own bike at the time. It was Chalo who I asked for advice on some very basic things(index shifters, cassettes, ect.), and he provided it without judgement or vitriol, and it was very much worth while as the portions of his advice that I took steered me in the right direction and allowed me to get something working. For that I'm grateful.
Hillhater
100 TW
That is completely ass backwards !
..its more like banning one book in order to stop it destroying the whole library
raylo32
100 kW
IDK... I have disagreed with him on some stuff where he has come off very gruff, mostly when he is really retro grouchy or when he disses the cheap Chinese motors, which IMO work fairly well for what they are. But I never once thought he should have been banned for his tone. Maybe I missed some other instances that were more offensive.
marty
10 MW
I know better then to try to argue with Hillhater.
I love Hills! Love going down hills on a bicycle. Enjoy the challenge of going up hills. That's why God made gears. Where I live we have no hills. Land of flat. I be moving to the mountains
marty
10 MW
Nep type on Jul 21, 2025. We need Chalo NOW! Could you please release Chalo. How about a pardon?
Chalo is a important part of the team here.
We got E-HP our controller expert. TommyCat the throttle man. Amberwolf master of why it don't work. We need a wheel man! I miss John in CR the motor expert.
Whatever happened to John in CR
As the title, it's been a few years since I was last here and the forum layout is more modern, but whatever happened to John in CR? No posts for nearly three years. Does anyone know where I can get hold of some hubmonsters?
endless-sphere.com
Copy from:
Need help with my first wheel build - for 20 inch fat DD rear hub
Hey guys. I've found a nice DD hub motor I am going to order to try out. Seems like a good alternative to the Grin Max45 I have on order for my main bike. Going to build this for my backup bike Build #2. My bike's got 20x4.0 inch, 82mm wide wheels on it. So I'm looking for a rim to order...
endless-sphere.com
Raylo, i delete a lot of stuff. We have a number of metrics from the board about 'most ignored people' and 'most reported' and he's a chart topper, and seeing this feedback from members makes me think for each member who likes him, there's another one who doesn't. He's also a chart topper in knowledge ( i don't have a metric for that - but i doubt many would disagree )
Chalo has a few days left on his ban.
I'd be happy to have him back long term if he can turn down the heat on politics and on newbies / people who operate vehicles he doesn't like.
I don't think that's too much to ask and hope he's amenable to change.
Chalo has a few days left on his ban.
I'd be happy to have him back long term if he can turn down the heat on politics and on newbies / people who operate vehicles he doesn't like.
I don't think that's too much to ask and hope he's amenable to change.
offGridDownUnder
100 kW
@neptronix I just tried to message @Chalo. The machinery won't permit me to do that. Please post when the ban is over so I will know when I can. Thanks.
marty
10 MW
On Jul 21, 2025 Neptronix wrote:
On Aug 18, 2025 Neptronix wrote:
I counted days on my calendar. Form Jul 21 to Aug 24 is 35 days. 35 days seems like a long month?
Ask Google [how many days in a month]
1 Month = 30.4167 Day.
On Aug 18, 2025 Neptronix wrote:
I counted days on my calendar. Form Jul 21 to Aug 24 is 35 days. 35 days seems like a long month?
Ask Google [how many days in a month]
1 Month = 30.4167 Day.
Well, unfortunately Chalo is permanently banned.
Previously, i extended a olive branch by moving this thread to a non viewable area when Chalo returned. I told him a few times i'm open and interested to talks to improve the relationship.
None of that was responded to. Instead, i kept getting passive aggressive comments designed to irritate me.
I'm moving this thread back to public view for some conclusion.
Here's how he got banned.
While reprimanding someone for being verbally abusive the second time, he decided to join in with the verbal abuse, in a way that's intended to irritate me also.
“White” Hydrogen ?
This is the exact thing he got banned twice for this year. And it's clear to him i expected him to stop doing that.
This time, i keep the comment up for public view because in the past i usually cleaned up after Chalo without comment to keep the forum peaceful. I did this because in a majority of cases, these were flamewar starters. In the last 2 years, the problem has been particularly bad and i was deleting a few really bad posts per month.
I did everything i could think of to try to get Chalo to stop this. Chalo still believed he's above the rules and can either ignore or shove members of the moderator team around. I think this expectation was built because historically, we let Chalo get away with being extra spicy. But as of recent we have a give an inch, take a mile situation happening with that special leniency..
It's a ridiculous way to go out, and i feel burned for giving him a third chance.
I don't like having to be the head of forum corrections today. I wish things went differently.
Chalo had many great posts over the years. He will be missed by many.
Please join me in pouring one out for our homey:
Previously, i extended a olive branch by moving this thread to a non viewable area when Chalo returned. I told him a few times i'm open and interested to talks to improve the relationship.
None of that was responded to. Instead, i kept getting passive aggressive comments designed to irritate me.
I'm moving this thread back to public view for some conclusion.
Here's how he got banned.
While reprimanding someone for being verbally abusive the second time, he decided to join in with the verbal abuse, in a way that's intended to irritate me also.
“White” Hydrogen ?
This is the exact thing he got banned twice for this year. And it's clear to him i expected him to stop doing that.
This time, i keep the comment up for public view because in the past i usually cleaned up after Chalo without comment to keep the forum peaceful. I did this because in a majority of cases, these were flamewar starters. In the last 2 years, the problem has been particularly bad and i was deleting a few really bad posts per month.
I did everything i could think of to try to get Chalo to stop this. Chalo still believed he's above the rules and can either ignore or shove members of the moderator team around. I think this expectation was built because historically, we let Chalo get away with being extra spicy. But as of recent we have a give an inch, take a mile situation happening with that special leniency..
It's a ridiculous way to go out, and i feel burned for giving him a third chance.
I don't like having to be the head of forum corrections today. I wish things went differently.
Chalo had many great posts over the years. He will be missed by many.
Please join me in pouring one out for our homey:
Maybe it’s still being developed, but you’d think with AI there would be other options. Picture a special powder puff button or setting that admins can apply instead of banning a member. The setting would auto-translate and sanitize posts to be docile, 200% politically correct, and maybe inserting a few cute emojis into each post too. It could even send out attaboys or thumbs up to others on the thread; overall a likeable model AI member.
When the member has been AI’d, the system could even automatically override their avatar to something generic, but nice
, and later restore the original once the member has been returned from digital exile.
While judging people by the content of their character was something spoken of in the 60’s, today, with AI, you can eliminate the character all together, and go straight to the content. Efficient. I guess that’s why forums are a dying breed.
I haven’t heard of anyone that has accused AI of hurting their feelings yet, but I wouldn’t be surprised if there were some folks being triggered. But with advanced AI, you can just choose from a menu, how you want AI members to treat you, and never have to deal with real people or personalities again. I guess we’re one step closer to the dream in that respect.
When the member has been AI’d, the system could even automatically override their avatar to something generic, but nice
, and later restore the original once the member has been returned from digital exile.While judging people by the content of their character was something spoken of in the 60’s, today, with AI, you can eliminate the character all together, and go straight to the content. Efficient. I guess that’s why forums are a dying breed.
I haven’t heard of anyone that has accused AI of hurting their feelings yet, but I wouldn’t be surprised if there were some folks being triggered. But with advanced AI, you can just choose from a menu, how you want AI members to treat you, and never have to deal with real people or personalities again. I guess we’re one step closer to the dream in that respect.
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