I want your opinions on a trike idea

recumpence said:
I just like the truly weird and off the wall.

Well, taste IS half the battle.

BUT - then again - if you consider a belt-drive Moulton "mainstream"...

Thank GOD for all us so-called "weird" folks working on this stuff. If Chevrolet Cavalier and Honda Civic type eBikes were all that came out of this community, I'd be really uninterested.
 
Similar idea's here: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=9011

I'd like more info on the front suspension, pic in this thread, looks awesome.

I think you would need full suspension to get good handeling.

You can buy an electric "Path", right now, http://www.utahtrikes.com/playvideo-19.html ,which is a prety good setup, but it would be better sutied with suspension. Like the ActionRecumbent tx1 http://www.actionbent.com/t1x.html, and more battery/power. With the front suspensioin in the previous thread.

I actually plan on building one of these in some fasion, because I live in the NE, and it looks like I might need to continue my bikeing thing for a while, so this type of setup will be better suited for the winter months, (better get started on it now :D )

The problem with the KMX, all though cheaper than most, are only rated for a light load, and don't have any suspension. Plus...if your looking for something for the highway, larger tires = less rolling resistance. And at the speeds we/you are looking for, a steering wheel with a different ratio (slower) would be better as well. Which would raise the question of direct or indirect steering....ya da ya da ya da.

But it can be done, how cheap is another story, two 48v 20ah lipo's at retail is 1200+,(= more for higher volts) the bike,(a good one), 1200+, power system (48v 1000w brushless rear hub) 400...modified controller..100....Lights..+++...misc..200+...adds up quick

I got till November to build one.... :(
 
Matt, I know you have the final chain drive thing pretty well sorted now, but I thought this was worth posting:

hyosung gv650s.jpg

Now, please hold off on comments about Korean bikes hardly being a fine example of anything. The thing that caught my eye when I saw a shiny one of these in a car park a few weeks back was a big fat toothed belt as the final drive. It looked like about an inch wide and a bit under an inch tooth pitch. Checking the power output of this particular bike, it's around 50 kW. I think the main thing in favour of going with the belt in this application is that its quieter than a chain.
 
nineball said:
The problem with the KMX, all though cheaper than most, are only rated for a light load, and don't have any suspension. Plus...if your looking for something for the highway, larger tires = less rolling resistance.............

But it can be done, how cheap is another story, two 48v 20ah lipo's at retail is 1200+,(= more for higher volts) the bike,(a good one), 1200+, power system (48v 1000w brushless rear hub) 400...modified controller..100....Lights..+++...misc..200+...adds up quick.

Hmm, not sure where you are getting your information from. The primary reason I am going with KMX is because of their durability. They are rated for 300 pounds. That is not a light load. Heck, guys are jumping them. The frames are chromoly. Very tough stuff. Also, I have no plans on anything for the highway. This will be a neighborhood blaster that will be mainly high accelleration. Suspension is nice, but not in the equasion for cost, space, and "Not needed for this project" reasons.

Will it be costly? Yes. However, I am a dealer for KMX, Astro Flight, Castle Creations controllers, and Lipo packs. I can build this and sell it for retail price of everything without any labor at all and still make a decent proffit.

At any rate, I think you are missing the point here, to a degree.

This type of trike is not for everyone. But, hey, it will fill a niche. :D

Matt
 
Hi Matt,

recumpence said:
Widening the track is on the table.
One big advantage (IMO) of a two wheel Ebike is the narrower footprint so unless there is a pretty compelling reason I wouldn't do it.

recumpence said:
My thoughts regarding commuter, in town EVs is much closer to a velomobile or an ultra light version of the Aptera than an E-bike. E-bikes are awesome for single person fun transport in clear weather. But, a tadpole is the perfect platform for transition into full E-transportation. It is a bike, but a true EV.

Matt

A roof or canopy would be a huge plus in inclement weather. Something like this:
lorax-hauler-in-japan.jpg

http://loraxmotors.com/products/the-hauler
... Substitute street tires for the gnarly knobbies, and the Hauler's powerful motor, dual drive wheels and excellent sight lines will power you through any urban adventure....

Price: $2,660.00
 
I have an idea for drive unit bolt on mounts for the KMX trikes. If these work out, I will have a relatively modular system of drives. Right now I am stocking twin motored drive units as well as single motor units. I have 3220s in stock and 3210s. I have HV110s in stock and HV140s. So, I could do something like this;

Stage 1--- Single 3210 with HV110 controller (4.5kw).
Stage 2--- Single 3220 with HV140 controller (6kw).
Stage 3--- Twin 3210s with two HV110s (8 to 9kw).
Stage 4--- Twin 3220s with two HV140s (12.5kw).

The issue is price. A single 3210 with drive and frame mounts as well as an HV110 is $950. The twin 3220s with drive, frame mount and twin HV140s is about $2800. Of sourse, that drive is 3 times the power and 3 times the cost. :D That is getting up there around the price of a Agni with a high end controller. But, this is higher power to weight ratio.

In any event, I am building a stage 1 trike and a stage 4 to start with. If I can, indeed, have all bolt-on parts machined, I will be able to have a modular system that will be much easier to build than one-off custom trikes that require welding and what-not. Plus, if I do not need to do custom machining and welding, I can merely charge the customer for the parts he is buying and build the trike at no labor cost. The free assembly will encourage more sales because every dime spent is for actual equipment. This would be kind of like the chopper shops that stock engines, frames, fenders, tanks, etc and merely assemble the bikes. They are not as high cost because of the modularity, but still hand-built and radical. :D

That is the plan.........

Matt
 
Great idea, Matt. Then one could do a bolt-on upgrade when funds allowed, and resell the lower power unit (that's if they can bear to part with it). :)
 
I've noticed in my e-trike (a Catrike 700), it was difficult to mount enough batteries. I had a system that could hold the batteries securely on the rack, but that put too much stress on the rear wheel. I've resorted to a trailer since then.

On the KMX, there is room behind the seat, but it might get crowded quickly with the motor there, and LiFePo batteries are small, but 48V50AH (I have 24V20AH * 5) still takes up a lot of room.
In your other thread on the Stage 4 model, I noticed a range estimate. I get those ranges at 15MPH, not 25MPH. However, I'm using an inferior Cyclone motor, but on a much more efficient (aerodynamic and mechanical) Catrike 700. Do you have efficiency calculations?

And further, if you don't use a left-hand drive, and you run the motor through the gears, I know I've had problems with using all 9 gears, because of a high chain angle, since the motor sprocket is very close to the gearing on the wheel.

Sorry if I'm pointing out flaws you've already worked out. I know your work is much better than mine (until I save up for a nice mill), but I think these are valid design concerns.

Nick
 
Left hand drive is what will be used. It has to be because the stock chain will not tolerate the power. I also do not want to go with freewheeling cranks. So, I am removing the rear disc (totally uneeded on a trike) and running left side drive.

The range estimate is based on my recumbent and my PK Ripper. my recumbent goes 25 miles on 48 volt, 10ah at 20mph. The PK Ripper with very similar twin motored drive, was good for 18 miles at 20 mph with the same pack capacity. So, using those as a baseline, 50ah should give me no less than 80 miles at the worse if I am not careful. I bet I can see closer to 100 miles. But, I am banking on at least 80 miles with 20% pack capacity left. These are rough guesses, but should be about right. I am also running 110psi Hookworm tires. Complared to stock, the rolling resistance is very low. THe trike itself is very low as well. Wind resistance is low on KMX trikes, even though they weigh a bit more than others.

The pack I am using is a lipo, not LifePo4. The 48 volt 50ah pack weighs 35 pounds and will fit under the seat on the left and right sides. The total volume of the pack is about the size of a shoebox. The pack will be separated into two packs that will have the footprint of a shoebox, but only about 2 inches high. I will make safety mounting boxes for the two separate 25ah packs that will mount to the right and left sides of the frame spar under the seat toward the front of the trike, just behind the crossmember. This will also get the weight low and forward, adding to the cornering capability of the trike. The packs will be almost unoticeable down there. VRDub's trike uses a low slung pack as well and it looks nice that way and rides nice too.

I know the performance claims seem high, but untill you run high efficiency equipment, it is hard to understand. :D

Actually, my numbers are on the low side. Actual numbers should be better than quoted. I could be wrong. That is possible. But, I have a pretty good sense of these RC drives and Lipo packs.

We shall see soon enough.

Matt
 
Yup, my CNC machinist is back in town. I gave him a $2,000 deposit to start making some KMX drive system mounts, 130mm BCD to ISO sprocket adaptors (thanks a TON for the CAD work Miles. I owe you big time. :mrgreen: ), and some other bits. I hope to have enough parts in stock, that I do not have to do any one-off machining what-so-ever for KMX karts.

Also, my twin 3220 drive unit is totally finished.

I have been completely inundated with work, though. I have a couple large drive unit orders thtat i am busy filling and my day job is absolutely crazy busy right now.

I thank God I have work, though, in this economy.

I should have some good stuff to show you within a week or so. :mrgreen:

Matt
 
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