KT36ZWP

[KT36ZWPhater]

Hi all,

Struggling to get this controller to output, can't find a pinout/datasheet.



From left to right, top to bottom
(5) hall sensor
(3) pseudo german flag??
(2) Brake Application Sensor
(3) Motor Phase
(3) Pedal Rotation Sensor
(2) Battery Leads
(2) blue leads, can be plugged into self??
(1) Orange??

I had it putting out <2.4 volts on the motor yesterday by simulating hall effect sensors with arduino uno, unable to recreate this now.

The bars had a battery voltage readout (achieved by connecting directly to battery), a power switch (seemed to be wired in series with pedal rotation sensor?), and a toggle button (was for front light i believe).

 

[docw009]

Courtesy of Google Translate. I gotta get my phone doing this.




My guess is that this is an early KT controller, but Google AI says that Suzhou Quantum ELectronics is not the same as Suzchou Kunteng Electronics. Meanwhile, regular Google cannot find a current link to any Suzhou Quantum Electronics.

WHat is the context? You found an an old bike with motor and battery? Do you know if motor is good? How much is your time worth?

If it were me, I'd first make sure the motor works using a knwon good controller/throttle, Then I would poke around with the old controller, but not for long,

There are several problems. First is syncing up the Phase wires and Hall sensor to the motor, I guess you have to trust the colors match. Next is how do you spin the phases. THe label says it has a throttle (1-4.2 voltage). Find wires that aren't ground but are low when the controller is powered up. Those will be your throttle candidates. Good luck. It might have a PAS senor input, but you could waste hours finding the input and shaping the pulses.

 

[KT36ZWPhater]

Courtesy of Google Translate. I gotta get my phone doing this.

View attachment 387241
View attachment 387242

My guess is that this is an early KT controller, but Google AI says that Suzhou Quantum ELectronics is not the same as Suzchou Kunteng Electronics. Meanwhile, regular Google cannot find a current link to any Suzhou Quantum Electronics.

WHat is the context? You found an an old bike with motor and battery? Do you know if motor is good? How much is your time worth?

If it were me, I'd first make sure the motor works using a knwon good controller/throttle, Then I would poke around with the old controller, but not for long,

There are several problems. First is syncing up the Phase wires and Hall sensor to the motor, I guess you have to trust the colors match. Next is how do you spin the phases. THe label says it has a throttle (1-4.2 voltage). Find wires that aren't ground but are low when the controller is powered up. Those will be your throttle candidates. Good luck. It might have a PAS senor input, but you could waste hours finding the input and shaping the pulses.

Context:
From all the information I could find on the manufacturer (Kenbay Electric Bikes, Dublin) they seem to have gone out of business in 2012. I think this may have been a prototype, as it doesnt match the products on their facebook (battery in between seat post and rear wheel). As such, a pre 2010 controller is plausible.

Bike Origin:
I got the bike from swapping bikes with a friend, he got a lighter bike, I got a non-functioning e-bike with no battery.

Motor:
I put a few volts in between phases and it turns no problem

Time value:
I'm doing this partially to get better at electronics, so I'm willing to commit a decent amount of time to it. I believe its a square wave controller however so I would't want it to become my daily.

Syncing up phase & hall wiring:
Yeah thats exactly what I've done for now, if theres cogging behaviour or similar I'll try change it around.

Throttle Input:
Theres no variable thumb throttle or anything, but I'll try putting 4.2 volts on some of the mystery leads. I think the yellow wire from the "german flag" matched the behaviour you describe, plus the red, black, yellow combination would make sense.

PAS:
There's a pedalling speed sensor that was actually very easy to identify, it was entirely external. It's a disk of 5 magnets next to a 3 leg chip (w32 0692 written on it). When the magnetic field near the chip changes, the chip toggles between 5v and 0v.

Have you got any recommendation for wiring? I'll try 1 to 4.2 volts on yellow and let you know how it goes.

 

[docw009]

A 5V diode with its cathode connected to a 5V source will show about 4,3 at the anode end. Connect it to a throttle input and you get full rpm. I use a diode often to identify the three wires in a throttle connector, It simulates full 4.3V output of the Hall devices often used in throttles.

Find a 5V line and test remaining un-used wires (avoid battery lines) til the motor spins, The red, yellow, black does seem like a candidate.

I suppose all those wires in the pictures presently go to connectors, and the RYB combo was dangling. Are you seeing 5V on the Hall sensor connector when battery power is applied to the thick red/black?

Modern controllers bring in battery power, but most require require an extra lead that must be connected to battery to turn on the internal logic and control circuits. This controller being so old, who knows how they do it. Having a series switch from the handlebars on the pedal sensor would mean its always powered up.

 

[KT36ZWPhater]

A 5V diode with its cathode connected to a 5V source will show about 4,3 at the anode end. Connect it to a throttle input and you get full rpm. I use a diode often to identify the three wires in a throttle connector, It simulates full 4.3V output of the Hall devices often used in throttles.

Find a 5V line and test remaining un-used wires (avoid battery lines) til the motor spins,

I just got up second powersupply last week (RD6030), so I'll probe around with 4.3 volts using my 30v 10a one and let you know the result. If I get nothing, I'm thinking of cracking the controller open.

Thank you for your help btw

 

[KT36ZWPhater]

A 5V diode with its cathode connected to a 5V source will show about 4,3 at the anode end. Connect it to a throttle input and you get full rpm. I use a diode often to identify the three wires in a throttle connector, It simulates full 4.3V output of the Hall devices often used in throttles.

Find a 5V line and test remaining un-used wires (avoid battery lines) til the motor spins, The red, yellow, black does seem like a candidate.

I suppose all those wires in the pictures presently go to connectors, and the RYB combo was dangling. Are you seeing 5V on the Hall sensor connector when battery power is applied to the thick red/black?

Modern controllers bring in battery power, but most require require an extra lead that must be connected to battery to turn on the internal logic and control circuits. This controller being so old, who knows how they do it. Having a series switch from the handlebars on the pedal sensor would mean its always powered up.

Ok tried it, no luck. Opened up and no visible damage, board says "KTW-P3F6" 2007-3-3, so will see if theres anything online about it.

 

[n00b]

Hi all,

Struggling to get this controller to output, can't find a pinout/datasheet.
View attachment 387231
View attachment 387232

From left to right, top to bottom
(5) hall sensor
(3) pseudo german flag??
(2) Brake Application Sensor
(3) Motor Phase
(3) Pedal Rotation Sensor
(2) Battery Leads
(2) blue leads, can be plugged into self??
(1) Orange??

I had it putting out <2.4 volts on the motor yesterday by simulating hall effect sensors with arduino uno, unable to recreate this now.

The bars had a battery voltage readout (achieved by connecting directly to battery), a power switch (seemed to be wired in series with pedal rotation sensor?), and a toggle button (was for front light i believe).

You can take a screenshot of the pic you already have and plug it into something online and it will translate it.
I did that with a BMS. Had to.
Let's see a pic of the other ends of the wires.
The 3 on the left are phase, and I see the power wires.
All you need is on/off, throttle and hall now.
Also: Are you sure your throttle is good?
I had a bad throttle and it threw me for a loop. Had me doin' all kindsa things.
It was just a bad throttle. Hooked up 3 batteries, couple different controllers, tested on other stuff. It was the throttle.
I see someone else in this thread already did the pic translate.
I guess you're using straight voltage or a VR and not a real e-bike throttle? Okay. Why?

 

[n00b]

Ok tried it, no luck. Opened up and no visible damage, board says "KTW-P3F6" 2007-3-3, so will see if theres anything online about it.

Break yourself and use a different controller?
Just because there's no visible damage on an electronic component, does not mean it isn't a paperweight.
Wow, 2007.
Things have evolved since then. Did you get a pic of the mosfets when you opened it up?
Yeah, that's probably irrelevant. That was just a nerd question.
My suggestion is get a different controller.

 

[KT36ZWPhater]

You can take a screenshot of the pic you already have and plug it into something online and it will translate it.
I did that with a BMS. Had to.
Let's see a pic of the other ends of the wires.
The 3 on the left are phase, and I see the power wires.
All you need is on/off, throttle and hall now.
Also: Are you sure your throttle is good?
I had a bad throttle and it threw me for a loop. Had me doin' all kindsa things.
It was just a bad throttle. Hooked up 3 batteries, couple different controllers, tested on other stuff. It was the throttle.
I see someone else in this thread already did the pic translate.
I guess you're using straight voltage or a VR and not a real e-bike throttle? Okay. Why?

I'm using an amazon bench psu for throttle.

On the handlebars, there is an on/off switch, and a toggle button. No other electrical inputs, no variable throttle.

I get the impression that this e-bike is a shoddy prototype or very limited run.

 

[KT36ZWPhater]

Break yourself and use a different controller?
Just because there's no visible damage on an electronic component, does not mean it isn't a paperweight.
Wow, 2007.
Things have evolved since then. Did you get a pic of the mosfets when you opened it up?
Yeah, that's probably irrelevant. That was just a nerd question.
My suggestion is get a different controller.

No didn't photograph them, pretty sure its the usual 3 groups of 2 though.

Yeah will probably just have to get a new controller.