'lightest.bike' 1.7kg 1000w mid drive

[bedesign]

As I reported earlier, my original support rod broke when I bent it
as the instruction said, so heating it before is recommended.

Also, the 3-D alignment of all wheels and pulleys is a bit critical.
It can require some bending combined with shims.

I have done 440+ Km in my hilly area, with medium-mount plates and
a 38T wheel.
And everything is still working without slips (with new chain and wheel)

One thing that still remains to be improved in the controller firmware -
Prolonging the motor power 'tail' won't eliminate a resonating/pumping
effect at only certain combinations of uphill manual power, motor power
setting and pedaling speed.

Speculating, some integrating algorithm for the torque sensor should help,
but still keeping a fast response at starts may be challenging to combine?

 

[neptronix]

Thanks a lot for the information, my dudes. I think for gearing reasons i'll stick to my dual chainring setup for now until i upgrade from a 26" wheeled bike to 29".

Bummer that they have not improved this problem with the torque sensor. Been a known wart for a while. Problem possibly solveable in software.

 

[tamagucci]

I hope it works out great for you! I had been hoping to go in-frame with my CF fat bike:
View attachment 361628
But even after making a mock-up and sending photos, Victor sent me this response:
"We typically do not recommend the in-frame installation for several reasons:

Complexity of Installation: The in-frame mount requires more precise measurements and modifications compared to standard installations. This makes the process more complicated and time-consuming.
Compatibility Issues: Not all bike frames are suitable for in-frame installations. If the frame dimensions and geometry aren’t perfect, it could lead to improper fitting or performance issues over time.

For these reasons, we usually advise against in-frame setups and recommend using a standard mount instead, which is simpler and more versatile."

So, he talked me into hybrid.
View attachment 361629


Are you saying they already shipped you motor with new revision plastic gear????
I am STILL waiting for my Indiegogo order from years ago

yeah, I received the motor last week. I don't know if it actually has the quieter gears yet, but that's what they told me when I asked them. I'm still waiting on a battery.

I'm getting started on trying to make the inframe work, compatibility does seem like it would be an issue for a lot of bikes.

 

[tamagucci]

From my hard experience when doing so -

The theoretical straight upper chain part is .. theoretical.
When pedaling the chain will dynamically go lower and
possibly hit the chainring if there is to little
additional clearence

Next summer I'm planning to add a special pulley mount to prevent this.
Will share a report when ready.

Maybe something like this could help?

Trail - XC/Enduro bikes

Mountain Bike Drivetrain Damping Modules Includes two modules that mount to your swingarm Contains and controls chain slap so you can focus on the trail ahead. Suits Trail Bikes 9-13 speed up to a 50 tooth cassette. Optimal durometer rubber for maximum sound damping & durability. Adjustable for...

stfubike.com

 

[lnanek]

Those are pretty loose. Last time I had chain drop problems when hitting bumps I ran mine though this tiny one:

Amazon.com

 

[tamagucci]

Those are pretty loose. Last time I had chain drop problems when hitting bumps I ran mine though this tiny one:

Amazon.com

I think they're loose so you can shift through the gears. It's mounted on top of the chainstay, not below it.

 

[bedesign]

Maybe something like this could help?

Trail - XC/Enduro bikes

Mountain Bike Drivetrain Damping Modules Includes two modules that mount to your swingarm Contains and controls chain slap so you can focus on the trail ahead. Suits Trail Bikes 9-13 speed up to a 50 tooth cassette. Optimal durometer rubber for maximum sound damping & durability. Adjustable for...

stfubike.com

Thanks for the suggestion,
In this special case with the 'Lightest' the margin is smaller, so it would probably rub half the time,
then adding some sound.
A rotating pulley have lower friction.

 

[rhauff]

Are any of you using a rear derailleur with a clutch such as Shimano Shadow RD+? I'm curious how effective it would be for the Lightest chain drops

 

[tamagucci]

Are any of you using a rear derailleur with a clutch such as Shimano Shadow RD+? I'm curious how effective it would be for the Lightest chain drops

I'm doing my build with a deore xt linkglide derailleur. it has shadow RD+. will let you know when done.

 

[tamagucci]

Thanks for the suggestion,
In this special case with the 'Lightest' the margin is smaller, so it would probably rub half the time,
then adding some sound.
A rotating pulley have lower friction.

So do you want a tensioner above the chainring?

 

[bedesign]

So do you want a tensioner above the chainring?

The idea is not an active tensioner, rather a limiting
pulley under the top chain to prevent the nasty
crash of the chain down on the teeth of the ring.

Intuitively, one would think the chain and ring would
be in phase sync, but they were not in my case.

It depends on the individual geometry/margin if
it's needed.

 

[tamagucci]

The idea is not an active tensioner, rather a limiting
pulley under the top chain to prevent the nasty
crash of the chain down on the teeth of the ring.

Intuitively, one would think the chain and ring would
be in phase sync, but they were not in my case.

It depends on the individual geometry/margin if
it's needed.

Interesting. I hope you're able to fabricate something that works.

 

[tamagucci]

Does anyone know if these connectors are a generic type? Or are they proprietary to the motor. This is the cable harness that comes with the "Superhero package". The connectors highlighted are for brake and gear sensors.

 

[neptronix]

Hi, i was able to plug a throttle designed for a bbs02 into my unit after installing the superhero pack.. i'm thinking that the other accessories might be compatible.

 

[neptronix]

Well, i have some ride impressions from running the bike on an upright finally with dual chainring mode.

- Still limited to a max of 900w instead of the 1200w peak promised.

- The drive is quieter than stock @ 150 miles, so the prophecy of the gears getting quieter is true so far.

- Idler vibration under power is a lot less irritating when in dual chainring mode.

- Top speed on a 11t-32t rear cassette, 50T chainring with a 26" wheel on flat ground with vigorous pedaling is 28mph.

- These tiny 165mm cranks that come with the kit hurt my long legs after a short period of time, in addition to having significant radial/axial play. I can find some 170mm freewheeling cranks online, with an undesirably large offset, but i can't find 175mm freewheeling cranks ( what i need ). Possible that this is a dealbreaker for me.

- In dual chainring mode, your two chainring's tooth count should be 1:1. Lowering the tooth count on the motor drive chainring vs the bike drive chainring will lower the pedaling cadence. Increasing the tooth count on the motor drive chainring vs the bike drive will increase the cadence. If you were to say, run 60-72v to this thing via an external controller, the dual chainring mod would come in handy to counter adjust.

 

[maiz]

Well, i have some ride impressions from running the bike on an upright finally with dual chainring mode.

- Still limited to a max of 900w instead of the 1200w peak promised.

- The drive is quieter than stock @ 150 miles, so the prophecy of the gears getting quieter is true so far.

- Idler vibration under power is a lot less irritating when in dual chainring mode.

- Top speed on a 11t-32t rear cassette, 50T chainring with a 26" wheel on flat ground with vigorous pedaling is 28mph.

- These tiny 165mm cranks that come with the kit hurt my long legs after a short period of time, in addition to having significant radial/axial play. I can find some 170mm freewheeling cranks online, with an undesirably large offset, but i can't find 175mm freewheeling cranks ( what i need ). Possible that this is a dealbreaker for me.

- In dual chainring mode, your two chainring's tooth count should be 1:1. Lowering the tooth count on the motor drive chainring vs the bike drive chainring will lower the pedaling cadence. Increasing the tooth count on the motor drive chainring vs the bike drive will increase the cadence. If you were to say, run 60-72v to this thing via an external controller, the dual chainring mod would come in handy to counter adjust.

Shun Alloy 104 PCD 4-Arm Freewheeling Cranks

We stock this for tandems (although there may well be other applications), this can only be used on tandems with hub gears and straight through drive, allows the rider (front or rear or both) to independently freewheel. Requires a very long bottom bracket, when fitted to a Thorn Raven Twin...

www.sjscycles.co.uk

 

[maiz]

Well, i have some ride impressions from running the bike on an upright finally with dual chainring mode.

- Still limited to a max of 900w instead of the 1200w peak promised.

- The drive is quieter than stock @ 150 miles, so the prophecy of the gears getting quieter is true so far.

- Idler vibration under power is a lot less irritating when in dual chainring mode.

- Top speed on a 11t-32t rear cassette, 50T chainring with a 26" wheel on flat ground with vigorous pedaling is 28mph.

- These tiny 165mm cranks that come with the kit hurt my long legs after a short period of time, in addition to having significant radial/axial play. I can find some 170mm freewheeling cranks online, with an undesirably large offset, but i can't find 175mm freewheeling cranks ( what i need ). Possible that this is a dealbreaker for me.

- In dual chainring mode, your two chainring's tooth count should be 1:1. Lowering the tooth count on the motor drive chainring vs the bike drive chainring will lower the pedaling cadence. Increasing the tooth count on the motor drive chainring vs the bike drive will increase the cadence. If you were to say, run 60-72v to this thing via an external controller, the dual chainring mod would come in handy to counter adjust.

Rocksteady Magic - Intend

Integrated ratchet mechanism Ratchet system with 47 engagement points Highly optimized construction for hardcore applications … Continued

www.intend-bc.com

 

[raylo32]

This seems slow and weak, even for 900W. By my calcs, 100 RPM pedaling your rig (what I would call brisk but not crazy) should get you ~32 MPH. I can easily hit 35 MPH on my bike with similar gearing with either Photon or TSDZ2. Well, the crank on mine is only 42t so it takes a little "brisker" pedaling for that. But the motors do it.

- Top speed on a 11t-32t rear cassette, 50T chainring with a 26" wheel on flat ground with vigorous pedaling is 28mph.

 

[bedesign]

Here is a spreadsheet I made a year ago for the Lightest dual chain
wheels and other standard bikes to dimension the gearing to your liking.

Set your current or test gear data first.
No guaranties, check the result.

 

[tamagucci]

Well, i have some ride impressions from running the bike on an upright finally with dual chainring mode.

- Still limited to a max of 900w instead of the 1200w peak promised.

- The drive is quieter than stock @ 150 miles, so the prophecy of the gears getting quieter is true so far.

- Idler vibration under power is a lot less irritating when in dual chainring mode.

- Top speed on a 11t-32t rear cassette, 50T chainring with a 26" wheel on flat ground with vigorous pedaling is 28mph.

- These tiny 165mm cranks that come with the kit hurt my long legs after a short period of time, in addition to having significant radial/axial play. I can find some 170mm freewheeling cranks online, with an undesirably large offset, but i can't find 175mm freewheeling cranks ( what i need ). Possible that this is a dealbreaker for me.

- In dual chainring mode, your two chainring's tooth count should be 1:1. Lowering the tooth count on the motor drive chainring vs the bike drive chainring will lower the pedaling cadence. Increasing the tooth count on the motor drive chainring vs the bike drive will increase the cadence. If you were to say, run 60-72v to this thing via an external controller, the dual chainring mod would come in handy to counter adjust.

That sucks that you're still limited to 900w. Bikee Bike couldn't help? Has anyone been able to reach the peak 1200w claimed?

 

[neptronix]

Maiz, thanks, but these are all 170mm... that rock steady unit won't work on my 68mm BB and has an eye watering cost.
Saw the Shun unit before, don't like the added offset.
I found the 170mm ebay crank arms sold by cyclone Taiwan for $65.

Re, the speed.. here's how my gearing would work out.. i have two things going against me:
1) Extra set of chain/gear drag
2) My legs put out ~75% of the power at 165mm.. part of that is the length.. the other part is not wanting to hurt.

FYI i have the legspan of someone 6'2" and i am 240lbs so ymmv

That sucks that you're still limited to 900w. Bikee Bike couldn't help? Has anyone been able to reach the peak 1200w claimed?

I prodded them twice on this question. Instant answers about buying a new kit, no answer on this topic.
I don't know of anyone on this forum running the 1000w version other than me.
I went into the deal knowing that as always, no first generation ebike product's controller comes tuned well. Expected to have to use an external controller. Warranty is up in 6 months, which is why i'm not mad about it

 

[maiz]

Maiz, thanks, but these are all 170mm... that rock steady unit won't work on my 68mm BB and has an eye watering cost.
Saw the Shun unit before, don't like the added offset.
I found the 170mm ebay crank arms sold by cyclone Taiwan for $65.

Re, the speed.. here's how my gearing would work out.. i have two things going against me:
1) Extra set of chain/gear drag
2) My legs put out ~75% of the power at 165mm.. part of that is the length.. the other part is not wanting to hurt.

FYI i have the legspan of someone 6'2" and i am 240lbs so ymmv

View attachment 361940



I prodded them twice on this question. Instant answers about buying a new kit, no answer on this topic.
I don't know of anyone on this forum running the 1000w version other than me.
I went into the deal knowing that as always, no first generation ebike product's controller comes tuned well. Expected to have to use an external controller. Warranty is up in 6 months, which is why i'm not mad about it

Wasn't @nervagon running more power? Also what happened to all his posts?!

 

[neptronix]

Nah, he had a 750w unit.

He was concerned with online traces of himself for unspecified reasons and also became negative on DIY bikes.

 

[Kueb]

I don't know of anyone on this forum running the 1000w version other than me.

I run a Superhero 1000W/120Nm engine with a 36T front and 15T rear sprocket on my Rohloff 500/14 gearhub. I made only ca. 150km so far and I was rarely in full power mode. The display showed some max. engine power of ca. 900W but I must admit that I did not yet dig deeper on that max. power display/delivery; I'll investigate further and report here.

 

[neptronix]

Thanks for the information.

I have the 1000w model with superhero pack and race button, but not the 120nm torque upgrade.
I have all power settings unlocked.
Amps/watts/torque limit settings in race mode, whether they are set very high or very low, don't affect the controller's power output at all.

On power level 5, at low RPM, with the throttle engaged, i see the motor power linearly climb from ~600w to ~900w as we gradually get to the target cadence.

Wondering what the behavior is like on yours.. if it's a steady 900w.. or what.