Looking to do a VEO Cosmo Conversion

[Nrf1995]

So as the title suggests I'm trying to convert a VEO Cosmo that I've had sitting around for a while. I've done all the research I can on how to convert it already so the first two pictures are from someone else's post that was trying to do the same thing, the third picture is of the motor controller that I took off of mine with the wires already stripped, and the last picture is of someone on another post explaining how to do it. So I'm in the process of getting the battery case open which has turned out to be a little more difficult than I originally thought but it shouldn't be a problem. So my only question is what motor controller should I get to replace the old one? I want to get a cheaper one for now to make sure everything works then upgrading to a better one later on. I'm going to put links from a few of the controllers I was looking at on Amazon if someone could tell me which one would be the best and I'm open to other suggestions as well.

Amazon.com: WFLNHB 36V 500W Brushless Electric Motor Speed Controller(2-Mode) Replacement for Electric Bicycle Scooter : Sports & Outdoors

Amazon.com: WFLNHB 36V 500W Brushless Electric Motor Speed Controller(2-Mode) Replacement for Electric Bicycle Scooter : Sports & Outdoors

a.co

Amazon.com : E Bike Controller, Waterproof Brushless Controller Adapter with Hall with Hall, No Vibration Electric Motor Controller Cycling Equipment Accessories for Electric Bicycle Scooter 36v/48v Motor : Sports & Outdoors

Amazon.com : E Bike Controller, Waterproof Brushless Controller Adapter with Hall with Hall, No Vibration Electric Motor Controller Cycling Equipment Accessories for Electric Bicycle Scooter 36v/48v Motor : Sports & Outdoors

a.co

Amazon.com : Ejoyous Brushless Speed Controller, 48V 500W Aluminium Alloy Motor Speed Brushless Controller Electric Sine Controller for Electric Scooter : Sports & Outdoors

Amazon.com : Ejoyous Brushless Speed Controller, 48V 500W Aluminium Alloy Motor Speed Brushless Controller Electric Sine Controller for Electric Scooter : Sports & Outdoors

a.co

 

[amberwolf]

Moved from Ebike Electronics Hacking to Escooters and Motorcycles because it isn't an ebike (is a scooter) and isn't hacking the electronics (is replacing them).


The connectors mostly look like common ones (check out ebikes.ca Connectors page), but no guarantee they are wired the same as others out there. So even if you find a controller with the same connectors on it, you will need to verify that the wiring between the two is the same, before hooking it up and turning it on, as you don't want to risk frying anything.


The battery connector (two fat three skinny) may have communication with the battery and the batteyr might not operate without that. You may have to replace it's BMS with a standard one if that's the case. Don't just bypass the BMS like the text says, because that leaves it unprotected against damage that can lead to a fire.

The motor connector (three fat, six skinny) is a common one for motors. If hte controlelr you get has an autolearn feature for hte motor phase/hall combination, then it's likely to "work" without worrying about wiring for this connector.

The two wire connector is proably an ebrake, those are pretty standard, doens't matter which wire goes to which.

The last connector is probably for a display, and that wont' matter, because you're going to almost certainly have to repalce controller and display with a kit that comes with both. (displays and controllers are not generally intercompatible; see E-HP's thread for info on this).

Whatever controller you get needs to be limited so it doesn't draw more amps than the stock one, so it doens't overload your battery. If the contorller doesn't state the A limit, then see if the battery label says how many A (not Ah, totally different) it can supply, and get a controller with that or less A Amp limit. If you want to use a more powerful contorller you'll need to change out the battery for one that's capable of whatever you want the controller to do (and hope the motor can also handle the higher power too).


I dont' see a throttle connector, so if the controller you have doesn't have one, it means it's probably built inot the display, and you will need a separate throttle to replace that when you replace the display, unless the new display that comes with the new controller has one built in.

 

[Nrf1995]

Moved from Ebike Electronics Hacking to Escooters and Motorcycles because it isn't an ebike (is a scooter) and isn't hacking the electronics (is replacing them).


The connectors mostly look like common ones (check out ebikes.ca Connectors page), but no guarantee they are wired the same as others out there. So even if you find a controller with the same connectors on it, you will need to verify that the wiring between the two is the same, before hooking it up and turning it on, as you don't want to risk frying anything.


The battery connector (two fat three skinny) may have communication with the battery and the batteyr might not operate without that. You may have to replace it's BMS with a standard one if that's the case. Don't just bypass the BMS like the text says, because that leaves it unprotected against damage that can lead to a fire.

The motor connector (three fat, six skinny) is a common one for motors. If hte controlelr you get has an autolearn feature for hte motor phase/hall combination, then it's likely to "work" without worrying about wiring for this connector.

The two wire connector is proably an ebrake, those are pretty standard, doens't matter which wire goes to which.

The last connector is probably for a display, and that wont' matter, because you're going to almost certainly have to repalce controller and display with a kit that comes with both. (displays and controllers are not generally intercompatible; see E-HP's thread for info on this).

Whatever controller you get needs to be limited so it doesn't draw more amps than the stock one, so it doens't overload your battery. If the contorller doesn't state the A limit, then see if the battery label says how many A (not Ah, totally different) it can supply, and get a controller with that or less A Amp limit. If you want to use a more powerful contorller you'll need to change out the battery for one that's capable of whatever you want the controller to do (and hope the motor can also handle the higher power too).


I dont' see a throttle connector, so if the controller you have doesn't have one, it means it's probably built inot the display, and you will need a separate throttle to replace that when you replace the display, unless the new display that comes with the new controller has one built in.

I'm actually kind of stuck on the battery part. I'd like to try and get by without getting a new BMS. I'm having trouble understanding what he meant exactly by soldering a wire from the negative point and tieing it into the main power plug. Which part of the main power plug do I tie it into? Also when you say leaving it unprotected, is there no way to put some protection around it? Like with electric tape or something. Also I was just going to get a controller with no display first just to make sure everything works first. I've replaced a controller in one of my other scooters but it was fairly simple but this one I'm not as confident about. Also the battery connector is only two big and two skinny, don't know if that makes a difference.

 

[Nrf1995]

I'm actually kind of stuck on the battery part. I'd like to try and get by without getting a new BMS. I'm having trouble understanding what he meant exactly by soldering a wire from the negative point and tieing it into the main power plug. Which part of the main power plug do I tie it into? Also when you say leaving it unprotected, is there no way to put some protection around it? Like with electric tape or something. Also I was just going to get a controller with no display first just to make sure everything works first. I've replaced a controller in one of my other scooters but it was fairly simple but this one I'm not as confident about. Also the battery connector is only two big and two skinny, don't know if that makes a difference.

Moved from Ebike Electronics Hacking to Escooters and Motorcycles because it isn't an ebike (is a scooter) and isn't hacking the electronics (is replacing them).


The connectors mostly look like common ones (check out ebikes.ca Connectors page), but no guarantee they are wired the same as others out there. So even if you find a controller with the same connectors on it, you will need to verify that the wiring between the two is the same, before hooking it up and turning it on, as you don't want to risk frying anything.


The battery connector (two fat three skinny) may have communication with the battery and the batteyr might not operate without that. You may have to replace it's BMS with a standard one if that's the case. Don't just bypass the BMS like the text says, because that leaves it unprotected against damage that can lead to a fire.

The motor connector (three fat, six skinny) is a common one for motors. If hte controlelr you get has an autolearn feature for hte motor phase/hall combination, then it's likely to "work" without worrying about wiring for this connector.

The two wire connector is proably an ebrake, those are pretty standard, doens't matter which wire goes to which.

The last connector is probably for a display, and that wont' matter, because you're going to almost certainly have to repalce controller and display with a kit that comes with both. (displays and controllers are not generally intercompatible; see E-HP's thread for info on this).

Whatever controller you get needs to be limited so it doesn't draw more amps than the stock one, so it doens't overload your battery. If the contorller doesn't state the A limit, then see if the battery label says how many A (not Ah, totally different) it can supply, and get a controller with that or less A Amp limit. If you want to use a more powerful contorller you'll need to change out the battery for one that's capable of whatever you want the controller to do (and hope the motor can also handle the higher power too).


I dont' see a throttle connector, so if the controller you have doesn't have one, it means it's probably built inot the display, and you will need a separate throttle to replace that when you replace the display, unless the new display that comes with the new controller has one built in.

 

[neptronix]

You need a BMS unless you're willing to invest in equipment to manually balance and check the cells. If they get out of balance, get drained too much, etc, they could catch fire. You could also easily overcharge some cells, and that could cause a fire.

Pictures of the wiring and board would be helpful, otherwise you're just getting guesses.

 

[Nrf1995]

You need a BMS unless you're willing to invest in equipment to manually balance and check the cells. If they get out of balance, get drained too much, etc, they could catch fire. You could also easily overcharge some cells, and that could cause a fire.

Pictures of the wiring and board would be helpful, otherwise you're just getting guesses.

 

[neptronix]

You could do that, but it could allow you to over-drain your battery or damage some cells. It's an easy mistake to make which can destroy your battery or turn it into a firebomb, don't recommend anyone setup things that way.

You at least need a quite conservative low voltage cutoff on your controller to reduce the chances of the above.

Why do you want to bypass the bms?

 

[Nrf1995]

You could do that, but it could allow you to over-drain your battery or damage some cells. It's an easy mistake to make which can destroy your battery or turn it into a firebomb, don't recommend anyone setup things that way.

How do I avoid doing that? Also where should I solder the wire on the board and where do I tie it into on the main power plug?

 

[neptronix]

You'd need to monitor the cell voltages with some external device. What voltage is the battery?

Why are you by bypassing your BMS?

 

[Nrf1995]

Because I'm not getting any voltage from the main power connector

 

[neptronix]

Either the BMS is broken or in protection mode because some cells were overdischarged or something else bad happened.

I'd measure those cell groups before using it. You're probably going to find a bad cell group.
You should have a 12S or 13S battery based on the voltage.
Does it charge at all?

 

[Nrf1995]

Yes everything works perfect. I'm pretty sure it's just the way it's set-up so it would only work with the VEO system.

 

[amberwolf]

I'm actually kind of stuck on the battery part. I'd like to try and get by without getting a new BMS.

If you want a safe battery, you'll need a BMS (see caveats at the end of this post). They're not terribly expensive, or terribly hard to install.

If the one you have didn't (probably) have some requirement to be turned on by the Veo rental system / app / etc., it wouldn't be an issue.

If you can find out how the Veo BMS is turned on by the system, you might be able to just turn it on and use it isntead of bypassing or replacing it.

It could be as simple as a resistor or voltage on one or boht of the two pins (this would prboably be pretty easy to figure out and do).

It could be (and is more likley to be) a communication signal, which could be recorded with an arduino or other MCU and some code, and played back at every system turn-on. (this would probably take some work to do).

Also when you say leaving it unprotected, is there no way to put some protection around it? Like with electric tape or something.

Unfortunately, tape of any kind can't do anything remotely like what the BMS does.

Protection means something that detects the cell voltages during operation and charging, and turns off the input and output as needed to keep from overdischarging or overcharging any or all the cells.

It also means ensuring the cells remain the same voltage (balanced) so that charging to full or discharging to empty doesn't overcharge or overdischarge one or some cells.

That is what the BMS does. (well, most of them do both, some don't do the second part)

If you bypass the BMS (what those instructions tell you to do) then you remove all those protections, and you can then easily damage the battery.

A damaged battery can easily fail in a way that causes a fire.

You cannot really know if the battery is damaged in this way until this happens...and while it is a low-probability event, it is a very-high-consequence one.


There *are* batteries that *can* be saf*er* to use without a BMS, but I would not expect this (or pretty much any ebike or scooter battery) to be one of them. Most of those are made so cheaply and used so close to the edge of their capabilities (to reduce cost, size, and weight) that the BMS is really required to operate them safely.


With enough experience and information, and enough test equipment to monitor the cells with while you ride and while you charge, it's "safe" to use without a BMS...but a BMS is cheaper and easier to use than any of that, so if money is the issue, I'd recommend just replacing the BMS, if safety matters at all.

 

[amberwolf]

Because I'm not getting any voltage from the main power connector

Is there voltage at any of the pins, relative to any of the other pins?

If not, then there is probably something wrong with the battery, and the BMS has turned it off *completely* to protect against damage that could lead to a fire. It *might* turn back on when you recharge it, but if connecting the charger that came with the bike doesn't work (no recharging, or the light on the charger doesnt' change to indicate it is charging), then the BMS has almost certainly stopped all input and output because of a cell fault.

But...if the Veo system's app control is inside the battery itself, then teh BMS shutoff could be normal, and commanded, rather than a cell fault. It could be designed so the app on your phone talks via BT to the battery's BMS (or a module inside that then talks to the BMS) to turn it on once the scooter has been rented, so that it can't be used if it's just stolen rather than rented.

In this case, there's no controller-battery comms to decode, no external command or wakeup pins, and any hacking to turn the batteyr on has to be done from inside it.

To find that out, you'd have to open up the battery, and get good clear well lit (direct sunlight is best) in focus high resolution pictures of all of the electronics that are inside the battery. That might let others here help you find a way to enable the battery without bypassing the BMS protection of the cells.

 

[E-HP]

I'm actually kind of stuck on the battery part. I'd like to try and get by without getting a new BMS. I'm having trouble understanding what he meant exactly by soldering a wire from the negative point and tieing it into the main power plug. Which part of the main power plug do I tie it into? Also when you say leaving it unprotected, is there no way to put some protection around it? Like with electric tape or something. Also I was just going to get a controller with no display first just to make sure everything works first. I've replaced a controller in one of my other scooters but it was fairly simple but this one I'm not as confident about. Also the battery connector is only two big and two skinny, don't know if that makes a difference.

You should not be doing anything to modify the battery, if not for your own safety, then for everyone around you. I’m not sure why someone hasn’t made that clear already.

 

[amberwolf]

You should not be doing anything to modify the battery, if not for your own safety, then for everyone around you. I’m not sure why someone hasn’t made that clear already.

(I kinda figured that the chance of fire from battery damage would make that obvious, but maybe not)

 

[E-HP]

(I kinda figured that the chance of fire from battery damage would make that obvious, but maybe not)

I think when safety is concerned, it’s important to be clear. Understanding how to safely build a battery won’t be something you learn from a handful of posts in a new member’s first thread on ES. I also feel that it’s easy to determine by the posts and the questions being posed, if there is adequate knowledge to safely build a pack. I’m providing guidance as though the poster lived in an apartment directly below me. I’m not convinced that opening the battery is good advice, even while using tape.

 

[nato415]

Hey can u msg me about the veo cosmo

 

[bearly]

Find any 500 watt to 750watt brushless controller. All the motor wires are color to color matched. Then just follow the directions that controller came with. You won't be able to use veos display and mini controller located in the display housing. Just remove that double board. Use a multimeter to find the wire that goes to the controller, each wire in the display housing is wire to wire connect but the wires down at controller are not. If you use the juliet/high connects it makes it easier for testing and connecting to bike. Msg for more info