Mid drive chain efficiency and longevity tips
- Thread starter neptronix
- Start date
I did try it for a few years. In a rainy maritime environment it was ultimately way too time intensive. One ride in a good rain would require rewaxing. Rainy season meant rewaxing after every ride. As a bicycle commuter this was not sustainable. And cold weather riding (near freezing temps) caused chain skipping.
This was before quick links were common so removing/replacing the pins was a hassle and often caused its own problems.
I honestly could not perceive any increase in chain friction efficiency.
The only real benefit to me was having a "clean" chain and chainwheels. Keeping my pants, socks, legs free of black greasy marks was an attractive feature.
scianiac
10 kW
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- Oct 24, 2018
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What type of wax did you use?
Not sure I understand why some rain would wash out the wax, I would think the opposite would be true and it would be more resilient to washout than oil. Or do you just mean the wax doesn't provide as much external corrosion protection and the chain would rust otherwise. That I have noticed the wax stays better inside the chain than oil but doesn't stick to the chain on the outside as well as it's not a liquid of course.
There are a few ways to resolve this though, if you only cared about preventing rust you could just apply some oil after the waxing. The oil will not dissolve the wax (at less then the melting point of the wax I believe) but will coat the chain, this also gives up much of the advantages though.
My solution was to add a corrosion inhibitor to the wax that binds with the metal surface and my wax does have a little oil in it which sticks to the surface slightly better. This seems to be working well as my previous wax had a tiny bit of rust now and then and none after the rust inhibitor was added. That old chain was also a very cheap chain so wasn't plated. A decent chain will have a decent external corrosion protection coating, nickel plating or otherwise.
I also generally don't ride in the rain but rather through streams, puddles, mud, etc so could be that. There is probably no perfect solution and wax does have downsides although I don't think cost, time, wear performance, or longevity are any of them.
Well, two chains done. That was pretty easy. (The ceramic pot is the exact same dark grey color as the wax....heh) First chain is just a cheap replacement on a slightly worn freewheel. The other is for the new Shimano freewheel on the shelf. Any guidelines for when to rewax a chain that's already been waxed especially a mid-drive? (I never ride wet.)
lnanek
10 kW
I like Chalo's input. I tried mineral spirits to clean factory chains initially - it works much better than what I use now but is a pain to dispose of ecologically. I think gasoline falls into the same category. Therefore you end up keeping it and filtering it, which is also a pain. You also have to keep an alcohol bath ready for after too. Having a very large ultrasonic cleaner like I do helps make up for it, but not everyone can afford those.
It's a little inflammatory to refer to that option as a toxin bath, but it does cut to the heart of the matter quite efficiently in terms of word length. Just having a thread be an echo chamber of everyone saying the same thing is kind of useless since then no one will try anything different or discover any other options.
I have no problem with contrarian opinions. It's all a matter of how you present them. if you have a pattern of doing that in a jerky way, i have a problem with someone like that. Especially if i've told them to stop many times before.
I don't necessarily disagree with Chalo. I also think the environmental aspect is concerning. But you only do it once. If you use liquid lube, you're continually dripping it into the road when it rains. Many waxes are less toxic than liquid lube, so when they drip to the ground, it's less harmful.
Consider this also, a superior quality lubricant or average wax can massively extend chain life. Go in either direction and you are cutting the pollution generated from consuming 1/2-1/4th the chains.
Is one better than the other environmentally? i don't know. There's a lot to think about.
For my dusty, nearly never rains environment, i'm choosing drip wax because it fits my environment best and seems to be middle of the road, maintenance requirements wise.
I may also do something really crazy and add a dust shield.
But YMMV
I don't necessarily disagree with Chalo. I also think the environmental aspect is concerning. But you only do it once. If you use liquid lube, you're continually dripping it into the road when it rains. Many waxes are less toxic than liquid lube, so when they drip to the ground, it's less harmful.
Consider this also, a superior quality lubricant or average wax can massively extend chain life. Go in either direction and you are cutting the pollution generated from consuming 1/2-1/4th the chains.
Is one better than the other environmentally? i don't know. There's a lot to think about.
For my dusty, nearly never rains environment, i'm choosing drip wax because it fits my environment best and seems to be middle of the road, maintenance requirements wise.
I may also do something really crazy and add a dust shield.
But YMMV
hillslayer@
100 W
I would just do mine every 100 miles but since I have added a hub drive and only pedal uphill now it's probably more like 3 to 4 hundred miles now.
Simple, commonly available household paraffin wax, sold in convenient ~1 lb. containers (four sticks in the box):
(This was the mid-late 80s, not a lot of boutique options available then)
Yes, just washed out while riding, more from water splashed up from the tires than from rain falling directly on it.
I was not so concerned with corrosion as with maintaining lubricity and chain suppleness. Although corrosion might affect those conditions I guess.
Agreed. As Neptronix stated above, depends on the environment and user priorities.
Apparently water itself is a good chain lubricant? Trick is to find a reliable delivery method!
Do you know the wattage of your crockpot? How long does it take to melt 1 lb of solid wax? My PID percolator coffee pot takes around 15 to 20 min. I think the ceramic pot acts sort of like a double boiler and is safe for melting wax. Not so with my percolator coffee maker which has a 750W heater about 2" in diameter directly heating the base of the stainless pot. I'd be concerned about exceeding the flash point of paraffin wax if I did not have a PID controller on it.
The crock-pot is 120 watts on high. I melted down the two pucks (1.15 lb total) on high for about 20 minutes and they were 1/2 way liquid. I dialed back to low as some crocks exceed the boiling point (wax mfg says don't) and got busy with other projects. Checked in about 30 minutes later and all was liquid and ready to go.
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How often do you need to re-apply Drislide?
I've been using Finish Line Dry lube, which works OK but I need to re-apply it after about 5 rides. Even though it's dry, it still picks up fine dust enough to clog the chain if conditions are dusty enough.
Did you check wax temp with an immersion thermometer? How does a waxed chain ride on your bike? Notice any difference? I still have not waxed mine yet. Waiting for more stuff to arrive.
hillslayer@
100 W
I just put a pot on the stove you guys are making this way more complicated than it needs to be.
Nope. Just let the chain sit in the wax to come up to temp for a bit to be sure the wax penetrated everywhere and help shed excess after leaving the bath. Haven't even ridden yet. Crappy weather and other priorities. My definition of success is going to be longer service intervals (~500 miles between waxes?) and longer life chain and freewheel.
@hillslayer@ - Heh! I went with the little crock to simplify things. My mom used to make candles. I have waaay too many memories of double boilers.
Got the chain degreased and waxed (Dollar General candle + WS2) using my PID controlled coffee percolator, set to 90C then 55 C cool off before removing chain.
Took a ride this morning. Can't say I notice any difference in ride and shift quality. Big difference is how clean the chain is! Time will tell how well it stays clean.
Took a ride this morning. Can't say I notice any difference in ride and shift quality. Big difference is how clean the chain is! Time will tell how well it stays clean.
hillslayer@
100 W
Do it anyway you want, 500 miles might be a stretch when I was on a mid -drive that needed lots of shifts it was buttery smooth with a fresh waxed chain and gradually became a little more notchier as time went onNope. Just let the chain sit in the wax to come up to temp for a bit to be sure the wax penetrated everywhere and help shed excess after leaving the bath. Haven't even ridden yet. Crappy weather and other priorities. My definition of success is going to be longer service intervals (~500 miles between waxes?) and longer life chain and freewheel.
@hillslayer@ - Heh! I went with the little crock to simplify things. My mom used to make candles. I have waaay too many memories of double boilers.
Odo display on my TSDZ2 was at 1618 miles after I waxed the chain. I'll be keeping track of mileage vs how the chain performs. It's been riding fine. After 16 miles, I gave the chain a wipe with a white cloth. The black is the Tungsten Disulfide I suppose and not dirt + oil which would have been much more of a mess.
The first chain I did, I just dropped it into the percolator, fished it out when done and laid it on newspaper. This let's wax drip out of the rollers (where it's needed most). Not good!
Just did another chain. This time I skewered it with a long coat hanger into 9 equal length segments which makes it much easier to agitate in the wax. When time to pull the chain, inserting another skewer allow the chain to hang on the rim of the pot to drain neatly- no mess!
Just did another chain. This time I skewered it with a long coat hanger into 9 equal length segments which makes it much easier to agitate in the wax. When time to pull the chain, inserting another skewer allow the chain to hang on the rim of the pot to drain neatly- no mess!
Chalo
100 TW
It's almost like you'd benefit from a lubricant that wicks into where it's needed. Like... chain lube.
lnanek
10 kW
That looks like a super thin coating compared to what I end up with. I usually let the wax cool enough to have a skin before removing the chain. Very little drips off, but a lot comes off the first couple cranks through the drive train the next day.
Thought experiment:
If you really want to keep more wax inside the chain, let the whole thing solidify before removing the chain from the wax. For this purpose it's probably best to have a shallow flexible tray the chain lays in that you can pour some wax into after the first stage of heating the chain in the melted wax for penetration,
Reinstalling it will be messy, wiht wax chunks flying during the inital ride.
If you really want to keep more wax inside the chain, let the whole thing solidify before removing the chain from the wax. For this purpose it's probably best to have a shallow flexible tray the chain lays in that you can pour some wax into after the first stage of heating the chain in the melted wax for penetration,
Reinstalling it will be messy, wiht wax chunks flying during the inital ride.
hillslayer@
100 W
Is all the chain needs is enough wax so after it cools the links are stiff. You guys are making up unessasary stuff. To much YouTube I guess.
I wonder if a super thin coating matters? Thinking out loud, bike chains have loose tolerances between pins and rollers so it can bend sideways to allow shifting. The gaps between pins and rollers hold wax. Extras wax in the gaps gets squished out in the first pedal stroke. What remains gets squished around in the gaps and do it's lubricating magic. Maybe having super thin coating is enough? Less waste, less mess to clean up?
I did the waxing indoors on my computer desk and did not clean the chain afterwards (which was not stiff & did not want wax flying all over) other than blotting it with tissue paper as it sat on the newspaper to cool. Time will tell how long my first wax job lasts before noise starts and trouble shifting sets in.
scianiac
10 kW
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- Oct 24, 2018
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It's probably thinner because he used candles and not paraffin wax. Probably fine but I wouldn't recommend using candles, I think they sometimes put in other stuff or different types of waxes to make them cheaper. Might do some more research on that but I've heard it recommended before and candles don't always really feel like paraffin. As long as it's inside the chain between the rollers and flanges it should work the same.
