My Sun Trip Bike, Back to Back Tandem Trike with Rowing Generator, Pedals, +Solar

[Limezy]

Yep. Cool stuff and certainly a bit infectious.

This is so true ! I had never considered adding solar panels to my ebike but now it looks more and more obvious !

 

[justin_le]

Justin: I really love the fact that you share your encounters with people/places on your trip. The ride experience you've shared has been great, but the points where you mention meeting people along the way or people that helped you on your journey give me hope for the human race.

Hey thanks zro, the next 3 posts after this one I will dedicate to exactly that, since I've only touched on a fraction of the awesome encounters so far and that's my favorite aspect of this kind of trip too.

In the meantime, me and Anso have now really found the suntrip groove here in Turkey. Yesterday we did 243 km (shooting for 250 but got a flat tire just as we were closing in)

https://www.komoot.com/tour/t37718067?ref=atd

And right now, 7am sun is putting 283 watts into the batteries and if we don't leave soon they'll be fully charged! which (as I'll be explaining later) is no good

 

[fechter]

Flat tires seem to be one of the biggest issues. Someplace we need a technology improvement.

 

[wturber]

I understand that the stopping points on the map aren't accurate ... but I do find it a little amusing that the stopping point for this evening appears to be a gas station.

http://tepebasi-eskisehir.turkishbusinessworld.net/gas-station/lukoil-ali-riza-onat-tepebasi/

 

[John in CR]

Hi Justin, Awesome adventure! I figure you've got enough seat time to answer a question I've had about solar panels on a bike. Do you get much heat radiating down from the backside of the panels, or does the air flow keep them cool enough that it's no really noticeable. Down here in the tropics I still bake sometimes in the shade, not because of ambient temps which aren't that hot, but from some things giving shade absorbing so much sun that the bottom side radiates a lot of heat.

 

[e-beach]

Flat tires seem to be one of the biggest issues. Someplace we need a technology improvement.

Yea, like real flat proof tires. Not like the ones around now, something with real puncture proof material in the tire itself so we don't need to add anything between the tire and the tube. We are running motors after all, we can make up for the weight increase of the tire.

 

[wturber]

Down here in the tropics I still bake sometimes in the shade, not because of ambient temps which aren't that hot, but from some things giving shade absorbing so much sun that the bottom side radiates a lot of heat.

Yeah. I notice that in the the Phoenix area when I ride or drive (convertible) under a freeway overpass at night. You can feel the heat radiating from the concrete that is hotter than the ambient temperature.

Justin and An-So built their panels out of fiberglass reinforced foam. The reduced mass probably reduces the amount of heat they can hold and the foam is probably a good barrier to heat being radiated from the solar cells. I wonder if it makes the cells themselves more prone to overheating though?

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=93482&start=75#p1385489

 

[amberwolf]

Yea, like real flat proof tires. Not like the ones around now, something with real puncture proof material in the tire itself so we don't need to add anything between the tire and the tube. We are running motors after all, we can make up for the weight increase of the tire.

A technology change would be nice...but there are some things to mitigate the problem now, depednign on your rim size and tire availability for it.

My way was to go with simple thicker rubber tread, and it makes a significant difference (but is heavier). (I also went with fatter tires to get more "suspension" from them).

Using the Shinko [strike]SR-741[/strike] EDIT: SR-714 instead of assorted bicycle tires (even doubled up, one inside the other), I went from *at least* a flat every month on average (some of the more dramatic of which I posted about in my SBC thread), sometimes from wearing out the center tread, but mostly from road debris, to no puncture flats at all. (I have had a defective tube, and two issues with rim tape failing/moving and letting the edge of nipple holes pinch/cut the tube) Lasted almost 2.5 years so far; probably will last at least another few months to a year before center tread wears out too far. They don't cost any more than a good bike tire, but htey do weigh a few times what a bike tire does.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=67833&p=1154498&hilit=shinko+cruiser#p1154498

 

[e-beach]

......
A technology change would be nice...but there are some things to mitigate the problem now, depednign on your rim size and tire availability for it.......

Yea, but the Shinko SR-741 tires start at 70mm wide. That is too wide for me and a lot of guys on mountain bikes.

I am thinking it is time for real steel belted radial mountain bike tires with heavy tread that will work as well as your Shinko tires. I think that it is weird that they are not made already. Or if not steel belted, how about double Kevlar belts or something that is also nearly puncture proof.

 

[e-beach]

double post?

 

[billvon]

I wonder if it makes the cells themselves more prone to overheating though?

Perhaps. In commercial/residential solar installations, leaving an air gap behind the panels is critical. Several installations have had problems because the panels were directly on top of a roof or other structure, which allowed the panels to get much hotter than they otherwise would have.

However, in the case of the bike, there's usually decent airflow over the cells themselves which will help a lot. In the olden timey days too-hot panels meant moisture ingress and EVA yellowing, but nowadays it usually manifests itself as reduced output rather than damage.

 

[amberwolf]

Yea, but the Shinko SR-741 tires start at 70mm wide. That is too wide for me and a lot of guys on mountain bikes.

I meant SR-714. It might still be too wide, but I think there's a 2" version (I'm using the 2.5" on a 45 or 50mm rim; can't remember that width).

But basically any good moped/mc tire will work. If you're using wide 20" bike rims, you can use 16" moped/mc tires, if you don't mind the weight penalty (and possibly the difficulty getting them on/off the rims, though mine are easy enough).

Using moped/mc tubes helps, too, at least with the valve stem problems common to bicycle tubes, if you use the ones that have metal stems with the nuts on the base (kinda like presta, but schrader).

I am thinking it is time for real steel belted radial mountain bike tires with heavy tread that will work as well as your Shinko tires. I think that it is weird that they are not made already. Or if not steel belted, how about double Kevlar belts or something that is also nearly puncture proof.

There are some kevlar-belted bicycle tires; I don't remember the names, though a poke around good bike tire sites will probably find them. They've also been discussed on ES before, IIRC. Never tried them though.

Steel-belted...will require a lot thicker tread to contain the belts to leave enough tire thickness so they don't disintegrate soon from tire wear into the belts, especially with softer grippier compounds.

 

[wturber]

This just popped up on one of my notifications:

[youtube]_80nWPup4fc[/youtube]

 

[Cephalotus]

Yea, like real flat proof tires. Not like the ones around now, something with real puncture proof material in the tire itself so we don't need to add anything between the tire and the tube. We are running motors after all, we can make up for the weight increase of the tire.

This is a new airless system from Schwalbe: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1oPMxmIU3I (in German)

Weights 1,4kg and is said to be comparable to a 3,5 bar air pressure.

Imho for 99,99% of all road conditions good tires with air a good enough

 

[cycle9]

Justin - this is so awesome! Thanks for providing a continual source of inspiration

Like you I was skeptical on solar panels with ebikes. However, as you're proving, the efficiency now seems high enough that ebike + solar is a viable possibility.

Also, kudos for the human aspect to this: showing what is possible and making connections with people all over the world.

I look forward to seeing some new solar-powered trailers/bikes/etc from you guys in the future!

Enjoy the rest of your trip!!!


PS - have you tried putting tubeless sealant into your tubes to reduce flats? I do that with my Big Dummy ebike - I hate changing flats on that thing, so I was willing to sacrifice by adding 1oz in each wheel of rolling weight. I don't think I've had a single flat since I did that.

 

[Ishikawa]

There are some kevlar-belted bicycle tires; I don't remember the names, though a poke around good bike tire sites will probably find them. They've also been discussed on ES before, IIRC. Never tried them though.

I have been using Specialized (brand name) Assfault high pressure tires (20"x2.0) for many years without any flat. This is Kevlar belted.
Most quiet tire at high speed. Highly recommended.

 

[justin_le]

Well hopefully this is the last post I make about flat tires. But we did get another yesterday, this one on the rear wheel with the decent shape Schwalbe Marathon Plus tire and a super thick inner tube. The cause? A small piece of steel wire that looks just like the kind used to reinforce truck tires. This is the type of culprit that I thought the anti-puncture liner in the Marathon Plus tires would normally block. It was just barely barely poking through the inside of the tire itself, and seemed to have been gnawing away at a section of inner tube for some time before finally making it leak.



There seems to be a lot of luck involved with getting flats. I did the entire cross canada with just a single flat. So far on this covering less than half that distance we've had 6, but they're all explainable (3 from cracked tire sidewall, 3 from sharp road objects). A tire liner would have helped on those latter 3 as the cutting object didn't go in very deep. We've got our 'fix a flat' routine down pretty tight now and just today switched all the wheels to the 2.1" crazy bobs from the care package. The treads on the large fat tires were wearing fast and we wanted to save them in case they become really needed again later for rough roads. The roads in turkey right now are mostly fantastic and this should help reduce our rolling drag a little.


View attachment 1


In any case,flats.., just an occasional fact of life when doing long distances by bicycle.
.

 

[www.recumbents.com]

What a fantastic adventure!

I think the slime tubes would have prevented most of the flats.

-Warren

 

[justin_le]

Don't forget to lube the threads!

After the first one seized I immediately grabbed the nearest lube like substance I could find on the other hand tight bolt, which was left over butter from a restaurant. It did the trick (no galling), But on the lubed roof screw, in the end I completely sheared off all the aluminum threads from overtightening. I kinda knew better about using m5's into soft aluminum for a screw that would be tightened and loosened many times a day, and was meaning to install helicoil inserts before packing the trike, but didn't get to it.

In anycase while on the ferry I drilled and tapped some holes for stop bolts that protrude throught the curved arch and provide fixed stop points for the rolling wheels. With these in place things are working great again for us to flip the roof to the left or right while riding, and only nominal tightness is needed on the caste break screws now since the travel is stopped by these protruding bolts and the roof doesn't risk drifting down to a new angle when we hit bumps.

I'm curious. How is the back to back scheme working out for conversation and such? The setup is counter-intuitive since we are so used to facing in the direction we are traveling for obvious reasons. But it struck me as one of the really good things about youbgur trike.

The one thing that hasn't worked as well as I was expecting is communications. I thought with our heads close together like this that we'd be able to talk while riding without yelling, but that's only the case if we have a nice tailwind and no traffic. At one point we started using a walkie talkie phone app and using phone headsets to chat. It worked decently well but becomes a bit of a wire jumble trying to have the microphone pickups from the earpiece to fit at the right location.

What's worked awesome about back to back is that combined 360degree visibility. Not just for managing traffic, (rear rider can tell front rider when its safe to change lanes etc.) but also for interacting with everyone as either we pass them or they pass us. There's such a huge range or expressions and feedback that you'd never notice both facing forwards.

 

[e-beach]

Well hopefully this is the last post I make about flat tires. .......

In that way all your ES fans are rooting for you and AnSo!!!!!

......In any case,flats.., just an occasional fact of life when doing long distances by bicycle.

In that way we are all rooting for changes in bicycle tire design. IMO it is really stupid that bicycle tires have to be so tender compared to all other types of wheeled transportation. I have had that same steel belted wire strand flat as you showed in the picture.....many times in my big city. Why cars and motorcycles can roll over them and not get flats but bicycles are almost required to go flat from them probably means that manufactures have a high rate of return from the puncture resistant fables they sell to us 365 bike riders. It is time for a change.

 

[wturber]

In that way we are all rooting for changes in bicycle tire design. IMO it is really stupid that bicycle tires have to be so tender compared to all other types of wheeled transportation. I have had that same steel belted wire strand flat as you showed in the picture.....many times in my big city. Why cars and motorcycles can roll over them and not get flats but bicycles are almost required to go flat from them probably means that manufactures have a high rate of return from the puncture resistant fables they sell to us 365 bike riders. It is time for a change.

The fragility is fairly understandable for bicycles since it is important to keep the rotating mass low if you want a responsive bicycle that is fun to pedal. Steel belts and thick rubber - the things that help out car tires so much - would place a heavy burden on an ordinary bicycle. E-bikes, OTOH, can tolerate heavier tires and rims when they have a LOT more power and torque. Perhaps those ebikes limited to 250 watts don't, but many other do. We can see many e-bikers reflecting this by their use of moped and even motorcycle tires on their e-bikes.

The more I ride my ebike, the more it becomes clear that the differences between e-biking and regular cycling are substantial.

 

[justin_le]

One of our favorite delays back in Italy. Mark at Grin had stumbled on this video and sent it to us, a makeshift amusement park that is human powered!
[youtube]iCQEc736GO4[/youtube]

And what luck, it wasn't all that far away from the region of Northern italy we were biking through. However, the day we were set to go that way was the first rainy/cloudy one of our adventure. Rather than the ( zippy in some contexts) 30-32 kph speeds we'd been used to up to that point, we were now reckoning with dialing the power down to 50-100 watts and moving a heavy machine at like 15-18 kph. Then we realized that the park was only open on weekends anyways and this was a Friday. Oh hell, but we had already headed down the detour path to visit so we stuck ahead.



And THANK GOODNESS. As we arrived there was clearly some kind of private event going on, so we didn't want to disturb that. We rolled up expecting to just have a discrete peak at all the machinery and then carry on. But the trike attracted it's own attention, and soon (private event or not) the entire family came out to see what this contraption was about.





It's a total family operation that just seems too amazing to be true. The old man Bruno in the blue work jacket started this as a restaurant some 50 years ago. And on the side he started making small playground objects for kids to play on, which overtime grew more and more elaborate, eventually becoming the attraction itself. But the place at its core is a restaurant, they have expansive outdoors seating for many 100's of people and so long as you've paid for a meal then all the rides are free for kids and adults alike.



They're all made from various scrap salvage materials with a general theme of human powered, but not just in the merrygoaround Variety. During the weekend when thousands of families pass through things break down one after another and then Bruno, his grandsons, and their old time right hand man spend the 5 weekdays repairing everything for the next Saturday opening.

After explaining and demonstrating the trike rowing mechanism you could see total delight in Bruno's eyes. It was right up his alley. We went there to visit his attractions and then we became their attraction. I'm just hoping it plants a little seed so that one day we may see a row powered ride at the al pioppi amusement jungle


In the meantime though, there was work to do! One of the major rides they were in the process of rebuilding is a swing carousel contraption that was getting a whole new drivtrain, going from an original chain mechanism to a shaft drive with bevel gears, linking a human pushed drive wheel to the spinning column with swings.



Bruno was in his small workshop cutting small steel bits that they were then welding in situ to reinforce aspects of the drive that were slipping. Me and also got to be Guinea pigs and sit on the chairs while they spun up the machine to look closely at what was going on. At some stage the bevel gears were popping out and so they cut and welded reinforcement bars to hold the two perpendicular axis more tightly together. It was on the spot fabrication in action, no CAD models involved, just a keen mechanical eye and back to the shop. We still had freewheels on our mind it was fun to see the massive one that they welded here so that the swinging column would keep spinning even when the drivers stopped pushing.

View attachment 9

The two grandsons were at work helping out, having learned what they need from the old man, although one of them was going to be going back to school to study computer programming.



I was only half joking when I offered to spend a winter here doing free ride fabrication with them in exchange for room and board in Italy. Since the park was technically closed we didn't want to intrude and try the other rides, though anso did ride down the very first thing that he built, this small little slide that started it all.



In the meantime, it was of course still a restaurant. The private party was a group of hikers on a trip and after they left we were served up some Yummy polenta, pork chops, and fried mushrooms. And of course the sun came out while we were there to get some charge back in our trike.

View attachment 1

Didn't do many km that day, but that was an experience and encounter we will never forget.

 

[wturber]

The one thing that hasn't worked as well as I was expecting is communications. I thought with our heads close together like this that we'd be able to talk while riding without yelling, but that's only the case if we have a nice tailwind and no traffic. At one point we started using a walkie talkie phone app and using phone headsets to chat. It worked decently well but becomes a bit of a wire jumble trying to have the microphone pickups from the earpiece to fit at the right location.

Bummer. So it sounds like the main issue is wind noise and or traffic noise? I can imagine that for wind noise that "cat ears" might work for the rider on the pedals, but would they work in reverse for the rower?
https://www.cat-ears.com/cycling

 

[wturber]

The Al Pioppi Amusement Jungle!!!

That is so cool. Love the picture of An So on the swing (horizontal unicycle?) while the old man was pondering the repair.

 

[justin_le]

Bummer. So it sounds like the main issue is wind noise and or traffic noise? I can imagine that for wind noise that "cat ears" might work for the rider on the pedals, but would they work in reverse for the rower?
https://www.cat-ears.com/cycling

If you look closely at pictures of me with my helmet, you'll see that I've already got these! But as you say they don't do much for traffic noise which at present (highway riding) is the main disturbance.

We have quite a large 2ft. gap between our heads which was there to make more room for luggage space between the seats. I bet a back-to-back tandem with the head rests only inches apart would work better in this regards.

Now what we do when talking is make a point to both turn our heads to the same side, and then even with ambient noise we don't have to yell just talk more loud than usual.