[newbie] e-bike vendors and battery lock-in

[Tom_Roche]

summary​

General question: assume you want to buy an e-bike and you prefer to be able to purchase replacement drive-system parts (especially batteries) without vendor lock-in (defined below). Is there some available, reasonably-well-updated resource that would allow you to check the extent to which a vendor (or, better yet, which models from which vendors) constrains replacement-parts use? If not, what should such a resource look like? (candidate offered below)

Specific question (asked as a candidate record for a 'vendor lock-in table'): to what extent will I be able to purchase a replacement battery for my REI e-bike (details below) from the lowest-price generic vendor, and not directly from REI? Or would I just 'be better off' buying a replacement battery from REI? (Presuming they still stock batteries for this discontinued model, which I bought due to its {price, 50% discount}.)

details​

background​

I've been using normal/human-powered bicycles for ~50 years, but e-bikes for only 1 month, so apologies for any ignorant/uninformed statements I may make.

This thread was spawned by lnanek's reply to a somewhat-different question I posted, which turns out (based on subsequent replies after lnanek's) to depend on the question I'm asking here. (How one learns.)

I'm using the term 'lock-in' (which I've heard used in other contexts, esp computing) to summarize what lnanek talked about in the above reply (lightly edited):

Many [e-bike makers] lock down all the parts with custom CANBUS communication and you can only get a battery repaired or replaced from them[. Other e-bike makers' controllers] just need a positive wire and negative wire off the battery, like Grin's controllers.

So the 1st sentence in the quote refers to what I call (below) complete lock-in, while the 2nd sentence is what I call lock-in=none.

FWIW: I recently attempted to websearch e-bike lock-in, but I got no useful hits. Mostly I found lotsa links about bike security (presumably from the 'lock' search selector), but also this interesting Hacker News thread (archived here). So please no 'LMGTFY' replies (unless you've got a much-more-productive search selector).

what I'm looking for​

I'd like to see (or may hafta start) something like this table (but if you believe this could be done better, please reply):

e-bike make	e-bike model	e-bike model link (plus archive)	battery maker or specifier	actual battery manufacturer (if known)	battery model	battery model link (plus archive)	battery lock-in (complete/partial/none)	battery lock-in comments	replacement-purchase comments
make/brand (not the retail outlet where purchased, unless it's the "house brand")	minimally e-bike model name, with model# if available	link to model details webpage, and preferably an archived page (prevents linkrot)	'specifier' in case the battery vendor subcontracts	self-explanatory?	battery model# should be available (name if not)	~same as column#=3	Is the degree of battery lock-in complete: e.g., if you don't buy the battery from the vendor you've bought a brick partial: e.g., vendor lock-in can be defeated by [insert hack here], or ya gotta buy [insert something much cheaper than buying the vendor's battery] when you buy a 3rd-party battery. none: buy any electrically- and dimensionally-matching battery from any reputable supplier	details relevant to your lock-in rating	if you've actually purchased a replacement battery for this e-bike make/model, record experience here

Particularly, I'd like to know:

1stly: Is there already a good/in-use online resource providing the above information (possibly et al)? If so, please lemme know and I'll use that if applicable.

If not:

2ndly: Is there any additional information that one would need (or very much like) to know in order to make a resource like the above table useful?

3rdly: Based on your experience, what values {should be provided, are likely correct} for the missing values in the final 2 cells in the following sample table:

e-bike make	e-bike model	e-bike model link (plus archive)	battery maker or specifier	actual battery manufacturer (if known)	battery model	battery model link (plus archive)	battery lock-in (complete/partial/none)	battery comments	replacement-purchase comments
REI (self-retailing)	Co-op Cycles Generation e1.2 Electric Bike	https://www.rei.com/product/190640/co-op-cycles-generation-e12-electric-bike (archived here)	Bafang	Shanshan	BT F35.620.0	零部件 (archived here)	insert your lock-in rating: complete? partial? none?	insert details relevant to your lock-in rating	hoping to mine your experience (but will record mine, because I definitely want a spare)

Thanks in advance for providing {useful information, informed guesses} for folks new to the e-bike domain in general (its components and their markets especially), and for your time/effort.

 

[Tom_Roche]

Totally-off-topic question for forum admins: I notice my link to a Bafang webpage got replaced with hanzi. Is this Standard Operating Procedure here?

 

[offGridDownUnder]

1stly: Is there already a good/in-use online resource providing the above information (possibly et al)? If so, please lemme know and I'll use that if applicable.

Yes.
Here.

 

[docw009]

It's way too much bother to fill in a table like that. If this is what you bought, it's a widely available battery on the third party market. And if you cannot find the exact match, it's not hard to buy a similar battery with cradle. Youe remove the one on the bike and attach the new one,


I believe it uses a 48V14AH battery. You can use 48V batteries with higher or lower than 14AK, but I would go with at least the same, The REI website shows an H/L logo on the battery, so it's a Hailong case.

The Hailong cases use a variety of bases, so you have to determine whether your seller has the right one that matches your bike.

Best thing to do, when the time comes, is to buy it from REI and get the right one. It will likely cost more than an equivalent third party battery, but I am sure REI uses reputable vendors. Most of the vendors on ebay/amazon are littke cottage industry sellers. They can only make money selling batteries to individuals by buying really cheap ones and marking them up.

 

[leffex]

summary​

General question: assume you want to buy an e-bike and you prefer to be able to purchase replacement drive-system parts (especially batteries) without vendor lock-in (defined below). Is there some available, reasonably-well-updated resource that would allow you to check the extent to which a vendor (or, better yet, which models from which vendors) constrains replacement-parts use? If not, what should such a resource look like? (candidate offered below)

Specific question (asked as a candidate record for a 'vendor lock-in table'): to what extent will I be able to purchase a replacement battery for my REI e-bike (details below) from the lowest-price generic vendor, and not directly from REI? Or would I just 'be better off' buying a replacement battery from REI? (Presuming they still stock batteries for this discontinued model, which I bought due to its {price, 50% discount}.)

Your local vendor or vendors may have very good general information about what they are selling. If you ask you may either get a yes or a no for the lock-in question or a rant about something that they believe is true as they may not always know what's inside the batteries.

Some good questions can be apart from the former one if they offer spare batteries and if they have them in stock and different sizes for that particular model ebike you are looking for. If the base (battery mount looks fastened like the above) you can exchange it unscrewing two screws. If that's not the case it can be more tricky to adapt a new battery to your bike as an insurance for the future. "Not locked" type of batteries thus does only limit themselves if they can't be mounted to a bike frame.

Specific answer is that the "Hailong" type on your ebike would be a common "not locked in" battery. Yes, I would say they are very common but to be 100% on the sure side it is the best to buy from the vendor you bought from or from your local store where you can fit it to the bike and power it up at the risk of the "seller" as this is a good reward to sell a battery to you. That is fair.