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Qulbix 165/140 Raptor /NYX Carbon - Sabvoton/Adaptto - 20s/22s Build #5


1 MW
Jan 29, 2013
Hey Buddies,
iam still 99% Ready with my Raptor.
i was tired of questions how to solve Problems with Space for Battery, Possible Offroad Suspension and so on...
so i decide to go with a Raptor....
Just Buy a Frame that is build for a Big Hub and lots of Battery Space, wires etc…

I have ordered from a German Distributor the Frame:
It’s a Nice Guy who Build Bikes with patience and Love...
I ordered also the CroMotor from him and he laced it to my Favorite Downhill Rims (Mavic EX729)

My experience with that Rims and Sapim strong Spokes on my 4080 with 10KW was total satisfying for 5000km without any Broken or losen Spoke.
I know the user who buyed it and he has done at least 1000km too without any Problems.
I know Most People go with big MX Spokes and swear about MX Rims.
But rotating Mass of Wheel and the Look like an Motorcycle I was trying to minimize it.
Also for chaning Tires easy.

At the End you can read my Partlist. Its not just an Raptor. It is a Build with Eyecandys for me, so the Price was not the Important Part.
(No need to Buy a 2000$ Fork for that Bike)

Now the “Funny-Parts” of Building a Raptor.

I will not make my Story too long because you al want to see Pics and Videos, so here in Short:

- Every Cromotor comes with a too Long Thread for the Freewheel.
There are a lot of Discussions here about a Freewheel/Singlespeed to find that fits better the long Thread.
Happy to everyone who has a engine lathe(or CNC)
I don’t have one. And after finding out that the Chainline looks horrible when theres a 6-9mm GAP between Motor and Freewheel
I opened my toolbox and a handsaw did the rest. Carefully. Don’t know, maybe iam a Magican. I hit it on first try pefect and the Threads wasn’t a Problem.
(After/Before Pics below)

The Raptors Headtube of 15cm is the longest you ever find on a “bicycle”. Too long for most (Triple)Forks.
I wanted the Air Suspension to prevent me trying a lot of Springs. So I go with a FOX40 Kashima Coated for the Bling Factor.
The Problem with the 15cm: You have to setup the lower Bridge about 1,5cm. But that means when you setup your suspesnsion right
(and use all the 200mm travel) you can hit the Top Bridge and Broke your Fork.
The HOPE upper fork crown is 2,5cm higher and the steem already included. Looks nice, Stiff like hell. And it fits the complete Travel Range of 203mm.

The Original Holes for Charing XLR, Keyswitch(Ignition), Display and bench seat….
Because theres no Problem drilling Holes for us, I would Prefer a template for holes. So you can use it when you want or need.
The XLR Charing Connector is a Joke. (Its just for 15A Charging enough)
The Keyswitch is from PC Housing or movable Harddisks. Smooth is something other. (Is anybody here that uses this Original Keyswitch? Don’t think so :p)
Display Hole was Ok. As I don’t like the CA on Handlebar with all wires jumping around. I used a Dremel to fit a CAv3 inside.
The Seat Bench Holes….No need for that. All I can do is Cover it with the Qulbix Sticker whats including the Frameset.
The Original Keyswitch Hole, I “Closed” it with my CA Poti. This Poti is to stepless setup Power Level in Mode 3 (Mode 1 and 2 for Setup PAS Wattage)
I used the Charging XLR Hole to Fit my own Keyswitch (Its from a Harley Motorcycle…..link below)

Seattube…you have only to know that it is a 30.9mm diameter. Why not using most used 31,6mm I don’t know.
The Shortest will fit (and you have to shorten it anyway)

Headset is a 1 1/8” (its SEMI INTEGRATED) 44mm.
Try not to buy the cheapest one. The Frame is Steel. It is not easy like Aluminium Frames to bring it in Place.

Swingarm and Clamping of the Hub Motor looks great. No need for Torque arm ever.

The Downside has a few threaded holes. For 18FET Infineons and also 24FET.
When you go with a Raptor, I don’t know why not go for a 24fet anyway. The Place is there, so what.
When you order you can chose by different Types of Controller Protection. The small one for 18fet or smaller or the Kelly One (You need this for a 24fet)
Also the Bicycle Seat triangle you can chose between two sizes. (iam 180cm high and the -20mm was a good decision because high Suspension Shock the Bike is really HIGH!)
But atm I think Qulbix only sell his new 140er Raptor and it has a different Seat triangle.

So the Next thing where you have to Think about. What Rear Suspension to use. I can only tell you my Experience.
The Raptor can Handle 10” of Travel, so I want to use it. I ordered a FOX RC4 Factory with 267x89mm Diameter. And the Problem starts when you want to use the first Hole
For the Shock. With 85-90Kg of Rider weight you need a 400 Spring. And the Spring cap hits the Shock Adapter of the Frame.
No chance to insert a 450 or 500 Spring. (btw it was to stiff)

With the first Hole using a 267mm Shock the Bike is still tall/high. When you have some Road commute orientations and want a sidestand…you have the next Problem.
Atm I use a Humpert really Long/stiff one…
But it is not High enough. I have to Build an Adapter. Someone know a better one? Let me know….thx.

Bottom Bracket / Crank. That sux in every way. Theres not enough room to go over 38T Chainring.(Swing arm starts here)
And with a Singlespeed with 16T you have only 16mph/26km/h Speed on Pedaling the Bike.
For me It must have Speed above 40kph, because I commute daily to work. On the Street, and I have to Pedal to be (or look as good as I can)legal.
Also I like it to Pedal my own 100watt on Top for Fitness. No matter how much Juice I need to bring the Monster rollin….its just for me to sweat.
So I ended up searching and asking around who has a Geared Crank ….ATS (Licence Build from Schlumpf innovations), Patersson and Hammerschmidt.
The difference between all?
ATS has no 83mm BB
Patersson also no 83mm BB
Hammerschmidt has 83mm BB and it is for Downhill. But only with 1,6:1 Ratio and you have to Shift on Handlebar.
Schlumpf High Speed Drive. Qulbix sell it now too. They have 83mm BB and Ratio 2,5:1.
Some already know. I ended up with the Schlumpf Drive. I ordered. I get it. I shaped and milled the BB. It fits.
But hey, it is not in the middle?!?! On the left I have 8mm Freespace to crankarm. On the other 18mm *wtf*
A 1000$ Crank and it don’t fits out of the Box in a normal 83mm BB? ….yes, after a lot of Email with Haberstock mobility in Germany the Circle goes around
And landet safe to Qulbix. They confirmed: It doesn’t fit out of the Box. You have to Shape/Mill it 3-5mm more of you Frame that you get it in the Middle.

Whats about switching to a normal Crank like Hollow II ? Will the Threads be enough? Don’t know. Some well known buddies here say yes. So maybe it would be…
That was not a nice Journey and about that Price I am not happy.
Unfortunately you have no option when you want to Pedal 15-18km/h in small Gear and 45-47km/h in Ratio Gear.
Something about the Crankarm Quality:

So that was the Hardware Part….
My Electric Journey starts with a Lyen 24FET 4115 Controller. Ordered. Powder coated it Black and Some Bitch Throttle Stuff happened who no one can explain.
It is still to lyen to Repair. As a lot of People know. He is always busy (Except of Selling new Controllers :p ….did I say that?) anyway.
Maybe I have to be lucky for that last experience of a Infineon Controller because I wanted along time a SINE WAVE Controller like Adapptos.
Most of you were reading this und know about adappto you also know answering emails is just a small window you MAYBE have the luck to get an answer.
In 4 words: I NEED A PAS….without PAS I have no Chance to tell about everything or something. Iam illegal, story is over. But the Russian Guys need no PAS,
So theres no interest of implementing a PAS. So Europes and Australians…Forget about that.
Then I found Sabvoton. Not lightweight Controller and also not a little one. In fact: don’t look for it when you want a clean DIY Build with a normal Bicycle.
24x24,4x6cm and 2,2Kg weight. Its for 150A Battery and 350Phase amps. And yes. Its underrated totally. The Cromotors sweats already like a Bull in Texas
And the Controller is not even warm like your hand. (Still waiting for a Bluetooth adapter to read out everything you can read out with a pc. All you need:
Android Handy)…Really cool. When a cop gets you and know about a Cav3 and his Modes, you take your phone “for a call” and make a *click*
And Legal! :D

With the Lyen Highway Controller I was intend to Drive 30s. Because Cromotor is slower than Xlyte 4080 you get only about 70kph with 20s.
With 30s your Raptor will run about 115kph in 26” Rim. Crazy fast, yep. But it’s a steelframe with has no Problem to Drive Roller/Motorcycle Speeds.

The Sabvoton only can Handle up to 100v. There are 4110 inside. The Official Voltage is 95v. In your Software you can Setup 100v.
All Settings you do, cannot destroy the Controller. When you setup something stupid like 1000 Phase amps. You cant store it. By a click it goes to Maximum.
Well, maybe not for some of us limit finders, but who needs more than 12-15KW?!
This controller has also Protection about OVERVOLTAGE, OVERCURRENT, OVERHEATING…..Some would say ohhh woowwwww….
But to be Honest. We are in 2014. Theres no Controller on the Market who hasn’t that features. (With Market I mean the Real one…not the Toolbox builder stuff)
Maybe it sounds a bit bad mouthing. So I will only say, theres something other outside and when it fits, you don’t need to go with infindeon and a bit of luck if
The controller Is living next day or when you ride a steep hill. I use them with another bikes and here are they totally okay. When they run, fine.
But be carefull to do something wrong with the XPD or the 1000 times hacked Software where you can kill your Controller/FETS in 1 second.(Blocktime for referrer)

Whatever…don’t look that my posting is just short LOL. Maybe someone has really read to here :D
In Fact this Story is may complete Ebike experience from near 2 years.

When Someone has ever ridden a Ebike with a real TORQUE THROTTLE you will never go back to that jerky Speed Throttle. Good for small Bikes with less Power.
But on Big Bikes forget about everything except a REAL TRQ Throttle.
This Controller is stock shipped with 10KHZ Frequency….Some early buyers hear about the 10Khz. And yes. Not that Silence you expect buying a Sinewave Controller.
But you can also order the 16KHZ Version. This is absolute Silence. I will make some Videos to Show it. Really cool just to hear the Tire eating the Street :p

You can Setup you Throttle in Software easy from 0-5v. Set the Midrange Voltage for Higher Torque at low speeds.
Adjust the Throttle delay between 0 and 2sec.

And whats about the 45mph with 20s Lipos (84v)? The Controller has the Field Weakening Feature (FOC). Don’t ask me what it means in every bite.
But you can setup the Weakening amps to get more Speed.
That is for sure the Most important Part of that Controller. Up to the Normal Speed of the Motor (with Voltage X) you run in the Silent efficiency Mode.
Above that, the controller boosts about that amps you are setup and get speed about 55-60mph (!!!!!)
The Controller eats now more amps. Is less efficient and heat up more. BUT for me it is just for some Speed runs. ATM I have setup to 50A.
In Manual is a Range up to 100A for that. With 50a I get with no Problem 58MPH.
But I will try some More to see what happen 

Enough about Controller Stuff.

Last Point: My Battery. I setup my 24 pieces of turnigy 35-70c Batteries to 10s6P and have a wire to make a 20s 6p
I have sorted out the best of 40 pieces. Measured all about capacity and wired all in that way that the best is with the weakest and so on.

I have now a real usable capacity of 2,6KWH onboard!

No Place inside the Raptor and A HELL PITA to throw the Batterys in there….20 minutes I need to wire it up and Close the Box.
So only Charge direct on the Bike.
Whats the Benefit of that Battery? …..squeezing out 150AMPS I have a Voltage SAG of just 3v. (!!!)

Maybe some stuff I think about later. Now iam Tired of Writing. Some Videos will come up.
Here just a "overview"
not Really sorted..... :p

I think this will some People Help to Think about what to Buy or use.

The Weight now without Fenders are 58,5 KG (!) Its Heavy and so it rides. for a Motorcycle it is a lightweight. For a Bike it is Heavy.
I like my Heavy Motor-Cycle ;)















































These Prices (€URO) are Normal Prices. I had some good conditions sometimes...

1250 Raptor Frameset
590 CroMotor v3
032 SingleSpeed Ritzel 16T Shimano
300 Sabvoton 6KW Black Controller
1250 Lipos 24x 5s5000 35-70C TNT
150 Cycle Analyst v3
016 Halter CA
030 CA v3 Poti
021 PAS 12Magnete
055 Magura Throttle
007 Batterie-AntiSpark
015 2 Stufen Schalter Reku
040 Kabel+Stecker
350 Dämpfer FOX RC4 2013
1375 Gabel FOX 40 float 2014
350 Bremsen Hope v4
120 Felgen Mavic EX729
180 Felgen einspeichen + Speichen Sapim Strong 2x
068 Nabe Hope Pro
175 Hope Gabelbrücke Blau
061 Lenker 80mm Rise Kore Rivera
085 Reifen Maxxis Minion 2.7x26
006 Schlauchband Schwalbe
015 Schläuche AV13D
024 Sattelstüzen klemme Hope Seat Clamp QR
067 Sattelstütze Thompson Elite 30.9
060 Sattel Selle SMP TRK Gel
040 Steuerlager
040 Pedale Shimano Saint
005 Steuersatz Spacer
026 Pro Ride Grips Blue
012 Seitenständer Humpert Extrem
693 Schlump High Speed Drive + Werkzeug
012 Spiegel B&M 12
006 Spiralschlauch
7526 =====TOTAL ...*WTF :shock:
Thank you, Merlin for a detailed and thorough report. You put out quite an effort on this and it is much appreciated.
Thanks for the report of your experiance, very valuable! I am about to build two 30s cromotor bikes, do you think this is too much volts for the cro? i will be running kelly 96251... :mrgreen:
Excellent write up Merlin, and great looking Raptor!

How are you finding the kickstand supporting all that weight? Any major flex?
riba2233 said:
What is your maximum battery amps?

Maximum Battery Amps 150A. Looks fine at 20s. 12KW is great "allround" Power.

hydro-one said:
Thanks for the report of your experiance, very valuable! I am about to build two 30s cromotor bikes, do you think this is too much volts for the cro? i will be running kelly 96251... :mrgreen:

No, many People are on the way with 30s. That was my first Idea before i know about Field Weakening ;D

marcn said:
Excellent write up Merlin, and great looking Raptor!

How are you finding the kickstand supporting all that weight? Any major flex?

Thx, the Kickstand "would" be Okay. But the Angle is to much atm. IT flexes for me to much to feel safe.
I have to put an 3cm Adapter. The Beast will get 2 More Kg because of Fenders. I need it all-day Usable.
Fenders will look a bit ugly...but thats the PRice ;D
A PITA was also setting up the Brakes.
4 Pistons are more Difficult to setup. That was new for me....It took me hours to make them Perfect running without scratching (after hard brake)

new Spring is on the Way. These Days i will do my Suspension setup. Its a bit to plush for now. Good for Stairs up and down, but i like it more stiff and clear.
Nice use of old socks :wink:
Nice build. thanks for the very detailed read, I loved it.

Only thing I would suggest: You have wire ties holding the Cromotor exit wires. They can break and then you got problems with that kinda power. I took a 5/16" wide hose clamp and put a couple layers of heat shrink over it and used that instead on my Raptor. I have way more piece of mind now. Just my opinion


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i had also the metal hose clamp. but never thought about shrink tube. thats an good idea. will change to it. thx.
I see you are also going with a schlumpf drive. are you happy with it?
last day i have tried 3 chain tensioner and no one fit as i want.
i dont see any chance to use a single speed tensioner because of 3,5" Shock length. Today i will buy a normal "2 Wheel" tensioner like yours.


Whats that Bike lamp?
Damn Merlin, how much battery is in your build? Very very nice by the way. Great job shaving the spacer for the disk. When you going with a MC rear wheel?
If you go with the Schlumpf...Just make damn sure you machine the frame with their tool to the proper dimensions or it will spin in the frame. i have three bike with it and would use nothing else.One other bit of advice. Take the little 1mm set screws and throw them away and use button head for the screws that go into the chrome shoft knobs. Theset screws will strip and then you are screwed for working on it.
Went riding today and fell in some grass. Was a really slow fall too, maybe 12mph. I rolled it off and hurt my legs a bit. I noticed the bottom guard got bend from the fall. I pulled a bit straight and wondered what would of happened if my controller was installed within the cage.

Rix said:
Damn Merlin, how much battery is in your build? Very very nice by the way. Great job shaving the spacer for the disk. When you going with a MC rear wheel?

Hey Rix,
its 2,6Kwh of Juice in it. (24x 5s5000 35c Lipos) I buyed 50 of it, tested all packs of maximum Capacity (3,5v <- 4,2v) and the best of them had 5,2Ah Capacity.
i build the 10s Packs with the best and weakest together. sqeezing out 150a Batterty amps i have a voltage sag just about 4v (!)

i thought the same about the little 1mm screw. thx for that idea ;)


iam wondering how you hit the controller protector when it is behind the wheel ( but i know bullshit happens)
this Protector is only for hiding the controller and little rocks from riding. the "one screw" mount cant Protect it from a crash.

i had a little crash too....
right in front of my garage :roll:
the PAS had kicked in cornering and thats it.
first thought was WTF OMG now all is scratched. But surprisingly it was only the Mirror and the Pedal. NOTHING ELSE. Like Crash PAds on a Motorcycle.
..but a few minutes later i found the crankarm is buckled alot :cry:
it was a slow speed fall off and the arm from the Schlumpf is the poorest quality i have ever seen. Not a penny worth (!)




A day later my "Fender-Try-Out" stops me again....a screw comes losen, and on a little gap on street the Fender fells down and rolls complete on my Backwheel.
Brand new, totally flooded with bumps and scratches *f**k
(Photo dont show all bumps at all)


i decide to go with that fender. take a few hours and a hammer, some black paint and make it fit again.

now Rain can lick my ass at 30-40 mph :p


The PAS only gets 1000w from the Cycle Analyst. But when the Throttle Signal is not set to Current (From pass thru) the PAS sometimes kicks in with to much Power.
In the Wrong moment something like that happen.
Needless to say, without a Cycle Analyst a PAS would be totally bullshit ;)

edit: iam surprised that alot of people dont know that you can use a PAS with set'able Wattage (like 1000) and using a throttle (with full power) too.
i will make a video to show that using a PAS is very helpfull.
Merlin said:
The PAS only gets 1000w from the Cycle Analyst. But when the Throttle Signal is not set to Current (From pass thru) the PAS sometimes kicks in with to much Power.
In the Wrong moment something like that happen.
Needless to say, without a Cycle Analyst a PAS would be totally bullshit ;)

edit: iam surprised that alot of people dont know that you can use a PAS with set'able Wattage (like 1000) and using a throttle (with full power) too.
i will make a video to show that using a PAS is very helpfull.

Merlin, if the wattage is settable, it would seem that you could make the bike very easy to ride with low power (e.g. 500w). However, the big question is when the cycle analyst was not set to "current." Can you explain more about how this occured? Does it default to a different setting when turned off?
Merlin do you have the CAv3 set to AutoPAS or are you using the emulator to ramp up power? So you lost control taking a corner when PAS came on at the full 1000w, ie no ramp up?

When you look at the Pic where you can see the CA. Then take a look over the Keyswitch "Ignition".
this little Poti can Handle the PAS Power from 0-1200w (or whatever you want)

So yep youre right. I Pedal that Monster with 100w only when i circle around with girlfriend or my dog.
no need to "Throttle" all the time.

"out of the box" the Cycle Analyst is setup to "Pass-Thru". (This works for normal and low powered ebikes.)
On High Powered Bikes example: 10KW you have to setup a "controllable" Ramp Time for the Throttle. Without a ramp time it is just a tick moving your wrist and the bike shoots forward.

But i Copy&Paste the Info from the Manual. Tekletik knows better then me ;)

1.2.6 Throttle Enhancements
The V3 provides three means to enhance throttle operation:
• throttle/controller voltage matching,
• throttle ramping, and
• optional feedback-based throttle modes.
1. Throttle dead zones and motor creep occur when the throttle output voltage range is not identical to the
throttle input range of the motor controller. The Cycle Analyst provides configuration options to match the
requirements of these two devices without the use of a meter or other test equipment.
2. Configurable throttle ramping provides a means to smooth the application and removal of controller power.
This is of particular value to vehicles with powerful motors or with motors/drivetrains containing gears,
clutches, chains, etc. Ramping is universally applied to the generated Throttle Out signal and so affects all
operation, not just the operator throttle. This feature can make the bike more controllable and can safeguard
drivetrain components.
3. Perhaps the most valuable throttle features are the optional closed-loop feedback modes: Current, Power, or
Speed Throttle. In these modes the operator throttle is routed to the V3, not the controller, and provides a
0-100% target for the Cycle Analyst to achieve. This percentage is configured to apply to one of the
configured maximum current, power, or speed limits. Based on the desired Watts/Amps/mph set by the
operator throttle, the V3 examines the present speed, shunt, and/or battery voltage and continuously
computes the necessary controller throttle voltage to achieve the operator target. With Current Throttle for
example, turning the throttle 10% with a configured maximum current limit of 40A runs the motor at 4A
regardless of terrain or load. This fly-by-wire approach masks quirky controller/motor behavior by making
difficult controller throttle adjustment the responsibility of the CA, not the operator.

I hope it helps and answer your question.
marcn said:
Merlin do you have the CAv3 set to AutoPAS or are you using the emulator to ramp up power? So you lost control taking a corner when PAS came on at the full 1000w, ie no ramp up?

Yes ia have AUTO PAS.
and yes. i did a narrow turn and the PAS kicks in without a ramp. But not with only setted 1000w. It kicks in with 3-4KW (!)
In Justins Cycle Analyst Topic i have allready reported.
Some of that stuff is on Justins Todo list. Unfortunately not really much using a PAS with High Powered Setups.