"Realistically I think we need to use oil & gas because":

[Hillhater]

?…are You suggesting that other countries, such as Nepal, do not have friendly people and communities ?
But of course you may not find it so easy to cycle around Nepal, as its a bit hillier than Austin and the roads/tracks are a little rough !

 

[JackFlorey]

Thats just theory

Nope. That's math.

And that is how theories are disproven !
All the climate predictions have been wildly INACCURATE,

Nope. Every IPCC prediction since 1990 has been fairly accurate, and they have been becoming more so all the time. Even earlier predictions have been fairly accurate.

Sawyer, 1973 - predicted warming of .6C by 2000, actual warming between .51 and .56C. 90% accurate.

Hansen 1981 - 74% accurate.

IPCC 1990 - predicted warming of 1C over 1970-2016. Actual is .85C. 85% accurate.

IPCC 2001 - 86% accurate.

IPCC 2007 - 86% accurate.

For a simple comparison between a climate scientist's predictions and a climate change denier predictions, consider this graph of NASA scientist James Hansen's predictions vs climate change denier Richard Lindzen. Which one do you think you'd lean towards?

 

[JackFlorey]

Rather than to just blindly accept the theory that it is is all down to man made CO2 !

No one has claimed "it's all down to man made CO2." For example, a smaller percentage of the forcing is due to anthropogenic methane releases.

 

[ilu]

https://xkcd.com/1732/

 

[ZeroEm]

One thing to remember, the earth was hotter but we were not here. Supposed to be moving into a ice age we are not. As the Sun get older it get's bigger and hotter. We will cause a run away methane event, this will drastically reduce our numbers. Oil and gas can be replaced, we just don't want to spend the money.

 

[JackFlorey]

Jack,
How does the 'world' reduce the warming trend? You have the floor.

Via:
Reduction of global warming gases (mainly CO2 and methane)
Reduction of deforestation
Reduction of land-use patterns that cause albedo reductions

People who experience sub zero termperatures in north America and Canada refuse to live in igloo's or ice caves like our ancestors.

Sounds like you are trying to make the argument that "since some people will benefit from warming, it's not always a bad thing." That's absolutely true. But since we have a society that is based on adapting to NORMAL (not very rapid) changes in climate - and since the biosphere relies on the same - those changes are going to have an overwhelmingly negative effect to both us and the biosphere. Think mass extinctions.

Putting all those solar panels on top of people's houses that get wiped out in the first springtime hail storm

PV panels are rated for hail.

connected to big expensive storage batteries that don't have much energy to store because the sun doesn't shine in the winter of northern states

The sun doesn't shine in the winter? The sun shines in the winter everywhere between the two Arctic circles - and the vast majority of people live outside the Arctic circles.

If you want to be taken seriously, perhaps get the basics right.

It keeps chopping in half all the electric BMW's that drive too close.

Ha!

Switching to electric automobiles 'for the world'...passenger cars account for 45% of the world's transportation vehicles X 14% which is the contribution of ground transportation to emissions in the world and transitioning to Electric cars powered by coal and fossil fuel generated Electricity

Why on Earth would you do that? Transition to EV's powered by wind and solar. They really are the cheapest form of power. Their one problem is they are intermittent; they don't generate power all the time. Since EVs don't need to be charged all the time, they are a perfect match.

but there goes that ideological non-value added part of the tree hugging equation...the very same people who denigrate Capitalism

You are watching too much FOX News. The best argument for switching to renewables is profit.

So Jack, you have the floor. Give us a paragraph of how the 'world' not just America has to change.

Changes:

Catenaries for long distance EV trucking
Build out of solar and wind
Build out of grid scale storage
Build out of nuclear base load plants (note that this takes decades so we best start now)
Buildout of HTGR's for hydrogen production (even longer timeframes)
Balance of power from natural gas and eventually biogas
Transition to thermal solar for cement manufacture
Use of second life EV batteries for distributed storage (solves two problems at once)

For starters.

America will never be Napal Chalo likes to quote even though Napal

Nepal, not Napal. No one says we have to be Nepal. What would be great is to get our fossil-based energy usage per capita down to near that of the Nepalese.

 

[CONSIDERABLE SHOUTING]

People believe Electrical energy is clean. It is mostly dirty and is generated by the very same energy that is demonized by the left that flunked math in school.

Hey buddy.

If you uh, wanna be taken seriously, you might not wanna paint people who disagree with you as "DA LEFT", especially when coal power causes Up to 1.37 Million cases of Lung cancer and thus, is enormously expensive in many, many other ways.

 

[Hummina Shadeeba]

People who experience sub zero termperatures in north America and Canada refuse to live in igloo's or ice caves like our ancestors.

Sounds like you are trying to make the argument that "since some people will benefit from warming, it's not always a bad thing." That's absolutely true.

I think he’s saying someone who is economically poor and isolated (off the grid)isn’t going to give up their propane heater unless it’s replaced by an equally cheap and effective substitute. I agree. To co-op EVERYONE the solution needs to be just as convenient and cheap as burning.

Trying to transfer away from something as deeply rooted to our history as sitting around a campfire.. it better be a good substitute or it’s not going to happen.


And the politicians as said have their own seemingly bigger problems. They and their constituents aren’t interested in fighting an invisible boogeyman.

I feel like I’m on the cusp of civilization. That’s been said before but these next coming generations have obstacles like never before.

 

[Hummina Shadeeba]

global warming will exasperate all of human’s problems nuclear Armageddon potential included.

(I think I’m being repeatedly signed-out of my account here and think it’s by the admin due to my being in this convo)

 

[Chalo]

(I think I’m being repeatedly signed-out of my account here and think it’s by the admin due to my being in this convo)

If you're using WiFi or cell data, it's probably your device being indecisive about which access point to use.

 

[eMark]

At least we all agree that we all would be better off using less gas, oil and coal ...
(although some may still want to debate whether we would be better off) and so it goes

 

[Hummina Shadeeba]

50 years from now your kids can have a
seemingly big slice of what is really a sliver of of an over-sliced, too-hot, radioactive, void of anything but crust, inedible pie. Sadly they will likely think they’re winners too.

 

[eMark]

Shaq can't figure out relativity like Einstein could. Einstein was short and couldn't dunk a basketball. Human's don't naturally share. We only share to survive but moreover we compete to survive.

At least we all agree that we all would be better off using less gas, oil and coal ...

Although you may still want to debate whether we would be better off. If so whether sarcastic, serious or tongue-in-cheek GO For It ... by stating your "truth" that Capitalists are better off using just as much gas, oil and coal going forward than less going forward.

 

[CONSIDERABLE SHOUTING]

Jack,
Sounds like you have a clear vision for saving the planet.
Why isn't the world on board if this roadmap is so sound?
I will even give you a softball speaking of MSNBC and your favorite Joy Reid where you get your news facts from... What is the probability all the things you believe that should be implemented will occur in time to save the planet? Have you spoken to President Xi lately or Putin or Kim? Btw, don't bother calling Zelenskiy. He is worried about not having any population left in the next couple of years so he likely won't be objective. You could ask Putin also about these chances. No harm in calling Ebrahim Raisi although he may have his hands full with the Nuclear Treaty. How about Abdul Ghani Baradar, latest leader of the Taliban the US consented to get released from jail in 2018 from Pakistan? I am sure he would like to see your plan and talk turkey about saving Afghanistan.

I am sure all will be on board. Your best bet I believe hands down however is Bill Nye the Science Guy. He will agree with you and between the two of you, I believe your energy policy has a real shot although you have haven't discussed funding yet...or timeline. Wonder why those small details never get mentioned? I know. They have classes for that.

Btw, with 'your vision' of imminent decimation of human's and presumably animals we will eat to stay alive and cook for thermal warming when Armagedón strikes, what is your timeline for the end of humanity? I want to prepare so I can get my sock drawer rearranged. Better to be safe than sorry.

This dumbass lmao

 

[eMark]

Sorry to stoop to your level, but we can do cartoons. What the bottom of sign says for the guy above who never learned lower case in grade school...lol.

Up until now i would have never believed that you could or would so stoop to that "level"

You're a far better man than to be dragged down. Delete your cartoon reply. Please do find something more representative of your better judgement to post before Nicobie locks with your reply intact. Is this how you want to be remembered per your enlightened "debate" ??

 

[JackFlorey]

I think he’s saying someone who is economically poor and isolated (off the grid)isn’t going to give up their propane heater unless it’s replaced by an equally cheap and effective substitute.

Something cool is happening down here.

San Diego has a moderately large homeless population. Go into a parking lot or field where there is an encampment and you will see dozens of solar panels charging power banks, charging cellphones, running little fans and charging lights. Used and discarded, generally. But they still work, and a little bit of power is worth a lot to someone with very little to begin with.

 

[JackFlorey]

Jack,
Sounds like you have a clear vision for saving the planet.
Why isn't the world on board if this roadmap is so sound?

It is. Solar and wind are increasing dramatically year over year.

I will even give you a softball speaking of MSNBC and your favorite Joy Reid where you get your news facts from

You once again fail.

What is the probability all the things you believe that should be implemented will occur in time to save the planet?

Save the planet? Are you nuts? Nothing we can do will destroy the planet. We could have a full-on nuclear war and most plants and cockroaches wouldn't care much.

Of course we _do_ have the power to make the planet more miserable for ourselves and for higher animals, and have been trying to do that for about 150 years now. Fortunately we have learned from our mistakes and are beginning to change course. It will, of course, take time.

I am sure all will be on board. Your best bet I believe hands down however is Bill Nye the Science Guy. He will agree with you and between the two of you, I believe your energy policy has a real shot although you have haven't discussed funding yet...or timeline.

Funding:

$7 billion for battery supply chain improvements
$1.5 billion for battery recycling
$3.5 billion for weatherization and insulation for low income households
$500 million for efficiency improvements at schools
$5 billion for transitioning away from diesel school buses to EVs
$56 million for incentives for US production of solar-PV panels
$11 billion to improve the grid's resilience
$2.5 billion for long distance HVDC transmission lines
$3 billion to add grid scale storage
$6 billion to rebuild existing nuclear power plants
$700 million to improve hydro facilities

That's one bill in one country alone (the USA.)

Btw, with 'your vision' of imminent decimation of human's and presumably animals

Please get your information from the real world and not FOX News strawmen.

 

[JackFlorey]

Capitalism. Ayn Rand's novel, Atlas Shrugged Greed is good...or, greed is instinctively who/what man is. Why? To survive. Better than survive? To flourish and prosper. Call it a safety margin. Abundance. To the point we may even share with those less fortunate.

Ayn Rand famously divided the world into builders and takers - people who lived off the public tit.

Of course, when she needed social security and medicare, programs she regularly attacked, she took them.

There's a lesson there.

Darwin was right. Capitalism. Animals eat one another in the jungle. Within a pack of Wolves there is a dominant Wolf, the alpha.

You are confusing many separate things here.

Capitalism works well as a way to allocate and value consumer goods. It is a terrible way to run a society, which is why we don't use it for things better taken care of by socialism - like, say, the military, police, EMS, roads, the CDC, veterans hospitals etc etc.

"Animals eat one another in the jungle" - and some eat plants. Both work just fine.

The whole "alpha wolf" thing is a myth. And humans are not wolves, and we evolved to live in a different sort of society. These evolutionary drives work well to allow us to live in groups of 10-1000. Beyond that the very same social instincts that help us live together in a small society work against us in larger societies. If you want more info on this I can recommend "Moral Tribes" by Joshua Greene.

https://sciencenorway.no/ulv/wolf-packs-dont-actually-have-alpha-males-and-alpha-females-the-idea-is-based-on-a-misunderstanding/1850514

Survival of the fittest. Capitalism is an analog for 'human nature'.

Before the Civil War in the US, it was an excellent analog. People were literally bought and sold.

It no longer is a good analog.

People aren't equal and why socialism doesn't create Apple or Microsoft or Tesla.

Socialism got us to the Moon.
Socialism got us nuclear power and nuclear weapons.
Socialism gave the US the military and industrial power to win World War II.

And that has nothing to do with "people aren't equal."

Socialism doesn't promote exceptionalism.

Neil Armstrong might disagree.

Shaq can't figure out relativity like Einstein could. Einstein was short and couldn't dunk a basketball. Human's don't naturally share.

They actually do - naturally. Again I can recommend Joshua Greene's book for an examination of where those drives come from and the neurophysiology that supports it.

 

[CONSIDERABLE SHOUTING]

He's about to tell us he's a Sigma male next in a total meltdown, I can feel it.

Pretty sure you never worked a day in industry or made anything in your life and sold it in the marketplace. If you did, you failed and flunked out and why you believe all the material wealth of the US fell from the sky while you sang kumbaya by the campfire.

Ah ah! Didn't mark already say:

Up until now i would have never believed that you could or would so stoop to that "level"

You're a far better man than to be dragged down. Delete your cartoon reply. Please do find something more representative of your better judgement to post before Nicobie locks with your reply intact. Is this how you want to be remembered per your enlightened "debate" ??

enlightened debate lmao

See my avatar? AC Telsa versus DC Edison. Two alphas. Edison demonized Tesla publicly including stage craft showing people burned in an AC powered electric chair. No socialistic hand holding there.

If following the teachings of Christ to help and aid people makes me a socialist... I'd rather be a socialist. Life is too hard and brutal for too many, when we have the means and resources to make it so much better.

Also, does anyone know who "Joy Reid" is? Right-wingers bring them up sometimes as if it's some trump card in their "GOTCHA" politics, but I've never heard of them before.

 

[CONSIDERABLE SHOUTING]

Capitalists like me help socialists like you every day. That meltdown you speak of is your inner voice. Its called projection. I speak in hushed tones.

Aren't chad alphas supposed to be strong, openly speak their mind? Or are you feeling a little beta today?

Capitalists feel sorry for you and try to help. We like to compete. Its our jam.

But can you ball?

We make the solar panel you use to power the phones in your tent city.

I'm actually a forest cryptid, I'm like bigfoot with several degrees living in the Nebraska corn

Capitalists redistribute our wealth. What we do. You wouldn't survive without us. We make things and sell them. Look around. All the stuff you see? Its made by Capitalists. Capitalists can follow the teachings of Christ too, but not essential.

This sounds like a mantra. See no evil speak no evil hear no evil. But if you're so competitive, why redistribute? Doesn't that make an alpha like you weak?

Btw, I am kind of a sigma. One thing for sure, I'm not a socialist beta...lol.

Bro this shit is astrology for dudes trying to come up with explanations for why women won't have sex with them.

If you don't know who Joy Reid is, in Biden's words, you ain't black.

What the hell is this soy-ass beta response, I'd tell ya to go back to your Kiwifarms but they've finally gotten the axe lmao

 

[CONSIDERABLE SHOUTING]

I see you didn't quote me so you wouldn't address me directly. That's a very beta behavior, my dude 8) .

Sigmas have more sex than socialist betas like you. Maybe a jump ball with alphas.

In saying "jump ball" he's displaying no knowledge of basketball or current slang. 0/5 on the CEO Sigma Grindset, extremely beta behavior.

You did fumble upon an important concept, however. Why do Capitalists redistribute to help tent people like you?
A necessity. To keep the underclass aka you at bay. When you don't operate at least on a subsistent level, you resort to greater crime and violence which affects the people that run America. We don't like being threatened or having our families threatened. Btw, we don't make up the rules of the jungle. We are just good at playing the game. Capitalists are smart and pick up on the rules of the road at a young age. When you drop out like do which starts at an early age when you fail in school or aren't socially accepted and guys like me excel in stark contrast, we get on very divergent pathes of opportunity and wealth. You in stark contrast feel like a failure and why your default position is denigrating Capitalism because you can't compete or people don't want you to compete because of who you are and in your anger and rejection you can easily turn to crime. It happens in the inner cities like clockwork everyday. So we try to keep that from happening however its a difficult task because its starts with how people are raised. We understand the 'world isn't fair' and people aren't created equality. It isn't altruism as much as it is pragmatism aka playing the game better. Btw, I try to provide a lot of technical support for example on this forum. I don't have to. I like this stuff but also feels good to help others. I have enough abundance and want to share my experience I have learned by 'playing the game'. I know how to make stuff and how it goes together because its been my life's work and I have been rewarded for it. Seems reasonable to share on some level because most of the things I have learned, I have learned from others who have given to me.

Run on sentences, straw manning, constant need for validation with discussions of "wealth" or "women"... I'm sorry sir, but as a medical professional I officially diagnose you as a Beta of the Soyface-reddit tier, to the point where reading your rambling monologue has made the beard hairs on my neck grow to a new stubble.
But please, keep writing a fanfic about me, my ego enjoys it.

 

[CONSIDERABLE SHOUTING]

Agree, I am guilty of some of things you stated but mostly guilty of not respecting what you write. So forgive the halfhearted effort. If I felt you deserved more, I would have tried harder.

Dude If you wanna be an alpha you gotta learn how to give 100% 8)

Sentence syntax as an example is left for weaker minds like yourself. I am actaully rather good at it,

Just not spelling, is seems 8)

just don't choose to be. You dropped out. You know how long it would take me to unravel that misshapen ball of yarn which started when you were young?

Bout as long as it'll take for you to write another wall of text we wont read lel, so so far I'm a dropout socialist living in a solar tent somewhere? Am I at least addicted to a cool drug? 'Cause so far I sound like a cool desert nomad.

On the wealth front, reason why its topical and germane to discussion is because it makes the world go around. I know, you reject that too.

At the end of the day, the Calorie is the real unit of human progress. All the "arguments" of education and personal drive being the true equalizers of your wannabe Objectivist society don't matter when the majority of Africa is subsistence farming on 1400Kcal/day and the body lacks the energy and macronutrients to facilitate deep repair, let alone give them the personal time and energy to pursue higher education at a chance to elevate personal wealth.
Heady stuff for a supposed socialist dropout, I must be a true alpha and should realize my potential in the sigma 6 CEO grindset since the strong decide the nature of sin in your little world 8)

 

[nicobie]

PS. Have to leave it to you and Hummina and Jack to sort out.

That's a shame, just when it was getting interesting too.

Could it be possible that both of you are right about certain aspects of the Homo S. personality? Even though I mostly identify with people who create things, I see truth in what both of you have to say. If we want to survive as a society, we better not eliminate competition. We better take care of the needy too, less they rise up and do something stupid. As France found out a while back telling them eat cake doesn't work. Ever wonder what a hungry person thinks when watching a American TV show. I can pretty much guarantee that they're thinking that life has screwed them. Better not give them a way to get even...

 

[CONSIDERABLE SHOUTING]

Ok, I finally quoted you. I will try to be succinct because you struggle. I am speaking into a vacuous abyss, a bottomless chasm of incongruent thought. What's the point again other than feeding your African peeps some macronutrients? Think it will help? Didn't seem to help you...lol.
PS. Have to leave it to you and Hummina and Jack to sort out. I knew engaging you would be silly, Mr. Calorie.

Classic Beta maneuver, leave the argument and attempt verbosity in a desperate bid to seem smarter, and thus higher 8) Once you're done coping and seething, go touch grass. Or a bible.

Could it be possible that both of you are right about certain aspects of the Homo S. personality?

No he's horribly wrong :lol: The Alpha/Beta/gamma/Epsilon male bullshit is literally Astrology for dudes who can't get laid, who try to initialize and box their personalities in an easy compartments to explain why they can't talk to girls. It's hugely popular with the right-wing wierdosphere of grifters because hierarchies are their jam- they all have "Masterclass" courses on business or pickup culture that's totally not a pyramid scheme, at all! If you want Nicobie, I can post some detailed videos on it from channels like Philion or JAubrey who parse out what these dudes actually do. When it's not terribly funny, it's depressing.

Also the whole "Alpha wolf" shit is from a study done on captured, captivity wolves that the author later redacted. Sad!

 

[nicobie]

Please, no more BS videos. I doubt anybody watches them anyway.

BTW I consider someone telling me to read the bible a bigger insult than them telling me to get f*cked. In my mind the best proof that there in no God is that if there really was one he wouldn't put up with the charlatans and their greedy ways that we're currently stuck with.

BTW #2 absolutely no religious discussions are allowed here. :|