Salsa Blackborow with Grin Max45

[bananu7]

the idea of less maintenance sounds really good

Motors with integrated reduction drives require an oil change every umpteen years and that's it. The gears do make some noise though.

Wonder if there's another brushless gearless that would do the same job at a lower weight.

Yeah, there's plenty on the market right now for pretty much any wattage. The ones without reduction are mostly applicable to street use where higher v-max in relation to shaft rpm is desired. In the offroad world you really want more than you can get on final drive alone.

QS205 weighs what, 14kg? Why not pick a QS120 then, from the same manufacturer. Ideally with belt drive if you want ultimate silence and simplicity. And it's vastly easier to mount (and smaller, and lighter) than the 205...

I just want 250-500w assist and 500-1200 on steep hills

Wow, just noticed that. QS120 will happily run at 8-10kW (with 15kW peaks) all day. And it's 11kg. You could conceivably run a 4-5kg motor for that power.

 

[uhmwpolyethylene]

Motors with integrated reduction drives require an oil change every umpteen years and that's it. The gears do make some noise though.


Yeah, there's plenty on the market right now for pretty much any wattage. The ones without reduction are mostly applicable to street use where higher v-max in relation to shaft rpm is desired. In the offroad world you really want more than you can get on final drive alone.

QS205 weighs what, 14kg? Why not pick a QS120 then, from the same manufacturer. Ideally with belt drive if you want ultimate silence and simplicity. And it's vastly easier to mount (and smaller, and lighter) than the 205...



Wow, just noticed that. QS120 will happily run at 8-10kW (with 15kW peaks) all day. And it's 11kg. You could conceivably run a 4-5kg motor for that power

Oh yeah for sure , something that peaks at 1500-3000w to give me some overhead would probably be great. I edited once also saying , do you really even need a hub motor that turns mounted to an arm , or perhaps some RC motor thst just turns a cog driving the chain would make more sense unless that would add extra gearing. And yeah , the steel gears on the Lightning Rod for example , maybe some other products too, I'm sure would be more resilient than BBSHD even with those composite peek gears. I imagine the LR dealer/installer, California/North Bay ebikes could service the gears and oil every few years at least. I have to check the charts I made again about other products, I think the LEAF 1500W also had some good power/weight ratio with a narrow profile if you wanted to run on the rear wheel with some derailleur gears and didn't want to use the GRIN 27mm

 

[bananu7]

Oh yeah for sure , something that peaks at 1500-3000w to give me some overhead would probably be great.

The smallest QSMotor makes is the QS90 at 6.5kg. You can find even smaller ones on Aliexpress and the like. QS90 would probably be good up to 10kW or something like that, so it's _still_ an overkill.

The upside of having such a motor is that you can sort of solve the problem of tall gearing (with no reduction) which normally requires a large hub by simply... dumping a truckload more current on it. Give it 200 phase amps and it will happily pull any bicycle from a standstill.

 

[neptronix]

I see your axle has more contact area to stator support. Do you have the creaking noise like mine?View attachment 377945

It looks exactly like that. Mine has 500 hard miles at 2-3kw; 120A phase max. it's in perfect shape.

 

[uhmwpolyethylene]

What's up with the aluminum stator core in these , isn't that like , really bad for the magnetism? Do they laminate it with steel, and is that as effective as a full steel core? I think there are motors out there with alu casing for weight reduction and heat dissipation but with steel cores

Anyone hear word on when the 135mm max45 single speed might be releasing

 

[hillslayer@]

It looks exactly like that. Mine has 500 hard miles at 2-3kw; 120A phase max. it's in perfect shape.

Are you also doing Regen?

 

[neptronix]

Are you also doing Regen?

Of course! 1200w of regen with no mechanical brake, so really, really using it

 

[amberwolf]

What's up with the aluminum stator core in these , isn't that like , really bad for the magnetism? Do they laminate it with steel, and is that as effective as a full steel core? I think there are motors out there with alu casing for weight reduction and heat dissipation but with steel cores

The stator support itself isn't part of the magnetic circuit; it's just there to connect the motor to the axle.

 

[uhmwpolyethylene]

The stator support itself isn't part of the magnetic circuit; it's just there to connect the motor to the axle.

Ah cool. Does a steel support , or torque arm adapter? Casing , contact points? offer any durability benefits. I guess an alu outer case would dissipate heat way better. Was looking also at stuff like the RH212 , MXUS xf40 1500w or 3000w, the QS, etc etc. The Rh212 nine continents supports 10 speed which is cool. Dunno if those have steel torque arm adapters etc

 

[hillslayer@]

Of course! 1200w of regen with no mechanical brake, so really, really using it

I want to see reports of people with 5,000 miles on this hub before I believe it doesn't have a design flaw

 

[maiz]

I want to see reports of people with 5,000 miles on this hub before I believe it doesn't have a design flaw

The max45? If that's the case you don't need to wait. This thread already exposed the flaws. I'm curious how quickly GRIN addresses them.

 

[hillslayer@]

The max45? If that's the case you don't need to wait. This thread already exposed the flaws. I'm curious how quickly GRIN addresses them.

You mean like telling customers to glue their axle in place.

 

[lnanek]

Definitely feels like for a model marketed as the "max" they should have overbuilt it like QS does. Instead it feels like they tried to be as light as possible and as easy to manufacture on their lathe as possible and just barely reach the max torque and power specs legally allowed.

That said, whenever I maneuver my Bionx ebike with a DD hub motor around the garage, it is ridiculously heavy compared to my other ebike with a geared hub motor. So I do get that they were trying to solve the biggest problem DD hub motors have.

 

[MSF]

You mean like telling customers to glue their axle in place.

Yep and that was the last response to an email. They could care less about making this right. If it was me i would have done a recall on all of them, redesigned the axle and moved forward.

Max45 axle


Axle that is in the smaller motors

 

[MSF]

Lets not forget about the video where Justin says the sky's the limit on power and them dropping the bac4000 on the table. Its what sold me on the motor. Life is full of hard lessons.

 

[chuyskywalker]

I regularly run 3,000 watts through my regular every-day bike and have pushed up to 1,500w of regen on one of these for about a year of pretty regular riding. It's holding up without any of the issues reported here. The torque arm is just as solid as the day I mounted it and I don't have any slip/clank issues. I ride regen hard.

Every motor has its limits; just because the ones for this are being found doesn't make it a "bad" motor. I think we can agree it was oversold in that 5 second bac-drop, but I do not believe uses cases like this thread (and power builders like ourselves) are Grin's target. Should they be a bit more open about the max amps/torque this could handle -- that'd be great, sure. (The previous name for the motor, "Fat All Axle" was probably more inline with expectations vs the "Max45" nomenclature that gets some people hung up.)

I also look at it from another perspective: doing anything to make these extreme high power, high torque systems work would be a poor use of time and effort for Grin. Such work only satisfies a small segment of the ebike market that likes to build big, fast, and torquey -- which is very quickly being outlawed, towed, and fined just about anywhere ebikes exist now*. Redesigning this motor, retooling, retesting, etc to satisfy what is quickly becoming a visibly illegal market likely wouldn't make a ton of sense.

(* Let's not start a debate about the legitimacy of such policies in this thread, it's covered plenty well else where around the forum.)

 

[hillslayer@]

I regularly run 3,000 watts through my regular every-day bike and have pushed up to 1,500w of regen on one of these for about a year of pretty regular riding. It's holding up without any of the issues reported here. The torque arm is just as solid as the day I mounted it and I don't have any slip/clank issues. I ride regen hard.

Every motor has its limits; just because the ones for this are being found doesn't make it a "bad" motor. I think we can agree it was oversold in that 5 second bac-drop, but I do not believe uses cases like this thread (and power builders like ourselves) are Grin's target. Should they be a bit more open about the max amps/torque this could handle -- that'd be great, sure. (The previous name for the motor, "Fat All Axle" was probably more inline with expectations vs the "Max45" nomenclature that gets some people hung up.)

I also look at it from another perspective: doing anything to make these extreme high power, high torque systems work would be a poor use of time and effort for Grin. Such work only satisfies a small segment of the ebike market that likes to build big, fast, and torquey -- which is very quickly being outlawed, towed, and fined just about anywhere ebikes exist now*. Redesigning this motor, retooling, retesting, etc to satisfy what is quickly becoming a visibly illegal market likely wouldn't make a ton of sense.

(* Let's not start a debate about the legitimacy of such policies in this thread, it's covered plenty well else where around the forum.)

Thanks for clearing that up Justin.

 

[lnanek]

Lol, I've bought frames from him before. He's in SF Bay Area like me. Definitely not a Canadian in disguise.

 

[MSF]

Thanks for clearing that up Jus

I regularly run 3,000 watts through my regular every-day bike and have pushed up to 1,500w of regen on one of these for about a year of pretty regular riding. It's holding up without any of the issues reported here. The torque arm is just as solid as the day I mounted it and I don't have any slip/clank issues. I ride regen hard.

Every motor has its limits; just because the ones for this are being found doesn't make it a "bad" motor. I think we can agree it was oversold in that 5 second bac-drop, but I do not believe uses cases like this thread (and power builders like ourselves) are Grin's target. Should they be a bit more open about the max amps/torque this could handle -- that'd be great, sure. (The previous name for the motor, "Fat All Axle" was probably more inline with expectations vs the "Max45" nomenclature that gets some people hung up.)

I also look at it from another perspective: doing anything to make these extreme high power, high torque systems work would be a poor use of time and effort for Grin. Such work only satisfies a small segment of the ebike market that likes to build big, fast, and torquey -- which is very quickly being outlawed, towed, and fined just about anywhere ebikes exist now*. Redesigning this motor, retooling, retesting, etc to satisfy what is quickly becoming a visibly illegal market likely wouldn't make a ton of sense.

(* Let's not start a debate about the legitimacy of such policies in this thread, it's covered plenty well else where around the forum.)

Very possible that if i never went above 3000w it would have been fine. My guess is the first time the axle started slipping i ground axle and stator supports down enough to cause a gap and the fact that the bolt heads started to strip didn't allow me to get it tight enough when i had it apart. Now that i know i am stuck with it and on my own the next plan is a better grade bolt with washers and a locking nut on the back side to hopefully get more clamping pressure.

I'm totally fine with lower power levels as long as i can get the axle to permanently stop slipping.

 

[MSF]

Thanks for clearing that up Justin.

I know your not serious but glad you said it.

 

[tigcross]

I saw it as well. It's a single speed. It was mounted on a cruiser type frame. But I can't find any reference to it on their social media. I must have seen it on the cruiser frame builder's social media but I can't find it.

Yes, Gin will be making a Max 45 single speed to fit 135 mm dropouts. They are expecting stator cores in mid-month and then will be building some.

 

[AdR]

In grin's defence:Grin does not make emoped/emotorcycle motors or controllers. The max 45 is a 1-2Kw ebike motor to go with their 1-2Kw ebike controllers. Trying to use it as a emoped/emotorcyle motor and complaining when it breaks is indefensable.

 

[hillslayer@]

If you want this motor I believe JohnnyNerdout sells them if you have a warranty issue he will make sure it's handled.

 

[MSF]

Just got word from Justin that they are upgrading the axles on the max45 to a solid ring instead of the cutouts.

I am super happy about this.

 

[neptronix]

Hell yeah!