Sorensen DCS Series - Modification and Repair Thread

i prefer mouser over digikey most of the time; had better luck finding the right parts and in stock, and much much better luck getting help from them if i couldn't find the part on my own.



regarding the caps already in there:
maybe someone blew up the originals from heat or something by not provideing adequate cooling, and replaced them with crap ones because they were cheap?

or was it a factory soldering job (wave solder, etc)?
 
I never thought of calling Mouser for help finding a part!

I think the caps that were in there were replaced at some time because:
* They are severe off-brand for the vintage
* They are silicone glued in

A dot of glue maybe, but these were glued in for the end of time. Not a good job. Many supplies do have glued in components but in that case they glue everything. These old supplies are pretty much rattle-trap... and nothing else had glue... and the units I repaired previously had no glue or a single dot of glue

Anyhow
Parts are on order and the supply is now operational. We have an important mission to VALIDATE the modern counterfeit connectors on Amazon

* SB50
* MC4
* SB350
* Etc

So far the el'cheapo SB50 off Amazon are performing great! Night and day difference from the PP45 knock-offs that gave us so much trouble. The companies have figured out that they must use High Temp plastic. What they cheapped out on was the Electrocoating on the terminals!

I figured this out by submerging SB50 in 1.026 Salinity water energized to 24V while pulling 40A. The terminals lose their "Silver oxide" coating near instantly.

-...
Anyhow, I am here to see what progress I had made on the 33V 33A unit and that hot resistor. Going to find out why its hot, next

-methods
 
So best I can tell from the garble-schematic is that R98 is the primary path between the Rectum Fryer and the primary of the Transformer. Lots of opportunity to go wrong in there!

Lets go back and re-check Q7-Q12 for shorts, the transistors that chop the input to the transformer. That seems most likely, maybe one or more are fubar

Lets go find the values of things like CR31, that looks like a huge 5W Zener.... Cant remember if Zeners fail Open, Short, or Short-to-open.

BEST WE KNOW
* All the main output fets were shorted (now fixed)
* That means the secondary of the main transformer was basically shorted
* That means the primary of the main transformer may have been doing harder than anticipated work

So the Primary control transistors are used to hammering against a circuit in balance. We had them hammering against a hard short, UNTIL, the 7A fuse blew. Duh know... But I do know... that I have managed to Repair every single DCS Power Supply that came across my bench (up to this one)

I will solve it
Just a matter of how long it takes

-methods
 
Task
* Go out there and de-energize the supply
* Pull the Motherboard again
* Measure R98 and order/find a replacement
* Measure Q7-Q12 (Swear we already did) looking for short
* Measure CR31 (zener) to see if it is grounded

If none of that works, we will look back into the section driving R98. I think that section is fine and that the sink of R98 is not toggling.... so... on that track

* If Q7-Q12 are not shorted (I swear we already checked) THEN the PWM for those needs to be figured

I have tried hard not to drag out the scope but it may be time. The Trouble Shooting Procedure (which I dont read or use, LOL) describes about 25 checks you can do to figure it faster than we are here.

-methods
 
Q7 does not read a Body Diode and it is not short. It is acting as a high side driver. In this failure mode the resistor in question would definitely be seeing shoot thru - so I think we have Preliminary Root Cause.


-methods
 
I never thought of calling Mouser for help finding a part!

Last time I needed help (a few years back?) I used their "chat" function. Before that I had emailed them. Their chat might be a bot nowadays and less useful, but I haven't looked.

Haven't had to actually call them on the phone (hate doing that since it's always hard for me and the other person to hear and understand each other, plus I have to write everything down as they say it and have ot have them repeat everything so I can do that, so I'll have the info for later...don't need to do that if it's already in text form).


So far the el'cheapo SB50 off Amazon are performing great! Night and day difference from the PP45 knock-offs that gave us so much trouble. The companies have figured out that they must use High Temp plastic. What they cheapped out on was the Electrocoating on the terminals!

I figured this out by submerging SB50 in 1.026 Salinity water energized to 24V while pulling 40A. The terminals lose their "Silver oxide" coating near instantly.
I've got some SB50s that I've used for >10 years and put a fair number of cycles on, and havent' worn the coating off yet, so that's pretty bad.

(pp45s, even genuine ones, have a thinner coating and I *have* worn the edges of those down).

The SB50 and larger housings, even when they're clones made from softer plastics, dont' seem to have the same kind of problems that the pp45 (and even pp75) housings do. I am not certain but I think they are thicker in all the places the spring forces push against the contact and housing, minimizing deformation (and contact-contact face-connection failure). It probably also matters that the SB series is two (or more) contacts in a continuous housing (vs separate PP housings snapped together), and the portion that connects them (with the keying) probably stiffens the structure as well.
 
All 6 are N-Channel 50V mosfets with a 400mOhm RDSON.

I have seen this configuration fail before. Q7 acts to pull down on the gate of the high side mosfet. If it fails open or short, the actual top of the totem pole pegs OPEN or SHORT.

In this case the Gate of the high side is being pulled up, so it is staying on (I think) - that would be a perfect reason for the 10ohm resistor to overheat. It dumps to ground at the duty cycle via shoot-thru. Not enough to smoke the mosfets, but enough to hotdog the inline resistance.

I dont really understand the circuit... (as an Analog Engineer would).... but I see in the schematic an inductor (transformer) with switches above and below it. Each switch is a toggler, with gates tied together and an inversion for the high side. You can see it in the posted schematics above.

Looks like any mosfet will work, so I will bugger in an old 4110 and see how it runs

-methods
 
I've got some SB50s that I've used for >10 years and put a fair number of cycles on, and havent' worn the coating off yet, so that's pretty bad.

(pp45s, even genuine ones, have a thinner coating and I *have* worn the edges of those down).

The SB50 and larger housings, even when they're clones made from softer plastics, dont' seem to have the same kind of problems that the pp45 (and even pp75) housings do. I am not certain but I think they are thicker in all the places the spring forces push against the contact and housing, minimizing deformation (and contact-contact face-connection failure). It probably also matters that the SB series is two (or more) contacts in a continuous housing (vs separate PP housings snapped together), and the portion that connects them (with the keying) probably stiffens the structure as well.

I have had incredibly god luck with 3 flavors of Amazon SB50 in 8AWG. For 10AWG I fold it over double and crimp. I have probably 50 of them in service on 2KWH 16S LiFe applications. Never had one go soft on me, did have some poor compatibility between brands.
* Some pins do not set as well as others
* Some have significantly higher insertion force
* Some will share pins, some really fight you

The Lions Share of Anderson Failures I have seen in industry are:

* All Series: Pin does not wiggle, is cocked off, poor contact, overheat - the pin must wiggle to hit spec
* Cocked off 175s (I think) with too-stiff cable buggered a bunch of not to be named EV chargers
* Cocked off 350's on Forklift chargers
* Oversized Insulation and double-stuffed wires buggered a bunch of PP45s on a Robotics program
* Older fake PP45s in YGB, one color had no UV protection and a low melting temp. The others... no problem.

You can run 45A continuous on a PP45 (I have validated this) but only with all conditions absolutely perfect and a nice 10AWG heatsink. The same 45A on an SB50 wont even start to wake it up. I am FAR more comfortable running SB50 on projects that persist on customer sites (like batteries). You also see SB50 in a ton of industry applications that cant fail and last decades.

As for rubbing off the Silver
I have rubbed dozens of PP45's down to the copper, blown thru to the copper, welded them, etc. For SB50's they have held well except for submersion in Saltwater while energized. That caused instant death, green crystals, exposed copper, and failure. As an aside... I was getting electrocuted GOOD while my inductive load was coming on and off on that 24V. Dont be fooled... 24V can fly back at you very hard.

-methods
 
The below is more for readers of this thread than for you, just to give them more detail on why these problems happen. :)

I have had incredibly god luck with 3 flavors of Amazon SB50 in 8AWG.
<snip>
* Some have significantly higher insertion force
If by "insertion force" you mean connecting two SB50's together, there's two kinds of contacts for most Andersons, one of which has higher retention force; I don't recall the specifics of what's different between the two contact types. (the housing is identical in these cases).

If instead you mean inserting the contact into the housing, that probably means the spring is stronger / stiffer (since it shouldn't be a housing size issue as the contacts should be a "fit" in them so they can float, as you already know ;) ). If the spring is too strong it might cause issues with floating during connection but it seems more likely to force the contacts together better and create a better connection, as long as their flat contact surfaces still fully mate. :)


<snip>
* Cocked off 175s (I think) with too-stiff cable buggered a bunch of not to be named EV chargers
<snip>
* Oversized Insulation and double-stuffed wires buggered a bunch of PP45s on a Robotics program
Both of those are common failure modes because they prevent the contacts from floating in the housing and then properly mating their contact surfaces once connected.

Most people don't even attempt to understand the connectors they are using (even when designing a product, much less just when assembling them for other people/companies or even just for themselves), so they have no idea that preventing contact movement in a connector designed like the Andersons are will cause them to have poor contact and high resistance and often eventual failure of the system. :(



You can run 45A continuous on a PP45 (I have validated this) but only with all conditions absolutely perfect and a nice 10AWG heatsink. The same 45A on an SB50 wont even start to wake it up. I am FAR more comfortable running SB50 on projects that persist on customer sites (like batteries). You also see SB50 in a ton of industry applications that cant fail and last decades.
Yes, it is why I use the SB50 in just about every connection I have that uses any significant current**** including the connector I use on the big Sorenson DCS55-55 (?) for testing various things, and the Meanwells I use for charging stuff, and for running the B&D wall-plug type mower off battery packs instead.


****except for my present motor/controller phase and battery-bus connectors on the SB Cruiser, because they're Phaserunners from ebikes.ca and one already came with an L1019 for phases that is "good enough" for what I put it thru and PP45s that I've already proven "good enough" with previous controllers on the trike. But the main battery connector at the battery, and the one under the trike that splits off from the battery bus to each controller, is still SB50. :) The lighting battery is only PP45 still.

And except for the connector on the Satiator, which is still the original XLR, because that was just easier for a waterproof panelmount on the trike's front since it isn't a built in charger unlike the traction pack that has a built-onto-the-trike meanwell.
 
I HAVE REPAIRED THE DCS 33-33 SUPPLY

Proof of Work

* Its Power Mosfets were shorted out and they are the nasty buggers to change
* Its Ribbon Cable was work-hardened-broken and that is 20 pins soldered into the board
* Its R98 was smoked reading 16ohms on 10ohms expected
* Its Q7 was blown open which is a very important high side driver
* Its Biscut fan was packed with salt and rust
* Its Switches were set wrong and it had an Analog Card installed
* It had the dreaded short-blow-out under the 120/240 swap plug (from pushing down)
* It of course had no Local D-Sub, no power cable, was missing screws....
* Er... did we fix anything else?

We made a 1W 10ohm resistor out of a "Resistor Kit" of 1/8th or 1/10th watt 100 ohm resistors, 10 in parallel

We replaced the ancient 50V 5A 400mOhm N-Channel with a 150V 4115 from the ol' ebike days

We had to totally destroy the ribbon cable and rework it from Scratch... it was HORRIBLE

We had to bugger-patch the short circuit under the board to case with some CrapTon

We had to buy bogus Mosfets off Ebay, got ripped off, then got hooked up... (by an honest seller)

I have now repaired
* DCS 600-1.8
* DCS 60-18 (Several)
* DCS 60-18E
* DCS 33-33
* DCS 8-125


W I N N I N G

Proof of work below.... including my horrible bodge of the Ribbon cable and subsequent perfect rework. The Mosfet replacement was earlier in the year and you can find it detailed above. I had to let this thing sit for MONTHS out in the dusty boat port while I worked on other things. This was the hardest to date. I had to learn A LOT to figure this one... sigh...

And I still never pulled out the Scope*

-methods
 
If by "insertion force" you mean connecting two SB50's together, there's two kinds of contacts for most Andersons, one of which has higher retention force; I don't recall the specifics of what's different between the two contact types. (the housing is identical in these cases).

Agreed!
I actually did not learn that until just a few months back, reading data sheets.


If instead you mean inserting the contact into the housing, that probably means the spring is stronger / stiffer (since it shouldn't be a housing size issue as the contacts should be a "fit" in them so they can float, as you already know ;) ). If the spring is too strong it might cause issues with floating during connection but it seems more likely to force the contacts together better and create a better connection, as long as their flat contact surfaces still fully mate. :)

I am complaining about both in an obtuse way
* Inserting the contacts into the housing from the rear can be very hard if you mix-match the contacts between vendors
* Once inserted, I have had some ... er... less than amazing connector to connector mates. They make contact, but not smooth

Thank you for clarifying for all involved. I have seen A LOT OF FALSE BLAME aimed at Anderson due to people performing poor work. Stiff-ass cables causing cocked-off connections then subsequent metldown.... SIGH. Major field rework, blamed on the manufacturer when in fact it was the Fab House and Engineering.

Its an important Subject...
Because Anderson are Excellent Connectors that I use all the time

Both of those are common failure modes because they prevent the contacts from floating in the housing and then properly mating their contact surfaces once connected.

Agreed 100%
The design depends on each half of the connector floating on spring tension. You can pass current with them jammed, but they are not going to hit all the original specifications.

Reading the original paperwork also taught me that each time you plug them in... you are rubbing... rubbing... rubbing away a layer of oxidation! They are equipped with a thick sacrificial (silver oxide?) coating that is very recognizable in original Anderson equipment. It works really good for a really long time.

MOST CONNECTORS... are rated for like 50 cycles. I have cycled Anderson a thousand times (ok... 420?) and never seen them fail like rolled sockets etc (think Molex Microfit)

Most people don't even attempt to understand the connectors they are using (even when designing a product, much less just when assembling them for other people/companies or even just for themselves), so they have no idea that preventing contact movement in a connector designed like the Andersons are will cause them to have poor contact and high resistance and often eventual failure of the system. :(




Yes, it is why I use the SB50 in just about every connection I have that uses any significant current**** including the connector I use on the big Sorenson DCS55-55 (?) for testing various things, and the Meanwells I use for charging stuff, and for running the B&D wall-plug type mower off battery packs instead.

Oh... You have a DCS55-55?
I want one...

The other day I was Reading Anderson data sheets and I swear they had a contact for the SB50 that was rated for like 120A**

****except for my present motor/controller phase and battery-bus connectors on the SB Cruiser, because they're Phaserunners from ebikes.ca and one already came with an L1019 for phases that is "good enough" for what I put it thru and PP45s that I've already proven "good enough" with previous controllers on the trike. But the main battery connector at the battery, and the one under the trike that splits off from the battery bus to each controller, is still SB50. :) The lighting battery is only PP45 still.

And except for the connector on the Satiator, which is still the original XLR, because that was just easier for a waterproof panelmount on the trike's front since it isn't a built in charger unlike the traction pack that has a built-onto-the-trike meanwell.

Waterproofing Panel Mount is a very rewarding exercise.

Most recently I discovered that you can get MC4 with an 8AWG contact... so now I use glands to sillywire 8AWG to MC4, and those I have tested submerged in Saltwater on BoogieThruster.

Live the Dream brother

-methods
 
Right about HERE I was ready to throw the supply into the bushes. I already had SO MANY VARIABLES and I was trying to isolate 2 at once... then this third hit. OMFG... that sucked a$$.

It is the stiffest cable you have ever felt and some Government Stooge value-engineered the connector off the PCB side. Its solder-in, and you have to bend it during motherboard removal... and after about 5 bends the tiny 5 strand stiffies start sheering

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

* That was after bodging in a resistor over a smoked resistor
* That was after bodging in an incorrect N-Channel on a circuit I did not REALLY understand (sigh)
* Then... THE DREADED BROKEN RIBBON CABLE

MU HU HA HA HA HA

-methods

1732941771205.png
 
Battery Hookup has 200A Solar BMS's on sale for $40 right now.
16S LiFePO4
Something like 100A charge, 200A continuous discharge, insane burst

I bought 4
20% off sale today... I bought T-Shirts as well for like $6

-methods

1732942135335.png
 
DCS 33-33 smoked during rail to rail full power testing. $20 says it's the fake fets I got off eBay!


* Should have blown that 10 amp fast acting fuse
* If we remove the motherboard again we can measure the MOSFETs for short

I have to go install a range hood, so maybe I'll get back around to it tonight. I do have two samples from a different source as well as a single sample from a third source.

They're all counterfeit garbage.... But let's see. The real ones go for $27 a piece and there are four !?!!?! ACK 😫

-methods
 
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