Speedict neptune lite
- Thread starter cwah
- Start date
zro-1
1 kW
Subscribed. I'd love to get some current impressions on the features of this BMS.
zro-1
1 kW
Will the speed sensor feature work with a speed sensor built into a hub motor if it's using a single magnet and coming from a separate wire?
Hello Speedict,
Comparing the schema from the manual to the picture above:
I have a question: In the schema Charging and Motor-Controller Wires are connected where they enter the Neptune.
On the photo this is not the case.
I assume they are connected on the inside, and there is no logical difference between charging and dis-charging wires.
The reason I ask is Regenerative breaking: This would provide charging-energy coming FROM the Controller-Wires, and not via the Charging wires.
I am 90% sure you will tell me that they ARE connected and regen-breaking is fine,
but I wanted to make sure that was really the case!
A few more questions:
* I assume you can run the Neptune without connnecting it to Bluetooth?
* Does the unit wake up automatically somehow when the Bike is used? Or will there be no power on the Load-Wires until the button on the device is pressed?
* What is the roadmap for the Neptunes? ( = Any new models coming out soon?)
Thanks, Ulli
Comparing the schema from the manual to the picture above:
I have a question: In the schema Charging and Motor-Controller Wires are connected where they enter the Neptune.
On the photo this is not the case.
I assume they are connected on the inside, and there is no logical difference between charging and dis-charging wires.
The reason I ask is Regenerative breaking: This would provide charging-energy coming FROM the Controller-Wires, and not via the Charging wires.
I am 90% sure you will tell me that they ARE connected and regen-breaking is fine,
but I wanted to make sure that was really the case!
A few more questions:
* I assume you can run the Neptune without connnecting it to Bluetooth?
* Does the unit wake up automatically somehow when the Bike is used? Or will there be no power on the Load-Wires until the button on the device is pressed?
* What is the roadmap for the Neptunes? ( = Any new models coming out soon?)
Thanks, Ulli
hi Ulli,
please focus on neptune15-real.jpg, wire pairs of CONTROLLER(discharge) and CHARGER(charge) are connected differently inside Neptune, the DISCHAGE path is bypass CHARGE MOSFET (see pic "current flow diagram (split)").
they are not connected together inside, so the answer is "yes" and "no", you can still get regenerative current which is forward diode of DISCHARGE control MOSFET, that's mean Neptune couldn't control over-cell voltage cut-off, in the event of cell-over-voltage Neptune just simply turn OFF CHARGE MOSFET but discharge current still flow in reverse direction, sorry about that
If you want to control regenerative current, we can solder wire to CHARGE path (current flow diagram (non split).jpg ) and provide different firmware for upgrade as we did for one of our customer who are going to participle long trip from Lyon to Canton(china) powered by solar panel ...
yes
turn on or off via POWER SWITCH, no power on Load-wires while switch off, that's good for inrush current protection.
Neptune 20 cell version
Neptune 15 + Throttle control (like Mercury)
should you have any more queries, please don't hesitate to post question here !
Danny
please focus on neptune15-real.jpg, wire pairs of CONTROLLER(discharge) and CHARGER(charge) are connected differently inside Neptune, the DISCHAGE path is bypass CHARGE MOSFET (see pic "current flow diagram (split)").
they are not connected together inside, so the answer is "yes" and "no", you can still get regenerative current which is forward diode of DISCHARGE control MOSFET, that's mean Neptune couldn't control over-cell voltage cut-off, in the event of cell-over-voltage Neptune just simply turn OFF CHARGE MOSFET but discharge current still flow in reverse direction, sorry about that
If you want to control regenerative current, we can solder wire to CHARGE path (current flow diagram (non split).jpg ) and provide different firmware for upgrade as we did for one of our customer who are going to participle long trip from Lyon to Canton(china) powered by solar panel ...
yes
turn on or off via POWER SWITCH, no power on Load-wires while switch off, that's good for inrush current protection.
Neptune 20 cell version
Neptune 15 + Throttle control (like Mercury)
should you have any more queries, please don't hesitate to post question here !
Danny
Attachments
Is the Neptune 15 available to buy still? Can't see buy button on website.
Also what are peoples opinions on this BMS now it's been out for a little while?
I have had multiple failures of cheap BMS where they have allowed individual cells to drop way lower than the rest, without turning off the power.
Cheers.
Also what are peoples opinions on this BMS now it's been out for a little while?
I have had multiple failures of cheap BMS where they have allowed individual cells to drop way lower than the rest, without turning off the power.
Cheers.
the check out button still there, on website menu -> SHOP -> select Neptune 15 -> ADD TO CART -> and CHECK OUT
so far so good, we are still improving Neptune 15, 6 firmware and 5 android upgrades since last year, a new request from customer 2 days ago was put realtime temperature reading on Dashboard page.
On Neptune 15, you can set Cell under voltage cut-off, e.g. 2.5v for Li-Ion
Ok great. I'm running peaks of 50A, so that's good. I look forward to receiving and trying this out. I will be running it on a 15S4P HG2 pack. Currently out of balance due to a previous BMS letting me down. I intend to give this battery quite a thrashing, so will post my findings here.
handbaked said:
in the mean time please download Neptune 15 user guide and focus on page 25, 26 and 27 when received your Neptune 15 next week ...
1. solder the 15s balance connector to your battery pack.
2. make sure polarity (red wire solder to your 15s terminal, since your pack is 15s) and adjacent cell do not excess 5v.
3. no rush to connect / test charge discharge function by connect battery pack's discharge wire to Neptune 15.
4. just connect balance connector to Neptune 15, switch on, pair and connect with Android device.
5. get familiar with Android client interface, you can start with BALANCE only feature to reduce your cell delta to mV level.
Danny
Ivanovitch_k
10 W
I just got a Neptune 15, here is what I intend to do with it + mini review of the BMS itself:
I'm currently designing a custom logging and control board with all the connectivity you can get ( 3G / 4G / Wifi / BT / GPS ) embedded in the bike. The end goal is to access it with a website, possibly extended to iOS and watchOS apps in the long run.
I searched a good BMS to get infos on the battery health and runtime stats. It also needed to be more reliable than the generic Chinese BMS.
The Neptune fitted the bill but with one small problem, it doesn't exposes it's data any other way than through BLE and it's Android app.
Fortunately, it uses the popular HM-10 BLE module to which it sends and receive data through AT commands over an UART link.
I will need to reverse engineer all the AT commands and replicate them with my board. Not hard but a bit long
I plan on installing the Neptune in a Reention downtube-integrated battery , mounted on a Frey AM1000 bike where my custom board will sit. This battery uses a discharge connector with 4 auxiliary data pins so I will forward the UART and BMS on/off lines through them.
An obvious benefit is that the main board will be able to automatically switch on the BMS only after the battery connector is firmly seated, hence no more arcing !
A nice upgrade I'll probably look-into will be to tie the BMS on-switch with the battery key lock. A proper ingition switch
!
Let's go on with the BMS hardware review:
The clear shrink-wrap was removed. I noticed those 4 hex screws were barely tightened.
@Speedict: a bit of thread-locker would be welcomed.
CONTROL PCBA
nice board, STM32L brainbox, the aforementioned HM10 module running a Ti CC2541, a very good TI BQ7694 monitor & balance chip, connectors for the on/off switch, a speed sensor and a pack temp sensor.
There is also a Spansion / Cypress SPI Flash chip (128 Mbit ? cannot find datasheet) the neptune uses for logging.
POWER PCBA
only brand-name parts, they sure didn't skimped on the BoM:
Charge mosfets are International Rectifiers IRFS3607, discharge ones are Infineon OptiMos 054n08n, rectifiers are On-Semi and Diodes INC. Charge traces are beefy and tin-plated. Discharge ones have brass (?) bus bars.
Overall, a very nice BMS.
Still, there are a few points I have mixed feelings about:
What @Speedict could look into for future Neptune modules is to make cutouts in the thermal backplane to allow through hole soldering. It would probably good to do it also on the charge / controller side.
Similar to this (minus the crappy soldering job ):
And an even better approach would be to have the leads crimped with eyelets ends and have them screwed in.
I'm currently designing a custom logging and control board with all the connectivity you can get ( 3G / 4G / Wifi / BT / GPS ) embedded in the bike. The end goal is to access it with a website, possibly extended to iOS and watchOS apps in the long run.
I searched a good BMS to get infos on the battery health and runtime stats. It also needed to be more reliable than the generic Chinese BMS.
The Neptune fitted the bill but with one small problem, it doesn't exposes it's data any other way than through BLE and it's Android app.
Fortunately, it uses the popular HM-10 BLE module to which it sends and receive data through AT commands over an UART link.
I will need to reverse engineer all the AT commands and replicate them with my board. Not hard but a bit long
I plan on installing the Neptune in a Reention downtube-integrated battery , mounted on a Frey AM1000 bike where my custom board will sit. This battery uses a discharge connector with 4 auxiliary data pins so I will forward the UART and BMS on/off lines through them.
An obvious benefit is that the main board will be able to automatically switch on the BMS only after the battery connector is firmly seated, hence no more arcing !
A nice upgrade I'll probably look-into will be to tie the BMS on-switch with the battery key lock. A proper ingition switch
!Let's go on with the BMS hardware review:
The clear shrink-wrap was removed. I noticed those 4 hex screws were barely tightened.
@Speedict: a bit of thread-locker would be welcomed.
CONTROL PCBA
nice board, STM32L brainbox, the aforementioned HM10 module running a Ti CC2541, a very good TI BQ7694 monitor & balance chip, connectors for the on/off switch, a speed sensor and a pack temp sensor.
There is also a Spansion / Cypress SPI Flash chip (128 Mbit ? cannot find datasheet) the neptune uses for logging.
POWER PCBA
only brand-name parts, they sure didn't skimped on the BoM:
Charge mosfets are International Rectifiers IRFS3607, discharge ones are Infineon OptiMos 054n08n, rectifiers are On-Semi and Diodes INC. Charge traces are beefy and tin-plated. Discharge ones have brass (?) bus bars.
Overall, a very nice BMS.
Still, there are a few points I have mixed feelings about:
- No conformal coating. Easy to add DIY, but I reasonably expected one on a high-end part like this,
- The power wiring is surface soldered. No pulling and lead-securing away from vibrations mandatory !
Selastic or a clamp would have helped.
- The distance between the battery leads is VERY SMALL !!! Why not have them at the opposite end of the board like on many other bms ? With the lack of coating, less than a millimeter is protecting the pack from an dead short
. I will add a fuse on the pack lead (+ polyfuses on the balancing leads).
What @Speedict could look into for future Neptune modules is to make cutouts in the thermal backplane to allow through hole soldering. It would probably good to do it also on the charge / controller side.
Similar to this (minus the crappy soldering job
):
And an even better approach would be to have the leads crimped with eyelets ends and have them screwed in.
Bg-electric-cycle
10 W
Excellent thread and thank you to the above poster for that insider data.
I fast charge 8 amp 13p 10s battery and that latest charger I requested a voltage cut-off of 40.5 volts. The charger was meant for use only when was out and about visiting various people and far flung villages.
Short from the long cell voltages.
Readings from BMS balance lead. Actual cell voltages
cell 1. 3.65 3.65
2. 6.13 2.48
3. 10.20 4.07
4. 14.27 4.07
5. 18.30 4.03
6. 22.30 4.00
7. 26.30 4.00
8. 30.00 3.70
9. 34.00 4.00
10. 38.10 4.10
Without any want to dismantle this pack and on the basis all the cells are good.
Question.
Will the Neptune BMS, resolve the unbalanced cells?
Noted 2.48volts below 2.5. I will in a few hours check the pack again and charge for a short while via a charger: 2 amp 36 volt 42 volt cut-off.
I fast charge 8 amp 13p 10s battery and that latest charger I requested a voltage cut-off of 40.5 volts. The charger was meant for use only when was out and about visiting various people and far flung villages.
Short from the long cell voltages.
Readings from BMS balance lead. Actual cell voltages
cell 1. 3.65 3.65
2. 6.13 2.48
3. 10.20 4.07
4. 14.27 4.07
5. 18.30 4.03
6. 22.30 4.00
7. 26.30 4.00
8. 30.00 3.70
9. 34.00 4.00
10. 38.10 4.10
Without any want to dismantle this pack and on the basis all the cells are good.
Question.
Will the Neptune BMS, resolve the unbalanced cells?
Noted 2.48volts below 2.5. I will in a few hours check the pack again and charge for a short while via a charger: 2 amp 36 volt 42 volt cut-off.
Bg-electric-cycle said:
you can use Neptune 15 as standalone balancer or discharge all cells except cell #2 to reduce cell delta of pack and then charge it up and standalone balance again, repeat these steps until cell delta voltage to acceptance level.
My application is for an 13S Lithium Ion with 10A charge and 200A peak discharge.
Instead of using the "controller output" on the Neptune 15 directly to the controller, can use this output to control an relay instead?
I understand i will not be getting current readings this way but that is less important.
I see the chage port can handle 20A so that should be ok.
Instead of using the "controller output" on the Neptune 15 directly to the controller, can use this output to control an relay instead?
I understand i will not be getting current readings this way but that is less important.
I see the chage port can handle 20A so that should be ok.
aaron_mason
100 mW
- Joined
- Sep 13, 2018
- Messages
- 35
Hi Speedict - Just curious if you guys have a 20s, higher amperage version of the Neptune in the works. There was mention on your FB page of a 20s version in the works. Thanks!
aaron_mason said:
sorry I didn't receive any notification from this thread !
yes we did 20s working long time ago but now we are focusing on other project, since recently we have received more 20s enquiries, we should consider build some units and start recruit beta tester
7tronics
100 mW
- Joined
- May 14, 2010
- Messages
- 42
Thank you for the review of the Neptune 15! We would like to incorporate it into designs where the individual cell leads may not be available.
Can this Neptune 15 be setup without connecting anything to the battery pack but the + and - discharge terminal leads?
How can a separate charge and discharge connections from a battery packs own BMS be connected?
Best, Mark
Can this Neptune 15 be setup without connecting anything to the battery pack but the + and - discharge terminal leads?
How can a separate charge and discharge connections from a battery packs own BMS be connected?
Best, Mark
Ivanovitch_k said: