Im not sure you read/understood properly.....I have both a 20" wheel bmx ebike and a bigger 26" wheel ebike. both with the same size/power hub motor and 1500w controller.
ive only just relaced the 20" after it being OOA for the past yearish (dented rim lip from flatish tyre+rough ground, not bad spoke holes).
the old 20" rim itself is still perfectly round.
I only posted the pic of the 20incher to show i can lace a wheel semi compentently to avoid patronishing tones.
I half missed the bad angle, because every single 26" 1000w wheel is laced exactly the same, and as somewhat proven by the grin spoke calculator, its impossible to get a good spoke angle and have spokes cross laced.
thanks for the help papasteve, as you can tell, im torn between radial n cross.....as everyone/internet says radial is "terrible" and to avoid it.
I half think most people who had a bad experience with radial.....didn't check spoke tightness after each ride for the first few weeks of riding on new spokes.
Changing/drilling/filing the spoke hole angle on a "naked" rim will still end up with the same problem somewhat.... the spoke will go through nicer but the nipple flange will still not sit evenly on the rim hole edge.....again causing uneven stress on one side of the rim holes.
A larger hole in a double skin rim with double skinned eyelets.....may or may not be stronger (depends what type of strength you mean).....as each eyelet joins the outer skin to the inner for extra overall reinforcement of the rim.
seeing as the strength failure in my current (cheap poo chinese) rim was the eyelet holes and not a malformed "doritoed rim"
i could extrapolate that a resonable quality rim from a reputable brand should be made of better material and be able to cope with larger spoke holes drilled for steel eyelets.
i really could do with a "better design rim" where each spoke hole has been pressed into the right shape/angle (like a motorbike wheel) see pic
View attachment 331449
dont suppose they do this for bicycle rims?
seems like short of finding the magical "above pictured rim" anything i do choose will end up being a compromise in one area or another
spoke threading question (cracks in rim)
- Thread starter jimmyhackers
- Start date
Im not sure you read/understood properly.....I have both a 20" wheel bmx ebike and a bigger 26" wheel ebike. both with the same size/power hub motor and 1500w controller.
ive only just relaced the 20" after it being OOA for the past yearish (dented rim lip from flatish tyre+rough ground, not bad spoke holes).
the old 20" rim itself is still perfectly round.
I only posted the pic of the 20incher to show i can lace a wheel semi compentently to avoid patronishing tones.
I half missed the bad angle, because every single 26" 1000w wheel is laced exactly the same, and as somewhat proven by the grin spoke calculator, its impossible to get a good spoke angle and have spokes cross laced.
thanks for the help papasteve, as you can tell, im torn between radial n cross.....as everyone/internet says radial is "terrible" and to avoid it.
I half think most people who had a bad experience with radial.....didn't check spoke tightness after each ride for the first few weeks of riding on new spokes.
Changing/drilling/filing the spoke hole angle on a "naked" rim will still end up with the same problem somewhat.... the spoke will go through nicer but the nipple flange will still not sit evenly on the rim hole edge.....again causing uneven stress on one side of the rim holes.
A larger hole in a double skin rim with double skinned eyelets.....may or may not be stronger (depends what type of strength you mean).....as each eyelet joins the outer skin to the inner for extra overall reinforcement of the rim.
seeing as the strength failure in my current (cheap poo chinese) rim was the eyelet holes and not a malformed "doritoed rim"
i could extrapolate that a resonable quality rim from a reputable brand should be made of better material and be able to cope with larger spoke holes drilled for steel eyelets.
i really could do with a "better design rim" where each spoke hole has been pressed into the right shape/angle (like a motorbike wheel) see pic
View attachment 331449
dont suppose they do this for bicycle rims?
seems like short of finding the magical "above pictured rim" anything i do choose will end up being a compromise in one area or another
jimmyhackers
10 kW
if were going by "real english" and not the bastardised american version its actually patronising.
not sure what your problem is.....i'd rather not find out.
not sure what your problem is.....i'd rather not find out.
E-HP
1 GW
I guess Chalo would disagree with you.
Extreme spoke angles with big hub motor wheelbuilds
I just built a 27.5" wheel with a voilamart motor and the angle between the spoke nipples and the spokes looks extremely dodgy and I'm concerned that it spokes will fail at that bend point. Is there any way to improve this with this build or my next one? Would nipple washers improve it? Thank...
endless-sphere.com
jimmyhackers
10 kW
i wish id read that post from chalo from the begining too
"Radial lacing a hub motor is a good choice when the hub is large and the rim is small. In that case, there's no good way to cross-lace. Also, wind-up between hub and rim is negligible when the hub radius is large and spokes are short"
it would seem as long as my hubs motos lip/rim can handle the forces... it'll be ok. i will also take chalos advice on the 14g spokes though.....they're cheaper than 12g
"Radial lacing a hub motor is a good choice when the hub is large and the rim is small. In that case, there's no good way to cross-lace. Also, wind-up between hub and rim is negligible when the hub radius is large and spokes are short"
it would seem as long as my hubs motos lip/rim can handle the forces... it'll be ok. i will also take chalos advice on the 14g spokes though.....they're cheaper than 12g
E-HP
1 GW
It convinced me to try it, if I end up breaking more spokes and decide to relace. If I do, I think I landed on going ahead with drilling my flange to do the paired hole radial lacing. I still barely know what I'm doing, but at least the Grin spoke calculator has that option, so at least I'd have the spoke length covered.i wish id read that post from chalo from the begining too
"Radial lacing a hub motor is a good choice when the hub is large and the rim is small. In that case, there's no good way to cross-lace. Also, wind-up between hub and rim is negligible when the hub radius is large and spokes are short"
it would seem as long as my hubs motos lip/rim can handle the forces... it'll be ok. i will also take chalos advice on the 14g spokes though.....they're cheaper than 12g
jimmyhackers
10 kW
Just found this chap on youtube, he's done stress simulations of radial and 3 cross spoke patterns, in both a wheel torque situation and a pothole situation. (4 short vids in total)
It's interesting to see how the two situations have thier pros and cons.
It's seems raidial puts the pothole stress into the hub and the 3cross into the top of the rim,
with the most spoke stress (red orange) appearing on the top spokes in 3 cross pattern.
Also it seems on the torque simulation that there is a lot of changing and uneven spoke forces with the 3 cross pattern. where as radial is all even.
Granted this is a simple simulation, and real world is somewhat different.
As said by papasteve, going cross pattern (with angle) will put more hub meat infront of the direction the spoke will pull, making it stronger hubwise. I dont think these simulations will show little nuances like that so well, but still quite interesting.
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PaPaSteve
100 W
A very in-depth, expert analysis of an e-bike wheel rebuild by Bill Mould.
billmouldwheels.com
Technical Videos – Bill Mould Wheels
billmouldwheels.com
jimmyhackers
10 kW
that explained a lot. thank you
from the spoke angle segment, i can now fully understand why my wheels poor spoke angle are creating a "2 points of contact vs 1" situation at the rim.
and why the 1 side is losing and cracking more : )
your rigth, a quick file/dremmel probably would of most likely prevented this problem.
seeing as this rims most definately on its way out, can anyone recommend some good strong 26" rims please?
i kinda want it wideish... its currently a 33mm outer width.... but i could go up to 50mm or 60mm. tyre is a 26x2.2.
would going to a wider rim make my tyre less rolly when leaning over? increase sidewall stability?
also....would a wider alternating spoke hole offset from the centre of the rim (made possible by a wider rim) increase or decrease wheel strength in any noticable/significant way?
from the spoke angle segment, i can now fully understand why my wheels poor spoke angle are creating a "2 points of contact vs 1" situation at the rim.
and why the 1 side is losing and cracking more : )
your rigth, a quick file/dremmel probably would of most likely prevented this problem.
seeing as this rims most definately on its way out, can anyone recommend some good strong 26" rims please?
i kinda want it wideish... its currently a 33mm outer width.... but i could go up to 50mm or 60mm. tyre is a 26x2.2.
would going to a wider rim make my tyre less rolly when leaning over? increase sidewall stability?
also....would a wider alternating spoke hole offset from the centre of the rim (made possible by a wider rim) increase or decrease wheel strength in any noticable/significant way?
PaPaSteve
100 W
JB Importers is a good info source.
Although ... since moving to Oregon I haven't found a bike shop who will order the products in a reasonable time frame.
Although ... since moving to Oregon I haven't found a bike shop who will order the products in a reasonable time frame.
jimmyhackers
10 kW
ive found the same with my local bike shops in the UK..... apparently 3-4 weeks is a reasonable time to wait for a freewheel,
and people wonder why china is succeeding atm :s
also, bollocks to halfords (halfrauds).....knobber worker refused to redo a brake cable on my bike as it wasnt "road legal"
pointed out i can use my bike very legally on private property......still refused the provide the service.
then refused to sell me the brake line/cable to redo it myself at home.
i asked to speak to a manager....was left waiting at the front desk for 30 minutes.....then the store closed and the security guard triedto usher me out under threat of calling the police.
again F&*K HALFORDS!
and people wonder why china is succeeding atm :s
also, bollocks to halfords (halfrauds).....knobber worker refused to redo a brake cable on my bike as it wasnt "road legal"
pointed out i can use my bike very legally on private property......still refused the provide the service.
then refused to sell me the brake line/cable to redo it myself at home.
i asked to speak to a manager....was left waiting at the front desk for 30 minutes.....then the store closed and the security guard triedto usher me out under threat of calling the police.
again F&*K HALFORDS!
Chalo
100 TW
Sounds like you have trouble hearing what other people are telling you. They're not obligated to do anything for you that they don't want to. Take the hint and go away.
jimmyhackers
10 kW
dont be a tool chalo.
refusing to service a bike he wasnt comfortable with is fair enough, (i could accept that)
going that extra step and refusing to sell me a simple brake cable kit, so i could do it myself....was the knobber move (it was spiteful, vindictive and childish).
the final nail in the coffin for the whole store/franchise was the manager refusing to be a manager, just hid like a fliddy coward.
refusing to service a bike he wasnt comfortable with is fair enough, (i could accept that)
going that extra step and refusing to sell me a simple brake cable kit, so i could do it myself....was the knobber move (it was spiteful, vindictive and childish).
the final nail in the coffin for the whole store/franchise was the manager refusing to be a manager, just hid like a fliddy coward.
E-HP
1 GW
Agreed, but probably a byproduct of desperation, too. The pandemic really accelerated the move from pedal bikes to ebikes, and I don't think most bicycle shops were prepared for that happening so quickly. Even the super pedal bike only shops around here have finally opened up to ebikes. The ones that keep fighting that change are hurting more and more, but still digging in. I think that for any bike shop to survive now, they need to hire at least one competent mechanic with ebike experience. That would help the shop, and customers needed service, while slowly educating the rest of the shop, and maybe keep it afloat.
Chalo
100 TW
I do it when someone comes in with a drippy, stinky gas motor bike with a loose floppy coaster brake and no front brake. I just want nothing at all to do with it, not even parts sales. I tell the cigarette-reeking alcoholic owner I don't want to be involved and I go on about my business.
E-HP
1 GW
Hey now,...