Sur Ron Ultra Bee

[DanGT86]

Anybody ride the new Sur Ron Ultra Bee yet? I have not seen any mention of it on ES yet. Looks like a really nice trail machine. IDK when they will get to the US or what the price will be but I feel like these are going to sell like crazy! The original light bee is a bit small for my tastes and the Storm Bee is really heavy. This looks like the perfect bike to fill the gap between bicycle suspension and a full on MX bike. Can't wait to see one in person.

https://surron.ca/pages/ultra-bee




85kg
12.5 kw
motorcycle suspension 240mm travel
72v 55Ah battery
Regen
Traction control
19" wheels

 

[DanGT86]

Based on this thread getting zero responses I have to assume there is another thread about this bike. Is it possible there is no enthusiasm for this Ultra Bee?

Looks like its around $6500usd! Seems pretty reasonable to me.

 

[DingusMcGee]

DanGT86,

Thanks for posting the specs of the Super Bee. They do give me a useful reference as to whether to buy one or put my skills to use on a used MC conversion.

A comparable [or likely better ] MC frame would be that of the Kawasaki kx100. You can pick up a running used one for under $2000 and sell the gas motor for $400. After you remove all the gas engine crap and add a QS4000 motor etc you will have a faster, lighter bike with better suspension — even cheaper and a title?

It seems endless sphere is suited to talks among builders/conversions rather than an interest in who is selling a mass produced edirtbike that has few advantages over what one could build.

But whether a commercial edirtbike or an MC conversion you likely will end up with over twice the roll axis second moment of inertia as you would get with a good bike to edirtbike conversion — or less nimbleness.

 

[efMX Trials Electric Freeride]

"The 2023 Ultra Bee will be sold as an off-road model in Canada.."

when usa gets the homologated version I'll be more interested..

I'm saving up for my next dirt ebike and gowow ori, arctic leopard, ultra bee and Apollo top my current list

 

[SlowCo]

[youtube]vFs947OEhac[/youtube]

 

[DanGT86]

DanGT86,

Thanks for posting the specs of the Super Bee. They do give me a useful reference as to whether to buy one or put my skills to use on a used MC conversion.

A comparable [or likely better ] MC frame would be that of the Kawasaki kx100. You can pick up a running used one for under $2000 and sell the gas motor for $400. After you remove all the gas engine crap and add a QS4000 motor etc you will have a faster, lighter bike with better suspension — even cheaper and a title?

It seems endless sphere is suited to talks among builders/conversions rather than an interest in who is selling a mass produced edirtbike that has few advantages over what one could build.

But whether a commercial edirtbike or an MC conversion you likely will end up with over twice the roll axis second moment of inertia as you would get with a good bike to edirtbike conversion — or less nimbleness.

I hear what you are saying about the lower cost of a gas conversion. At the same time I could have a lot of fun riding the ultra bee while shopping for "real" forks and a shock from a well respected dirt bike manufacturer.

Would be nice to have tidy waterproof connectors without the hassles and trial and error that come along with diy conversions.

When I'm not riding electric I ride a honda crf 230 trail bike. Its about the same power as the UB and 75lbs heavier. The light bee always seemed so small and I have found mtb suspension parts a bit lacking on the rutted out trails at the offroad park.

As far as I know this Ultra Bee is the cheapest adult sized e-dirt bike with moto suspension tires and brakes. Thats what really caught my attention.

 

[harrisonpatm]

A comparable [or likely better ] MC frame would be that of the Kawasaki kx100. You can pick up a running used one for under $2000 and sell the gas motor for $400. After you remove all the gas engine crap and add a QS4000 motor etc you will have a faster, lighter bike with better suspension — even cheaper and a title?

Very true, but not everybody has the skill or willingness to go through with a conversation project, even if it does end up being cheaper. Also, time is money, and some people have more money than time.

 

[DingusMcGee]

harrisonpatm,

Certainly there is room on the trail for those that bought the UltraBee or any of the other like edirtbikes for whatever reason. As cool as these bike/MC hybrids look, I suspect I would be underwhelmed having paid for one.

The cost of converting a good DHB to make an outstandingly good edirtbike is > $5000. The top quality Fox front and rear shocks are >$2500. I would speculate that the best Fox suspension beats all competitors. You get an 80 lb machine, not a 130 lbs beast. You will appreciate these lightweight builds for off-trail riding on steep wooded side hills. Recovery on these slopes is far easier when going lightweight.

Developing excellence comes at the cost of time and $$, as the finest is not yet for sale. A Husqvarna electric$$$ dirtbike is a heavy beast.

The current on the market suspension maX travel for bike components is 8”. Is more needed? For sure if you are very heavy or want many batteries on board. The UltraBee and likes have 8” of ad hoc suspension — a $250 fork? To get the next step up in good suspension maybe 11”? , you will likely find it on some smaller moto dirtbikes. 14” of suspension, useful for BigAir, but you’ll need a 37” seat height to fit all the dimension together.

Hence try Kx100 MC frame or maybe the ideal? kx112 (none for sale cheap yet) to get more suspension at the cost of more weight.

You will always find plenty of riding room when doing off-trail riding. Both moto dirt biking and pedal MTN biking build the kind of trails they excell at doing.

 

[DanGT86]

I built my first ebike on a downhill bike with 8" of suspension travel and wanted to believe it could be a suitable replacement for a motorcycle. It became clear on my first ride at the mx track and off road park that this was just not the case. My riding buddies could just sit and roll over tire ruts that I had to constantly stand and jump. Same with logs and rocks. Full size motorcycles feel so much more planted than bicycles.

Sure you can cram 4kwh on a mountain bike and stuff a big motor on it but It likely wont survive long term abuse. Even the best mtb forks and shocks are not designed for the unsprung weight of moto wheels. What happens when you bail and your 100lb mtb tumbles down the hill? those mtb forks are designed with weight reduction in mind and are designed for crashes involving 30lbs of bike. Bicycle brakes dont last long when you get into 300lb rider+bike weights.

I'll continue to enjoy overpowering bicycles like we all do but having tried really hard to hang with my friends on motos I'm definitely looking at bringing the right tool for the job.

The maximum lengths available in bicycle forks kinda limit the overall frame sizes available for light dirt bikes using bike forks. This ultra bee seems like a great step up for taller riders who want a light dirt bike.

I'm looking forward to more reviews on the suspension of this ultra bee from riders who really know dirt bike suspension. Having clamp diameters for common motorcycle fork sizes would be nice and save lots of trouble for future swaps with well supported forks. I have not been impressed with the forks on any made in china dirt bike I have ridden. Sur-Ron seems to take itself more seriously than the Chinese Honda clone dirt bikes they sell at the hardware store. So hopefully the ultra bee suspension is passable for the casual trail rider and not just a pogo stick.

 

[DingusMcGee]

DanGT86,

Quality exits — you state 8” of travel but you fail to state what brand of fork? The Rock Shox dual stanchion fork is cheesy mush.

Certainly bike components used in conversions have the obvious additional weight limitations for a rider. If you seek a mere 20% sag with the Fox X2 Float on an edirtbike you cannot be much heavier than 160 lbs. There may not be MTB frame suited for a 300+ lbs rider. If you are one of those 300+ lbs rider, you will need moto wheels.

Quality exist — you fail to state what brand of DHB frame you chose for that build. Some DHB frames are mush.

I have seen my Fox forked Big Hit heading ( upright on the wheels not tumbling) straight down a steep hill for some 200’ and then crash into the trunk of a tree — no damage.

Bike brakes? One my dirt conversions is set up as a fixie and may get rear regen. The Hayes 4 piston pads may wear slower yet.

Simply put: there exists terrain that where a well built edirtbike will outperform the heavier moto and commercial electric MCs.

Yes, a big moto cycle does feel so stable on those common piles of logs to jump and get air — F-ing boring — little skill — but well suited to the big machines that cruise those contrived thrills.

So, thanks for the OP. It looks like so far, these commercial edirtbikes are somewhat inferior to a good quality edirtbike build. Did you forget to say that the Ultra SuperBee was solely intended for 300+lbs riders?

It will probably be a well before the UltraBee suspension is AGA the Kawasaki kx112?

 

[DanGT86]

DingusMcGee

I was thinking 300lbs total weight as bike plus rider. So something like a kitted out 250lb rider on a normal non E DH bike. I have heard people complain about brake life and suspension tuning for bigger riders like that. I just generally feel like that is approaching the limits of what bikes are designed for.

A 12kw ebike with 4kwh of battery or a sur-ron light bee on mtb suspension and brakes is close to this 300lb total with a more avg adult male rider like 175-200lbs.

My own experience riding my 7kw big hit with dual crown Marzoochi fork on motorcycle trails made me want a full size moto for that use. Your experience may be different.

I guess what I am trying to say is that I think this new Ultra-Bee seems to really fill a hole in the market. Spec for spec I feel like the closest thing to the ultra bee on the market is the KTM Freeride EXC at $12k!

I have seen your fabrication skills. You have a way above average level of creativity and motivation to get it done. But with fabrication and machining being at or above $100/hour I think all of our conversions cost more than these production bikes.

 

[SlowCo]

I think Sur Ron has a great line up with the Light Bee, Ultra Bee and Storm Bee. Especially if they can be road registered. With different tire/wheel combos, suspension tweaks/replacement you can take the Sur Ron version that comes closest to your use case/preferred power/weight class and customize it to be almost perfect.
An Ultra Bee with a set of 17" road wheels and sticky tires to hoon in and around the city and to be able to swap back in the off road wheel/tire set (standard or 18"/21" custom) to silently(!) explore the woods, seems about right. :thumb:

 

[DingusMcGee]

DanGT86,

Yes, there is a niche where you have a good lightweight elec MC that has more durable components than are available as bike add-ones.

We are both looking at ways to get such a fitting?

As for getting such an item, I have so far acquired the kx100 and 2 QS geared motor sizes.

It has been good discussion so tell us when you get the Ultra Bee tricked out.

 

[sendler2112]

youtubers are just now getting review samples of the Sur Ron Ultra and Storm. Dealers are telling me April or May and are quoting $400 over msrp to take a deposit.
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[sendler2112]

Sur Ron Storm
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[sendler2112]

 

[Eastwood]

I think the ultra Bee is a decent production bike. that being said there’s some things to take in consideration. You’re paying 8k+ for a bike that has fast ace suspension which isn’t the worst but nothing to brag about. Then it comes with 19 inch rims front and rear. They should’ve offered a package with 21”/18” since it’s geared toward trail, riding or Enduro. So it seems like it’s another Chinese dirtbike that needs at least 2 or 3k+ worth of upgrades.
I think these bikes are for people that have money to throw around. You could easily take 5k and build a full size conversion that would be superior to this Chinese production bike.

Here’s a new video comparing the three different models.

 

[SlowCo]