The best TSDZ2B MTB set

[astronaut]

I got a good price for a set of Tongsheng tsdz2b + EKD01 +17ah (samsung cells) battery. So I bought it.
I am building a light(I will replace the battery with a 7-10Ah one later) e-bike based on old Specialized MTB frame(hardtail)
and I found information about OSF, lighting, brakes and gear shift sensors(cut-off)(?)...

From what I've read on forums and YouTube:

-for OSF I need SW102 + st-link v2


-for lighting I need differend speed sensor


-for brakes.. magnets on glue are complete crap, so I need new brake levers:



-for gear shift sensor I need(?) shift sendor itself and cable(which connects to one of the cables going to the brake sensors?)


Please add something from your experience.
What should I add or remove?
I would be happy with any recommendations.

 

[marvin78]

Since when does tsdz2b support / ships anywhere with a gear shift sensor? Better yet, why would a torque assist based ebike need one?

If you don't mash your gears riding a normal bike, you're fine with a tsdz2b or anything torque based. You can drop down gears under slight load with most shifters/cassete's but you need to let off the power a bit when shifting up to bigger gears. And they way this happens, is just as with any bike, by putting less power through the pedals.

I am not using brake lever sensors either, and in 5k km this hasn't caused me to mash my nylon gear.. I don't do trackstand starts though. That's the only tradeoff not being able to put force on the pedals when standing still. But there is a setting which will prevent the motor from turning on only based on torque sensor input if there is no previous rotation. Trade off is a tad slower engagements on starts.

I've had a few moments, just before or during a crash, where I was grabbing brakes while still being in a body position where putting some power on the pedals was unavoidable, but as I said my gears seems fine so far.

Now, do they actually have negatives except additional costs, I don't think so. It's not like those integrated brakes with sensors are much heavier then my Shimano levers. But I do like the way they modulate from slight braking to full on 'you're not going anywhere anymore'. Gear shift sensor.. like I said on a bbso2 or something: first thing you need to install ( or use the brake sensors constantly ). Because the assist doesn't stop when you stop pedaling. But that is not true for anything based on a torque sensor, motor engagement can track your inputs pretty closely.

I think SW102 is probably the more suitable display for a lightweight/minimalist build. Maybe DZ40 is comparable but I would stay far from enerprof if avoidable.

 

[astronaut]

Many thanks for the explanation!
yes, you're right - I do reduce the load on pedals to almost zero when shifting gears (on a regular MTB) to avoid cracking the chain and tearing the cassette (etc.).
So the gear shift cutoff is definitely not needed, but here:

Trade off is a tad slower engagements on starts.

- 80% of my riding is bike paths, roads, sidewalks, curbs and LOTS of traffic lights.
I very often stand with my foot on the pedals and only the brakes hold me... As soon as the light turns green - the brakes are released and we start))
So I will still need the cut-off on the brakes...
And as mentioned above - a quick-easy start, this is the main thing I need in the city. I spend 80% of my stamina on starts and uphill climbs (the city where I live now has long 10% climbs 1-2 km long.)
But when the bike picks up speed, the road is straight and there is no wind - I almost don't need the motor.

 

[Az.]

Since when does tsdz2b support / ships anywhere with a gear shift sensor? Better yet, why would a torque assist based ebike need one?

Tongsheng don't do gear shift sensors. Bafang does and it looks like they work with TSDZ8. Not sure about TSDZ2B, but there is a good chance it should work.
The more power you use the more you need gear shift sensor.

Installing brake sensors is a good practice.

 

[Az.]

Keep in mind TSDZ2B was not designed and is not marketed by Tongsheng as motor for MTBs. Yes, many people were and still are using it for that purpose, but it is more out of desperation and because there were not that many available alternatives on the market in the past. TSDZ2B is quite old now and obsolete. TSDZ8 is far superior when it comes to mountain biking. You might like to rethink your design if there is still time unless price is deciding factor.

 

[marvin78]

The more power you use the more you need gear shift sensor.

True that, but the torque sensor does help with shifting normally without them. As I said, I wouldn't use a cadence sensor assist without a gear shift sensor, and the risks of mishaps increase with additional power so it makes a lot more sense on higher power motors.

- 80% of my riding is bike paths, roads, sidewalks, curbs and LOTS of traffic lights.

I very often stand with my foot on the pedals and only the brakes hold me... As soon as the light turns green - the brakes are released and we start))

I did as well, until getting the tsdz2b and the only option it shipped with were cable actuated levels which are useless, or stick on magnets. I did look into some ebike specific hydraulic brakes but I couldn't find a lot of reviews and I kind of adapted how I ride to cope without them. Now I hardly miss them, I might be a tad slower off the grid so to say, but compared with before the Tongshen I more then make up for it in a couple of meters. Time/effort wise, I don't think it would really affect my travel times or enjoyment ( stamina costs ). As I said, few moments where I know I was both grabbing brakes in desperate attempt to not crash, while still having weight on the pedals but I haven't mashed that nylon gear to bits yet. I do have a faster motor slowdown enabled in OSF, I feel this should help a bit.

Does that mean it's not 'best practice' to use brake sensors, I am certain it does not. But I'm getting away with not having them so far.

Tell you what, you give us a link to the brakes you're going to use, and after some time if you like them I will get the same one's

Keep in mind TSDZ2B was not designed and is not marketed by Tongsheng as motor for MTBs. Yes, many people were and still are using it for that purpose, but it is more out of desperation and because there were not that many available alternatives on the market in the past. TSDZ2B is quite old now and obsolete. TSDZ8 is far superior when it comes to mountain biking. You might like to rethink your design if there is still time unless price is deciding factor.

Tsdz8 is twice as heavy, and doesn't come with OSF capable controllers. It is mechanically stronger, and offers a higher power output but that's why it's twice as heavy.

I ride single track pretty often and I've had no issues. OP is doing mainly road, he should be fine. The issue with the tsdz2(b) is the weak spindel not holding out for heavy overweight people standing on the pedals while getting air.

You can/should also add additional bearings if you do plan on rough usage, the bearings are cheap and adding them is easy enough.

The other advantage of Tsdz8 is better cooling, but for tsdz2b you can get this as well by increasing contact area between motor and housing ( I bought and installed the cooling kit from ebikestuff.eu )

Tsdz8 is more an addition to the lineup, in a different segment, then the successor of the tsdz2b.

 

[Az.]

True that, but the torque sensor does help with shifting normally without them. As I said, I wouldn't use a cadence sensor assist without a gear shift sensor, and the risks of mishaps increase with additional power so it makes a lot more sense on higher power motors.

I have TSDZ2B and TSDZ8. Neither of them cuts power off instantly.

I did as well, until getting the tsdz2b and the only option it shipped with were cable actuated levels which are useless, or stick on magnets. I did look into some ebike specific hydraulic brakes but I couldn't find a lot of reviews and I kind of adapted how I ride to cope without them.

Me too, but brake sensors are more like seatbelts in car. You don't need them until you do. You wrote yourself:

I've had a few moments, just before or during a crash, where I was grabbing brakes while still being in a body position where putting some power on the pedals was unavoidable, but as I said my gears seems fine so far.

Those situations happen more often than we want and we don't want wheel spinning out of control when we fly with bike, do we?


Also there is matter of emergency braking. You don't want to motor work against you when you must stop instantly.

Can live without brake and gear sensors, but it is a good practice to install them.

Tell you what, you give us a link to the brakes you're going to use, and after some time if you like them I will get the same one's

OK... it is a bit embarrassing, but I don't have gear or brake sensors... yet
I guess it is do what I say, not what I do case

(brake sensors ordered, delivered, but waiting in a box for spring season)

Tsdz8 is more an addition to the lineup, in a different segment, then the successor of the tsdz2b.

Agreed.

 

[marvin78]

I have TSDZ2B and TSDZ8. Neither of them cuts power off instantly.

In the java configurator you can set 'motor deceleration (%)'. Used to be called differently, can't remember/don't know. Mine is set to 75%, the old setting for faster spindown had it on 100% if ticked, and recommended is 0-50. Pretty sure this helps getting strain of the chain faster.

But you all convinced me, brake sensors are a good thing.

I will wait for someone to post their hydraulic e-mtb aftermarket brakes and how they compare to their original one's. Or maybe I should just get the one's with the magnets.

 

[Az.]

In the java configurator you can set 'motor deceleration (%)'. Used to be called differently, can't remember/don't know. Mine is set to 75%, the old setting for faster spindown had it on 100% if ticked, and recommended is 0-50. Pretty sure this helps getting strain of the chain faster.

Java configurator? What is that?

I will wait for someone to post their hydraulic e-mtb aftermarket brakes and how they compare to their original one's. Or maybe I should just get the one's with the magnets.

I ordered magnets. I might change display though (VLCD5 is awful), so I might need new sensors. One of reasons why I didn't install them yet.

 

[marvin78]

Ow damn yeah that was the other reason, you need vlcd5 for the brake connectors they aren't on the breakout cable

@astronaut you post a 1 to 2 cable for those brake connectors, but how exactly will you connect those? The breakout cable 2-1 for the speedsensor is speedsensor and lights not brakes, the connector for brake detection is only inside the vlcd5 and you can't splice it from the display connector manually afaik.

Java configurator ->

 

[Az.]

Ow damn yeah that was the other reason, you need vlcd5 for the brake connectors they aren't on the breakout cable

You need 1T4 cable... I think.

tsdz8 tsdz2 tsdz2b 1T4 cable with thumb throttle and Electric bike brake level for tongsheng Mid drive motor

tsdz8 tsdz2 tsdz2b 1T4 cable with thumb throttle and Electric bike brake level for tongsheng Mid drive motor

www.pswpower.com

Here you can buy it together with display.

Hmm... don't think I can get java configurator for TSDZ8. Makes me wonder why somebody would have lag set to more than zero

 

[Zambam]

I installed this brake sensor (just one) https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B096B23P1Y/ref on my Raleigh with TSDZ2. The double sided tape that came with the kit is garbage does not stick. I have these double sided foam adhesive pads from the 99 cent store which works great. I't been on the bike now for almost a year and has not come off yet.

 

[marvin78]

Stupid me, assuming everyone is as stupid as me and got the model with only 6 pin connector ( no throttle support on my motor )

Yeah, everyone else who isn't stupid got the model with throttle support.. if only to butcher it for a speed sensor without violating all that putty they put on the controller to waterproof it.

Hmm... don't think I can get java configurator for TSDZ8.

100% sure you can't, there is no OSF for it atm. I only mentioned it because you said the tsdz2 slowed down just as fast ( or not ) as the tsdz8.

Makes me wonder why somebody would have lag set to more than zero

I think to get a smooth assist delivery curve not cut off when people use just a little less pressure on one pedal stroke compared to the previous one? And it should also keep all the gearing running smoother, less surge loads?

I don't think my settings are 'good' or anything, even if so far they been working for me.

 

[Az.]

Stupid me, assuming everyone is as stupid as me and got the model with only 6 pin connector ( no throttle support on my motor )

I have 8 pin connector, but didn't install throttle. Law enforcement here is quite funny and allergic to throttles. For some throttle equals illegal, which is not true, but I prefer to avoid trouble if possible. Don't miss it that much on bike with TSDZ8 to be honest.

I think to get a smooth assist delivery curve not cut off when people use just a little less pressure on one pedal stroke compared to the previous one? And it should also keep all the gearing running smoother, less surge loads?

I don't think my settings are 'good' or anything, even if so far they been working for me.

It does make sense. I didn't install OSF on TSDZ2B and indeed power delivery is not that smooth. It has been greatly improved on TSDZ8.

 

[astronaut]

I will wait for someone to post their hydraulic e-mtb aftermarket brakes and how they compare to their original one's. Or maybe I should just get the one's with the magnets.

I have an old buget Tektro auriga come brakes (hydraulic).
I'm sure that the ones I posted above - will definitely be no worse than them.
And as for the magnet stickers, glue etc....back when I was into car repair in my early youth in a "garage cooperative", the guys and I called it "rural tuning")) (tuning in the style of the movie Mad Max, or rusian ladas)

@astronaut you post a 1 to 2 cable for those brake connectors, but how exactly will you connect those? The breakout cable 2-1 for the speedsensor is speedsensor and lights not brakes, the connector for brake detection is only inside the vlcd5 and you can't splice it from the display connector manually afaik.

I have 4 cables going from the motor to the handlebars.
2- brakes
1- display
1- throttle
I thought I could connect the 1 -> 2 plug to one of the "brake cables", and one end would go to the brakes, and the other to the - "shifter-sensor" (you could even install it somewhere at the beginning of the frame, where the cable comes from the right shifter), so from 2 brake cables I make 3 cables: 2 for brakes and 1 for shifter.
(but, as I wrote above, even if it works - I won't install it because I really always reduce the force to almost zero when I shift gears)
But with brakes, this is not the case. I often stand on the pedals "on the brakes", I often modulate the brakes before I have time to stop pedaling, etc.

 

[astronaut]

I think to get a smooth assist delivery curve not cut off when people use just a little less pressure on one pedal stroke compared to

I worked as a bikebuilder for a while. We assembled a lot of electric bicycles (almost with Yamaha and Bosch engines), I really liked their smoothness and realistic feeling, as if you just have "bionic legs", but they are yours, not robotic prostheses.
And the main thing (for me for sure) - is that you're still riding a bicycle, just with "super strength", not an electric "moped-bike".
That's why I decided to take Tongsheng, not Bafang.
And it would be nice to be able to configure it the same way (or as similar as possible) on both the Z2B and the Z8.
P.S. Also - before that I had for some time MXUS 500w ("gear-type"in the rear wheel) I didn't really like it, if not to say that - I didn't like it at all. I "lived" separately (with my bicycle), and the motor - separately, and the bicycle's "gearbox" also took no part in the "life of the motor".

The double sided tape that came with the kit is garbage does not stick.

I have hydraulic brakes, it's not so convenient with these stickers etc.
I'll be honest - on Tektro auriga there's not even anywhere to glue them, because the cylinder body is rounded, the handle travel is only a few millimeters (the brakes are very sensitive) from 0 to 100%(full wheel lock).

And in machanical case - everything is easier x10, because mechanical brake levers cost a penny... and you don't have to play with stickers and magnets. but - it's up to everyone to decide what they like.
Wife's bike - on Shimano BR-M375 (one of the best budget mechanical disc brakes) - I will change the levers to the levers with the buid-in sensors for sure

 

[marvin78]

I have an old buget Tektro auriga comp brakes.
I'm sure that the ones I posted above - will definitely be no worse than them.
And as for the magnet stickers, glue etc....back when I was into car repair in my early youth in a "garage cooperative", the guys and I called it "rural tuning")) (tuning in the style of the movie Mad Max, or rusian ladas)

Ow I have quite basic entry level Shimano's, but I am really used to how they feel. Just as with my shifter, when I 'upgraded' my rd and cassette I bought the cheapest 10x set and put it on the bike ( old rd was crap ).. I rode it like that for a very short time, I hated the new shifter because it doesn't allow multi direction downshifts. So I did some more reading and turns out my Shimano deore shifter has the same pull as L-twoo's rd. So now I got my Shimano shifter back on, it's so much nicer it's also exactly where I want it to be and not have to reach for it trying to press it with my thumb.

The magnets probably work pretty well I got no doubt. But they look hideous. I wouldn't mind some nice integrated levers, but they would need to 'feel' close to what I'm used to in progression.

That's why I decided to take Tongsheng, not Bafang.

Yeah Tongshen -> bionic legs Bafang = emoped

 

[astronaut]

Ow I have quite basic entry level Shimano's, but I am really used to how they feel.

I've ridden almost everything(non-competition level) from totalcheapchinaNoname, Tourney and to Deore XT, +Sram X3,X5.
Now I have an Alivo, my wife's bike - on Acer. Acer - is a class below, but I can't say that the shifting is worse(the rear derailleur even seems to work abit smoother)... a lot depends on the cassette, the derailleurs themselves, the chain, and even the cable (and its housing(not a joke)).

magnets probably work pretty well
But they look hideous.

100%. but as I wrote above - ir depends.. on my tektro brakes there is nowhere to even stick them. and.. adjust the distance when the brake lever travel (near the base) is 2-3mm... this can make you think about suicide.

 

[marvin78]

I've ridden almost everything(non-competition level) from totalcheapchinaNoname, Tourney and to Deore XT, +Sram X3,X5.

That specifically, on my side, alluded to brakes. Not drive train.

Even if it does apply just as well to the drive train, always had entry/mid level shimano stuff. And was considering going Cues.. but I didn't know how long I would still enjoy riding tbh so I went with the cheapest options available which is L-twoo. Must say, I am not dissapointed. It's maybe a tad less smooth, but then again the last cassette which paired with my Deore shifter was 11-32 not 11-50.. so I can live with it being a bit nosier and maybe a fraction of a second slower in engagement of gears.

The Alivo's generally do shift easily, but they are 7 speed 11-32 cassette's. I feel this might be perfect for a 50t or up chainring on a fatbike, but less so on a mountainbike. For commuting the Allivo's are quite fine.

 

[astronaut]

I have 8 pin connector, but didn't install throttle....
...Don't miss it that much on bike with TSDZ8 to be honest.

Yeah, I’m also not planning to install a throttle anytime soon. (Like, as someone with 5 years of motorcycle experience, I’d rather stick with a proper twist throttle, u know)) But seriously - I just don’t wanna turn my bike into some "half-"moped"". I want it to be a proper e-bike, not a wannabe "scooter".
As for the Z8, I’m still on the fence. For now, I’ve ordered the Z2B and wanna test it out.
If it works for me, I’ll get the same one for my wife’s bike (but with a lighter battery, like 7-10Ah, around 2kg).
If not, I’ll grab the Z8 for myself (with 17Ah bat, 4kg), and my Z2B will go on her bike.

P.S. with the 2B, I’ll at least be putting in some effort to keep my weight in check, and maybe even drop 2-3 kg (from 83 to 80). I’ve packed on a few extra kilos over the past year thanks to my desk job). But with the Z8, that option goes out - no chance to burn anything off!))

The Alivo's generally do shift easily, but they are 7 speed 11-32 cassette's. I feel this might be perfect for a 50t or up chainring on a fatbike, but less so on a mountainbike. For commuting the Allivo's are quite fine.

I have Shimano Alivio SL-M3100-R (9 speed) + Shimano Alivio 11-34 CS-HG400 9 speed. (wife's bike - 8 speed Acera)

 

[Zambam]

The magnets probably work pretty well I got no doubt. But they look hideous.

The magnets probably work pretty well I got no doubt. But they look hideous. I wouldn't mind some nice integrated levers, but they would need to 'feel' close to what I'm used to in progression.

Mine is mounted on the bottom where it cannot be seen, I had forgotten that I have them till this post. In the background, it is doing its job, protecting the motor. The sensitivity (lever movement till cutout) is easily adjustable by varying distance of the magnet. Not sure if integrated levers can do that?

 

[marvin78]

Not sure if integrated levers can do that?

Honestly I don't know either, but I would assume this is adjustable just as level throw? Guess this is also why I am still searching for real good reviews of someone putting aftermarker integrated brake levels on thier bike.

There are lots of hydraulic scooter brakes which would physically fit, and lots of scooters who can go at speeds outpacing my bike by far so their brakes must be at least half decent.

But without someone who tried before me, I would feel like I'm probably throwing money away,

 

[astronaut]

For everyone who was curious about brake levers with integrated cut-offs,
right after installing and bleeding:

and after testing them:


I can say they work really well, cutting off the motor power instantly as soon as I press the lever just a few millimeters.
Riding with them feels much safer and more enjoyable.
And the funniest part? In terms of feel, I can’t even tell the difference between these and the old ones (Tektro Auriga Comp). The modulation, how they respond to pressure, the return - everything’s exactly the same.

Also, after testing gear shifting - I had to shift down under a hill a couple of times(a lot)), going from the 9th gear to the 3rd or 4th because I forgot to do it earlier.
And you know what? The motor kept some pulling the chain, making the shifts pretty rough.

So here’s my conclusion:
A brake cut-offs - are absolutely essential. The more intense your riding, the more you need it.
As for a shifter cut-off - it’s not a must if you’re good at managing the load during shifts and don’t ride often on steep hills or off-road.
P.S. all the testing was done on the stock firmware straight out of the box, using the EKD-01 display.

 

[marvin78]

Where did you buy that brake set? I tried using google image search but I can't find any matching adds.

I know Nfox has multiple models which have the correct higo-z812-b connectors, but it's not really a brand which has been reviewed a lot sadly. Just like Zoom which is the other brand where I can easily find brakes with the right connector.. but no one has reviewed them so I don't feel like jumping in the deep first.

edit:

https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/1005006321121598.html

That's the closest to your image I could find, but your brakes say Nfox VIP and these are 'just' B015's. Complete set ( including calipers and discs ) is around 100 bucks but you can buy the two levels separate for 31 euro a piece. That's still only leaving 40 bucks for both the calipers if you just get the set...

But as I said, the issue I have with these brake(sets) is their 'unknown' factor. I would like to follow the path most traveled so to say, but not many people ventured on these roads ( and documented it ).

 

[astronaut]

I know Nfox has multiple models which have the correct higo-z812-b connectors, but it's not really a brand which has been reviewed a lot sadly.

NFOX GT267 3pin. There are a lot of good reviews on Aliexpress. They look really pretty solidly made (and not too cheap, to be honest). ... I don't know how long they will last... we'll see.