docw009
1 MW
If those low cost Chinese EV's work out as well as reviewers claim, they will be manufactured in Mexico and South America,
Trump is against everyone having an electric car
- Thread starter KevinJ
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The Toecutter
100 kW
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2015
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It's the USA automakers' own fault if they go under from this. They could have done what the Chinese are doing today, 20-25 years ago, using 1st world labor. The problem is that they feel entitled to everyone's money, and will use government to extract more of it. This entitlement is why mass transit systems in the USA were dismantled in the mid 20th century, why the only options for new enclosed vehicles cost at least as much as most people make in a year, why they consume 2-3x more energy than is necessary for a given amount of performance/utility/safety, why these manufacturers dragged their feet on EV tech after it started becoming potentially competitive to ICE almost 3 decades ago, and why modern vehicles are designed to end up in landfills at end of life instead of economically repaired.
There should be NO BAILOUTS. Let them adapt, or die.
There should be NO BAILOUTS. Let them adapt, or die.
Hillhater
100 TW
You cannot blame western Govnmts and Automakers totally for the way the industries have progressed to more complex, high cost products.
We, ( the consumers) have encouraged, even demanded, bigger, more comfort, more functions, more safety features, etc..? and the automakers have filled those demands.
The (delayed) move to EVs is itself the result of public pressure to move away from Fossil fuels, and the Auto industries simply complied with govrnmt legislation & taxs, that forced them to comply.
So expensive ,complex EVs are the result of our own comsumer demands.
The US and the West could never compete with the eastern (Chinese) low cost products due to the high labour, energy, and other overhead costs we have in the west, and the subsidies provided by the Chinese to their manufacturers.
We, ( the consumers) have encouraged, even demanded, bigger, more comfort, more functions, more safety features, etc..? and the automakers have filled those demands.
The (delayed) move to EVs is itself the result of public pressure to move away from Fossil fuels, and the Auto industries simply complied with govrnmt legislation & taxs, that forced them to comply.
So expensive ,complex EVs are the result of our own comsumer demands.
The US and the West could never compete with the eastern (Chinese) low cost products due to the high labour, energy, and other overhead costs we have in the west, and the subsidies provided by the Chinese to their manufacturers.
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We sure can blame marketing, advertising, and persuasion. Just look at the ads shown on television, especially during sports shows or the news. Alluring, attractive new models shown in beautiful environments, with sexy people. Just like cigarettes were pushed on us, the new models will make you sought after, popular, high-status, etc. The message is pushed both consciously and subconsciously, impossible to ignore.
Chalo
100 TW
We can more accurately blame the turdburgers who fall for the marketing. What kinda retarded tourist does it take to say yes to his enemies?
offGridDownUnder
1 kW
Yeah, but the EVs won't make you thin. Just sayin'
crunchysteve
1 W
My US2c (AU3c 
) is that China thanks Trump. Reality is, with BYD on the doorstep of mid to long haul aviation capable cells with their blade technology, and even Elon doing deals with BYD, the EV sector is safe as houses from scooters, bikes, cars, trucks, boats to planes.
As a once small town bicycle advocacy leader, though. I think e-cars set the alternative urban transport campaign behind by decades. Wind and hydro grid supply is growing where I live, so it's super hard to convince people that a bicycle or taking the train (or doing both, an allowed option where I live, bikes on trains) is still better for the environment than an EV. My local federal Parliament member has completely ignored rail (the EV everybody owns!) while campaigning for ecar subsidies - middle class welfare - when it's the gig economy drivers like couriers and Uber contractors who need the subsidies out of petrol vehicles.
Trump mouthing off is the circus but the locals clean up the parade ground when the circus leaves town.
) is that China thanks Trump. Reality is, with BYD on the doorstep of mid to long haul aviation capable cells with their blade technology, and even Elon doing deals with BYD, the EV sector is safe as houses from scooters, bikes, cars, trucks, boats to planes.As a once small town bicycle advocacy leader, though. I think e-cars set the alternative urban transport campaign behind by decades. Wind and hydro grid supply is growing where I live, so it's super hard to convince people that a bicycle or taking the train (or doing both, an allowed option where I live, bikes on trains) is still better for the environment than an EV. My local federal Parliament member has completely ignored rail (the EV everybody owns!) while campaigning for ecar subsidies - middle class welfare - when it's the gig economy drivers like couriers and Uber contractors who need the subsidies out of petrol vehicles.
Trump mouthing off is the circus but the locals clean up the parade ground when the circus leaves town.
Well, either we run out of resources and then the party stops regardless of people's wishes, or someone invents a new unlimited source of energy - then we switch to next level of excess. But for the ones living their lifes now - it's better to own a car than to be owned by one, and I think people are learning that now.
Hillhater
100 TW
BYDs Blade thechnology is no closer to practical mid/long haul aviation , than any other lithium battery technology was 10 years ago !
Energy density has to increase several fold before anything beyond short flight demonstrators are viable, technically, let alone commercially !
crunchysteve
1 W
Recent post by Just Have a Think about a BYD press release not in production yet, but you don't make noises about prototype tests unless they're beyond expectation... well, unless you're Apple
(Apple user here, allowed to make that joke...)Let the 3rd world solve the problems the 3rd world way. I would not be worried too much about their skills - after all, necessity is the mother of invention. Just make the damn thing fixable and they will fix it, even if the whole 1st world decides it's not worth it. In former eeastern bloc people were even making parts themselves because nothing else was available.
Recently i have seen Renault Espace from 1992 or so - still running fine, everything onboard working, quite comfortable. It lacked nothing, ok doesnt have a backing camera or lane assist but who needs these anyway.. And the car can be fixed and maintained indefinitely, as long as parts are available . The chassis is plastic btw so it will never rust. And that cool 'back to the future' look...
But I can see that with such bad design decisions car producers would be out of business soon. Or maybe they'd have to invent flying cars to keep people coming.
Hillhater
100 TW
Yes, that works to some extent with simple devices, but there is a limit to what you can fix without special tools, training and spares .. Asian street mechanics (Vietnam , India, etc) are famous for their ability to strip and repair those Honda Mopeds with little more than a hammer and screwdriver,…even repairing wrecked trucks without spares available.
But, presented with a bricked EV battery, fried inverter, or melted motor, ..then without a extensive spares supply, even the few electrically skilled repairers are going to struggle. Generally these “poorest people” are poor simply because they do not have those skill levels.
crunchysteve
1 W
Against their limits are traditionally where humans have made the greatest advancements, too.
Well, iPhone wasn't supposed to be repaired in some street shops, battery wasn't supposed to be replaced, screen replacement - not even apple shops did that, maintaining that you need to scrap the phone and buy new. And still some guys with not much more than soldering iron and heater figured it out. Not certified, not authorized, with parts coming from some random places/scrap. Of course you're not getting 100% warranty, nobody can tell if it's still waterproof,etc. If Apple provided parts and documentation instead of spending engineering years on making the components 'secure' and irreplaceable, who knows, maybe everyone could repair Apple stuff without compromising on quality.
crunchysteve
1 W
Here in Australia, Elon seems to tanking his own brand without Donny Earache's help. From Australia's national public broadcaster...
www.abc.net.au
Does Tesla have a Musk problem? Data shows its reputation in Australia is tanking as sales fall
Data provided exclusively to the ABC shows Tesla's "brand health" in Australia has plummeted as some EV buyers say, "Musk has convinced me I don't want to buy a Tesla".
www.abc.net.au
crunchysteve
1 W
IKR!
I also think the article overstates the Elon effect. There's way more competition in the market. 70 models from 30 manufacturers available in Australia?! I find that level of product diversity in any market here astounding! Gotta be including hybrids in that stat, for sure.
I also think the article overstates the Elon effect. There's way more competition in the market. 70 models from 30 manufacturers available in Australia?! I find that level of product diversity in any market here astounding! Gotta be including hybrids in that stat, for sure.
Hmmm, and nothing to do with lack of educational and/or economic opportunities they are born into?
AGS
1 kW
When I was in India I met a fella who was building a complete car from scratch out of scrap metal using an arc welder and a ball peen hammer.
raylo32
100 kW
There is no pro-EV presidential pick simply because that is one of those third rails that can kill one's electoral hopes because the majority of the electorate is still under the thrall of ICE and oil. For better or worse. Logically, or not. IOW, one candidate coming out pushing EVs too hard might send enough votes to the "other guy" to swing the election. Heck, I'd be inclined to get an EV myself but not since the charging infrastructure is so bad and not really making sufficient progress. So, I'll drive my gassers and not get an EV to "make a statement", for now. But I'd love to be able to own one. And I'd love to be able to support a pro-EV candidate as long as the transition they propose makes sense. It is just going to take longer to happen than advocates believe or want. And having said all that, I'd vote for a pro-EV candidate even though I have no plans to get one soon. But I hope they would have a realistic plan and timeframe, not unabated wishful thinking.
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Hillhater
100 TW
Not really, Australia is one of a few countries that have not put import tarrifs on chinese EVs, as we have NO auto industry of our own.….So , they are diverting all their excess production stocks to us.
And every automaker in Europe now has EV models that they bring in also ( BMW, Merc, Renault, Peugeot, Kia, Hyundai , etc)
Quite a reversal of just a few years ago when the only EVs in the country were Tesla, S and X, and the Nissan Leaf !
..All very ironic since we had one of the first preproduction EVs ( Holden / GM Comodore) in the early 2000s, before even Tesla.
but that all went down when GM pulled out of Oz
Hillhater
100 TW
Sure, thats a primary cause of why they dont have those skills.
But i suspect that it was not an EV ?
..and the “ poorest” people in the world wont have an arc welder or a ball peen hammer !
crunchysteve
1 W
Yeah, strikes me as shoddier journalism than when I was a sound guy in their newsroom, but hey, old man yelling at clouds, me.
