unconventional ebike motors.

[Skyler]

Well, Ok but remember do not post anything personal. I want you to stick to questions only. Do not ever post any advice.

Yea. OK.

I will never give anyone any advice. on anything. or personal stuff so no worries there. I will show and prove thru videos what I can do by example. in real time. If a picture is worth 1,000 words then what is a video worth.

Thanks.

Skyler.

The 24V dual motor build is cancelled indefinably.

My next build I have pictures for. I got the pictures off google images but I own all three items in the pictures. All I need is hardware for mounting the motor and a chain and wheel sprocket. Gearing will be around 45 mph. And NO I am absolutely not recommending anyone to do it. I do not want anyone to get hurt so please don't.

The reasons I am building it is I have a really good idea what it will be capable of as I have put hundreds of miles on my 20" e bike with the 1,800W brushless motor and 38 amp 1,500W controller. I have hit 32.5 mph with 50V - LTO and will be using 55V LTO soon for 35 mph so the 3,000W build wll be 10 mph faster. Also with a 20" wheel I can get away with a smaller sprocket like 72 to 80T 8mm. . A 26" wheel would require a 100 to 120 tooth wheel sprocket

I am not sure if the controller I got is programmable or not. I am referring to power assist levels. I hope I can order a module that has 5 power assist levels like the one in my 1,500W hub kit. Also I do not know if a thumb throttle can work with power assist levels. ??? If someone knows please let me know. ?????? I can get the model # of the controller. I have it packed away in my basement as have people who go in my basement for wheels and parts / tools ect. So it is buried under a bunch of storage totes.

. I will have a camera / cameras soon for on board e biking as well as off board. My bikes will all have front as well as back brakes working good. I will be looking for a crash helmet for my next build for sure.

I am Skyler and living the dream.

Thanks

 

[Skyler]

I rode the full suspension to Walmart about 8PM 1112/2023. About 6 hours ago. It was dark and had good lights. 1,000 lumen LED lights they sell at Walmart for $14. They charge via USB. The rear light I put red duck tape over and they have two brightness settings and flashing.

The rear hub is super quiet and very smooth with the power assist levels. I tried the front chain at about 20 mph in power assist #3. The rear has the twist and front is a left thumb. Actually a right thumb backwards so push forwards instead of down.

The chain worked well and still could feel it kick in on power assist #4 from the rear motor. Also level #5 but did not do full throttle. Even with 50 pounds of LTO the bike handles well. Maybe not as well > 30 mph but still manageable.

When I was close to home I tried using just the front chain from a dead stop and it almost popped off. I need to tighten it up somehow. I know it is lined up good though as was close to full throttle with the front chain on power level 4 and 5 with the twist throttle. Since the rear hub is working I just pressed the thumb throttle until I could feel the front kicking in.

Even though the front chain almost popped off from a dead start it did not and was fully functional close to 30 mph cruising for miles. It is an 8 mile round trip. I just have to find a shorter hook for the tensioner or thick zip ties. Look at the pics.

I went to Walmart to get a phone so will take pictures now of the full suspension with the front motor. I will edit this post when I am done so you all can see what it is. I will check voltage on the LTOs and post that in LFP reverse polarity over in battery technology.



Thanks.

Skyler.

 

[Chalo]

I did not know that your bike already had a BLDC hub motor.

It would be infinitely more cost- and effort-effective to give that rear motor more power, than to add a huge amount of weight and points of failure just to use some inefficient, noisy 20th century scooter tech.

 

[Skyler]

Yea you do have a point. The rear hub runs perfect. It very quiet and smooth. My first controller that has power assist levels as well as my first twist throttle. I really like it.

The controller for both motors is 30 amps. The hub kit came with a 35 amp fuse but 30 amps stated on the controller at 48V and 1,500 watts. Doing the math 48 * 30 = 1,440W. Therefore it is not a true 1,500W motor. It is rated for 35 mph. It does 33.5 mph.

I have seen other kits for the same price boasting 40 and even 45 amp controllers. Both also with the speed settings. I might get one next year for my 700c. I have two but neither are full suspension and every time I ride it I like it even more.

The main purpose for the front was to prove I can. I tightened the chain up more using several zip ties on the chain tensioner. I think it could be useful off road for traction as well as steep hills.

It is geared for about 32 mph so don't even use it < 20 mph. When I am cruising 25 to 28 mph in level #4 power in the rear I will press the throttle for the chain until I feel it kick in for a few seconds then let off it and just use the rear.

Also it is experimental. Since chain drive motors are still way cheaper than hub motors I could build dual chain drive e bikes with even three motors in the future. Two on a rear rack and a front chain like that in the picture. Another reason for the build was to be able to mount a front chain to the fork and still have full function of the suspension fork.

My other front mounted chain in the past were not on a suspension fork and used 1-12 by 1-1/2 pressure treated deck railing. I also used BMX style handle bars for three points of contact. Two for the handle bars and one for the fork. If I replaced the wood with steel bed frame and used grade #8 bolts or a welder it could be possible to install an 1,800W brushless motor or a 3 kilowatt.

Chain drives may be out dated but try and explain that to a biker. There are a few electric motorcycles that run hubs but the fastest ones like the zero motorcycle and FX motors don't use either. They are belt driven.

In fact that type of mount would be perfect for a belt conversion. However one of my favorite sayings is "if it is not broken do not fix it. I can always attempt a belt drive on another build. The full suspension is my flag ship build. It expresses my building prowess. It will turn dozens of heads out on the road.

There are thousands of e bikes rolling around with a modern rear hub kit and if I take off the front chain my e bike will look like everyone else who installed a factory kit. That makes my e bike special and if for some strange reason the rear hub fails with a pedal chain and pedal gears I could pedal it fast enough to engage the front chain without it popping off and make it home.

Even though the 1,500W rear motor is a powerhouse and way more power and torque than the 1,000W front chain they can still work together as similar gearing.

Now if you think that 1,500W motor can out perform all my chain drives you will be mistaken. My 1,800W brushless chain drive runs circles over the 1,500W hub. For one thing the torque is ridiculous.. Also when you let off the throttle it is like a Jake brake on a big truck. It slows the e bike down because the magnets in that thing are so powerful.

The seat of the pants instant torque when you press that throttle is addicting. and why it has taken me over two years to even start the 3 kilowatt brushless chain drive. It will take even longer as I decided I will need to run #420 chain and nothing smaller. The motor currently has a 8mm motor sprocket. The 1,800W motor uses #420 chain so am looking for a large #420 or compatible sprocket.

I was thinking about putting the 3,000W motor on the back of the bike with the 1,800W and moving the 1,800W motor up front.
Not that will be a hairy ride.

NO. I am ABSOLUTLLY NOT recommending doing it. I am speaking for myself and everyone else. Right now it is only a pipe dream but I am capable of building such a thing. It will be something out of a MAD MAX movie if I do.

Thanks for posting.

Skyler.

 

[Skyler]

Yea you do have a point. The rear hub runs perfect. It very quiet and smooth. My first controller that has power assist levels as well as my first twist throttle. I really like it.

The controller for both motors is 30 amps. The hub kit came with a 35 amp fuse but 30 amps stated on the controller at 48V and 1,500 watts. Doing the math 48 * 30 = 1,440W. Therefore it is not a true 1,500W motor. It is rated for 35 mph. It does 33.5 mph.

I have seen other kits for the same price boasting 40 and even 45 amp controllers. Both also with the speed settings. I might get one next year for my 700c. I have two but neither are full suspension and every time I ride it I like it even more.

The main purpose for the front was to prove I can. I tightened the chain up more using several zip ties on the chain tensioner. I think it could be useful off road for traction as well as steep hills.

It is geared for about 32 mph so don't even use it < 20 mph. When I am cruising 25 to 28 mph in level #4 power in the rear I will press the throttle for the chain until I feel it kick in for a few seconds then let off it and just use the rear.

Also it is experimental. Since chain drive motors are still way cheaper than hub motors I could build dual chain drive e bikes with even three motors in the future. Two on a rear rack and a front chain like that in the picture. Another reason for the build was to be able to mount a front chain to the fork and still have full function of the suspension fork.

My other front mounted chain in the past were not on a suspension fork and used 1-12 by 1-1/2 pressure treated deck railing. I also used BMX style handle bars for three points of contact. Two for the handle bars and one for the fork. If I replaced the wood with steel bed frame and used grade #8 bolts or a welder it could be possible to install an 1,800W brushless motor or a 3 kilowatt.

Chain drives may be out dated but try and explain that to a biker. There are a few electric motorcycles that run hubs but the fastest ones like the zero motorcycle and FX motors don't use either. They are belt driven.

In fact that type of mount would be perfect for a belt conversion. However one of my favorite sayings is "if it is not broken do not fix it. I can always attempt a belt drive on another build. The full suspension is my flag ship build. It expresses my building prowess. It will turn dozens of heads out on the road.

There are thousands of e bikes rolling around with a modern rear hub kit and if I take off the front chain my e bike will look like everyone else who installed a factory kit. That makes my e bike special and if for some strange reason the rear hub fails with a pedal chain and pedal gears I could pedal it fast enough to engage the front chain without it popping off and make it home.

Even though the 1,500W rear motor is a powerhouse and way more power and torque than the 1,000W front chain they can still work together as similar gearing.

Now if you think that 1,500W motor can out perform all my chain drives you will be mistaken. My 1,800W brushless chain drive runs circles over the 1,500W hub. For one thing the torque is ridiculous.. Also when you let off the throttle it is like a Jake brake on a big truck. It slows the e bike down because the magnets in that thing are so powerful.

The seat of the pants instant torque when you press that throttle is addicting. and why it has taken me over two years to even start the 3 kilowatt brushless chain drive. It will take even longer as I decided I will need to run #420 chain and nothing smaller. The motor currently has a 8mm motor sprocket. The 1,800W motor uses #420 chain so am looking for a large #420 or compatible sprocket.

I was thinking about putting the 3,000W motor on the back of the bike with the 1,800W and moving the 1,800W motor up front.
Not that will be a hairy ride.

NO. I am ABSOLUTLLY NOT recommending doing it. I am speaking for myself and everyone else. Right now it is only a pipe dream but I am capable of building such a thing. It will be something out of a MAD MAX movie if I do.

Here is some pictures of my chain drives. All fully functional and many miles on them. The three e bikes are the 36V 1,000W chain on the 20" which is geared for 28 mph and my daily commuter.

The one with the front hub and rear chain is a 750W gear reduction motor rear and 350W front Bafang. The chain geared for 23 mph and Bafang about 21 mph.

The picture of the bike upside down with the inner tube in the box is my 1,800W brushless chain I discussed earlier. 35 mph gearing I think. I clocked it at 32.5 mph at 50V. As soon as I fix the tire it will get 55V - LTO and have my phone now for a GPS speedometer app. The fastest I ever went so far on any e bike is 33.5 mph or 54 kilometers per hour with the 1,500W kit before I installed the front chain above.

I wont be fixing the tire and putting the 3,000W motor on the back but will be riding it as is because if it is not broke do not fix it. That is a heavy duty cargo bike , not a race bike. It has a huge rear cargo basket and also a front basket for hauling stuff.

When I build the 3 kilowatt brushless chain I might order another 1,800W brushless chain for the front so will be a totally different e bike. I will run 20S - 1p 66V HEADWAY cells for 1/2 the weight of 22S - 55V - LTO

3,,000 / 60 = 50 * 66 = 3,300W

1,800 / 48 = 37.5 * 66 = 2,475

3,300 + 2,475 = 5,775W

Gearing = 56 mph.

Thanks

Skyler.

 

[Skyler]

Yea.

I am ordering a 1,500W hub motor kit for my Christmas present. I already have a 1,500 watt kit on my full suspension with the chain up front but this is a way better kit. I will not be adding a chain on the front with this new kit.

The first kit came with a wimpy 30 amp controller. Maybe 9 mosfets , not sure. It was advertised for 35 mph but only did 33.5 mph. The rpm of the motor was rated for 490 @ 48V. It was a 26" kit. With the front chain the first kit will be 2,500W total and suitable for off road with both wheels motorized.

The new kit will be on road only , preferably smooth roads. It will have narrower smoother tires for less resistance and hopefully the 37 mph it is rated for. Maybe even 40 mph with 56V of LIFEPO4.

It will never be bogged down with 50 pounds of LTO. The LIFEPO4 should only weigh about 25 pounds. It is for my Giant Roam so the build will be as clean looking as possible. It should look like a factory built e bike. All pedal gears and both brakes will be fine tuned to work flawlessly.

Check out the specs. on this 700c 1,500W kit. A 45 amp 12 mosfet controller , 37 mph and 560 rpm. @ 48V. If it is true then is a sweetheart of a deal.

Thanks.

Skyler out

.

e-bike Conversion Kit 48V 1000W Motor 1500W 26" 27.5" 28" 29” 700C Rear Wheel | eBay

48V 1500W about 50-60km/h. 540 for 48V 1500W. 35-45NM for 1500W. RPM: 470 for 48V 500W 1000W. Full Speed:48V 1000W about 45-55km/h. Torque: 30-40NM for 1000W. Rim: Double-wall Aluminium Alloy Rim. Motor Wheel.

www.ebay.com

 

[99t4]

Check out the specs. on this 700c 1,500W kit. A 45 amp 12 mosfet controller , 37 mph and 560 rpm. @ 48V. If it is true then is a sweetheart of a deal.

Looks good. Everything you need, competitive price.

Suggestion for you: When posting a link, delete all the string after the question mark, including the "?" Often that is tracking info. No need to broadcast your tracking info to us.

 

[99t4]

The first kit came with a wimpy 30 amp controller. Maybe 9 mosfets , not sure.

What was wimpy about it? Not actually 30 amp?

Correct me if I am wrong, but the number of controller mosfets does not directly correlate with the controller amperage rating.

 

[calab]

Depends on which fets you use.

This is a good read also

Motor Controller, why not bigger? 12 Fet vs 18 Fet

So I have been talking to Paul at em3ev.com. I am on the verge of placing an order with him and leaning towards buying either an 8t or 10t Mac 55/1000 motor and wheel system. Planning on using a 50 volt 15ah battery. I want to oversize the controller in case I ever decide to get a bigger motor...

endless-sphere.com

 

[Skyler]

What was wimpy about it? Not actually 30 amp?

I guess it is not that it is wimpy. It is not really 1,500W @48V.


48V * 30 amps = 1,440 watts. It states that it is 30 amps and 1,500W on the controller and has a 35 amp inline fise.

The controller in the 700c 1,500W kit I am ordering next month is 45 amps continuous. so

48V * 45 amps = 2,160 watts. Therefore it is really a 2,000 watt hub kit.

2,000 - 1,440 = 560 watts. That is a big difference. I will be lucky to reach 35 mph even at 55V of LTO with the 30 amp controller that came with the 26" kit.

If I were selling them it would be advertised as a 1,200 watt kit and 33 mph. It did 33.5 mph when I tested it. A 26 amp controller would be advertised as 1,000W and 28 mph.

If the 700c kit is as advertised I might hit 40 mph with 56V of LIFEPO4. We shall soon see.

Also I now see Jauopay 2,000 watt kits advertised. My guess is it is really a 1,500 watt motor with the 45 amp controller.

A dead give away is the rpms for the 700C - 1,500W kit is 560 and is the same as the Jauopay 2,000 watt kit. Jauopay just does not have an amp rating for their controller. It just states it is 2,000 watts.

I used to think that the 1,000W motors were the same as the 1,500W motors but typically a 1,000W motor will be rated at 430 to 480 rpm where a 1,500W motor is 490 to 560 rpm. I think a true 1,500W kit should have a minimum of 35 amps and 500 rpm.

48V * 35 amps = 1,680W.

Depends on which fets you use.

This is a good read also

That is a lot of information on the fets. The thing is how do you know what is in a controller without taking it apart which I do not want to try.

You just have to go with what is advertised and hope they are not lying. Also they will not advertise what quality the fets are , just the number of them.

My best bet is when running the hub kit. If it is advertised to go 35 mph and does not maybe the controller is a cheap guy.

Even if it will do 35 mph , will the controller run hot after a few miles or just a little warm. ?

Is it too hot to leave your hand on it ? Then the motor. Will the motor get hot or just warm after a few miles at 35 mph ???

That is the true test on the quality of both motors and controllers. Either way it is all a gamble. You will never know what you got until you run it.

I do know that my dual motor set up with the 30 amp hub controller and 30 amp brush for the front chain will work together to share a 30 mph load. With 20% heat loss factored in 1,250 watts may be required to maintain 30 mph cruising so

1,250W / 55V = 22.72 amps / 2 = 11.36 amps from each controller. Since the chain drive is geared for about 32 mph it wont share the load as well at 35 mph.

However a true 45 amp controller should hit 40 mph at 55v of LTO or 56V LIFEPO4 as

55V * 45 amps = 2,475 watts. It should be able to maintain 35 mph cruising for many miles on flat ground and not get too hot to hold your hand on both the motor and controller. If it gets really hot like enough to fry an egg then you will know you got robbed and the seller lied his ass off in the specs.

If I were to go with a front motor on the 700c Giant Roam it would be a 500W - 48V geared hub motor. It actually already has one. An e bkeling geared hub but the last time I ran it there was a loud noise.

I will probably just take it off. No rebuild kit for those but am thinking with a 3D printer parts cold be made , not sure. I really do not need or want a front motor for the Giant. As long as it comes with a true 45 amp controller a front motor would make no sense.

I already have two on / off road ebikes. The full suspension with the dual motors mentioned and an ebike with a 750 watt rear gear reduction chain with a 350W front Bafang geared hub. Both have 36V controllers and am running 13S - 43V LIFEPO4.

The reason for the 1,500W 700c is hopefully it will cruise for miles at 35 mph and not get too hot. Hopefully. Also I want a lighter e bike to ride with a 1,500W kit.

The full suspension is a very heavy ebike. Especially with 50 pounds of LTO. With 25 pounds of LIFEPO4 the Giant is probably 1/2 the weight as the 27.5" full suspension. The Aluminum Giant is probably 1//2 the weight of the full suspension steel frame.

Here is a youtube video of a similar build. A Giant Roam close to what I have but mine is black.

First Test Ride on 1500w DIY Ebikeling Ebike - 40 mph E-Bike​

Thanks.

Skyler.

 

[99t4]

My best bet is when running the hub kit. If it is advertised to go 35 mph and does not maybe the controller is a cheap guy.

Well they can advertise that but the smart intelligent prospective buyer will realize that is kind of a bogus claim anyways because it does not factor in aerodynamic drag and other losses (low-pressure large knobby fat tires?). IOW, (this is just a theoretical example) that kit on a skinny tire faired recumbent might reach 38 mph but on a fat tire highboy might only reach 32 mph.

How could they cover themselves for end user conditions beyond their control?

So your bike we are discussing, is it the one with the large frontal area (lots of drag)? Could that be the reason?

 

[Skyler]

Well they can advertise that but the smart intelligent prospective buyer will realize that is kind of a bogus claim anyways because it does not factor in aerodynamic drag and other losses (low-pressure large knobby fat tires?). IOW, (this is just a theoretical example) that kit on a skinny tire faired recumbent might reach 38 mph but on a fat tire highboy might only reach 32 mph.

How could they cover themselves for end user conditions beyond their control?

So your bike we are discussing, is it the one with the large frontal area (lots of drag)? Could that be the reason?

No.

That is a 750 watt gear reduction chain in the rear with a 350W Bafang up front. It has wide knobby tires. The rear tire a little wider than the front but not a fat tire bike. I don't have a fat tire bike. It is for off road conditions and I rarly even ride it. It is geared for about 24 mph.

My flagship build is the pics. below. Yes , I did change the tire. The stock tire was skinnier and smooth , not knobby.

I also agree that with both tires skinny and 10 pounds of battery vs. 50 pounds and maybe a 170 pound rider it could easily hit 35 mph. I did not want skinny tires so could do on and off road. I am happy with the dual motor set up and sharing the load with dual drive for up hills and maintaining 30 mph for an extended period of time.

All I need to do is maybe tighten up the chain tensioner from time to time. The front chain is a helper motor. By design it may not be capable of rolling the bike from a dead stop but works fine when you kick it in after pedaling or using the rear motor. I only rode it once and I tightened up the front chain when I got home. I will try it again the next time I ride it.

My point is a real 1,500W kit should hit 35 mph even with larger knobby tires. Maybe not huge fat tires though. It is why in my opinion it is a 1,200W kit and 33 mph. I can live with that as the front 1,000W chain is geared for about 32 mph so is still my flagship build.

The Giant Roam will get the true 1,500W 700c kit hopefully with the 45 amp 2 kilowatt controller advertised.

45 amps * 56V = 2,520 watts. That could be advertised as a 2,500W kit but if it was me I would advertise it as a 2,000W kit.

That is if the seller is being honest on the specs. We will see in about a month or less. I will be ordering it around the third of December for my Christmas present. That will be my final hub kit for a very long time. I still have the 3 kilowatt brushless chain drive for a winter project as well. Probably my last chain drive for a long time.

When both are finished I will have a total of 7 e bikes or one for every day of the week. That is a lot more than most. At that point I should just save up for an electric car or road legal electric motorcycle.

I might start building very simple 20" e bikes with 500W - 24V motors for street legal 20 mph gearing. I could incorporate a home made 8S - 24V - LIFEPO4 battery with a Bluetooth BMS. It should be affordable as only needs to be 25 amps as

25 amps * 24V = 600 watts. It will also have perfect working brakes. I might even buy the bikes brand new at WallMart or refurbished from a bike shop. It will be safe and not go faster than a healthy person can pedal. I am not looking to get anyone hurt. Just basic transportation back and forth to work or the grocery store.

I already built a beach cruiser with a 500 watt geared Bafang rear hub. The build was very clean and had someone else hook up both front and rear brakes. It was for my friend Tom as he is disabled with a bunch of steel pins in his feet and > 270 lbs. body weight. It is his only transportation and I refused to put a bigger motor on it as not looking to get my friend hurt.

He wants a 1,500W motor for a different full suspension and a 800 watt motor on a 3 wheeler. I told him I want no part of it and my other friend Dave that does the gas bikes can build those. I refuse to build a e bike for anyone that is geared > 20 mph. If someone upgrades a 24V bike to 36 or 48V that is on them. I wont be responsible for that.


Thanks.

Skyler out.

 

[nicobie]

Careful Curtis. Too much info and more than we need to know. Pls save it for your novel.

 

[99t4]

My point is a real 1,500W kit should hit 35 mph even with larger knobby tires.

No.

Not on a bike with two huge crates in the airstream!

View attachment 343213

Also: Doesn't the top speed depend on the motor winding turns?

 

[glennb]

I know what you meant, as in when voltage is held constant, so sorry to sound like a pedant, but for the benefit of other readers it should be pointed out that strictly speaking top speed depends on motor’s physical RPM limits and heat shedding/tolerance. Number of turns does not affect that, merely alters the voltage/current relationship.

 

[Skyler]

It is ok. 30 mph is fine for an ebike. It is built for on or off road and hauling cargo in the baskets. Not for top speed or racing. It is my flagship build with a working front chain drive.

My point is when advertising a 1,500 watt kit a 30 amp controller is not 1,500 watts @ 48V so they should advertise it as a 1,200W kit. A 35 amp controller should be minimum for a 1,500 watt kit and 45 amps for 2,000 watts.

30 * 48 = 1,440 - 1,200 watt kit. -

35 * 48 = 1,680 - 1,500 watt kit

40 * 48 = 1,920 - 1,800 watt kit

45 * 48 = 2,160 - 2,000 watt kit. -

That just makes sense.

With a 55V battery it should raise top speed by at least 2 mph for each of the above. When I ran the 30 amp 1,500W kit I used my old 17S LIFEPO4 packs. It is somewhere around 60% capacity I think so voltage SAG. It might hit 35 mph with 55V - 22S - LTO. Not sure. I have a cell phone now with a GPS speedometer app.

As long as the new kit for my 700c e bike is 45 amps it should hit 40 mph @ 56V LIFEPo4. Maybe newer LIFEPO4 though. I wont be running LTO for the Giant Roam. Either 26650 cells or 10 Ah HEADWAY. Less than 25 pounds for batter

did not know that your bike already had a BLDC hub motor.

It would be infinitely more cost- and effort-effective to give that rear motor more power, than to add a huge amount of weight and points of failure just to use some inefficient, noisy 20th century scooter tech.

Well that is debatable. I do my research.

Hub drive vs Chain drive

Hello everybody! Currently in a project for making a light electric motorcycle, I was wondering what were the Pros&Cons of Hub Drive vs Chain Drive. I did find similar topics in the e-bicycles section, but I don't thing the same applies for motorcycles (there's no human power coupled with...

endless-sphere.com

I never read the entire thread but instead believed both were true so now build dual drive e bikes. It incorporates both advantages in the technologies. The thing I know is and learned that in my first few years after about 10 years now

A front hub motor > 500W is problematic. The forks can snap. GOOD torque arms required. GOOD LUCK required .
Why my flagship is a BLDC rear hub motor and I geared the front brush chain to support it up to 32 mph. The BLDC motor is better from take off to top speed.

I'd go for toothed belt rather than chain, less mess, less maintenance, much longer life. The smooth torque & "no bump starts" with electric surely make chain inappropriate?

That was also mentioned in the post chain vs. hub motors. A belt drive train is something I always wanted to do and hopefully some day will. Getting the right parts to do it is a challenge. If I do it I want it to work and from what I have seen so far I am not convinced.


The front chain on my full suspension working properly helps the rear for hills and long time cruising for distance at 30 mph , especially in really hot weather. Greater heat dissipation.. It is the big brother to my 750 watt rear chain and 350W front hub Bafang.

Last but not least. If one system fails the other can get you home without pushing.

It just makes sense.

also.

Since 20" BMX style forks have real beefy front fork dropouts , with torque arms added take 800 to 1,500 watt front hub kits which now days are smart programable., The start is level #1 so don't snap dropouts.

. Then add an 1,800 watt up to 3 kilowatt rear chain. Pedal a little or not. Kick in front. When you want to go real fast hit the left thumb throttle for rear power from rear chain.

Yea. That is where my head is at. When I close my eyes I dream about ebikes and batteries. I got the EV virus for sure


Thanks..

Skyler out.

 

[Skyler]

JAUOPAY 28" 48V2000W Rear Fully Waterproof Electric Bicycle Conversion Kit Wheel | eBay

8 Point Crank speed sensor for pedal assist, can allow you to works with all pedals, including Speedplay and Eggbeaters. Suitable for 28" Bicycle Wheel. 1 x Pedal Assist Sensor. 1 x Rear Hub Motor Wheel.

www.ebay.com

looks too good to be true. It is $100 cheaper than the 1,500W - 700c kit with the 45 amp controller.

That is something I just cant ignore. It could be a black Friday deal. Not sure.

It will probably not be available when I get my $$$ on the third.

If it is then might order it and use the $100 toward more 26650 cells from Battery Hookup.

I would like to hear some opinions on it.

Thanks.

Skyler.

 

[lnanek]

Kind of scammy to sell it as a 2kw kit, then put in the description:
> Restricted to 750 W and 24 mph by default as a road-legal kit

Last time I bought a kit like that, the included components were garbage too. Like the brake levers were these cheap plastic $5 Wuxing ones:

https://www.evcomponents.com/a1-wuxing-e-brake-lever.html

Do they technically work? Yeah, I guess. Felt very unreliable, though, so I swapped them out after one day, myself.

 

[Skyler]

28" 29" 700CC 48V Electric Bicycle Conversion Kit Rear 1000W Ebike Hub Motor | eBay

Power: 1000W or 750W / 48V. The 1000W system requires a 48 Volt battery with a nominal capacity not less than 11.6Ah. Suitable for 28", 29", 700 CC Bicycle Wheel. 48 V 1000 W and 750 W Super Power Brushless Gearless Hub Motor.

www.ebay.com

Yea.. I am looking at the 1,000W kits as well. Two motor kits with a 60V dual motor controller which they make. Then as long as the motors are not junk and can handle 20S - 8P 66V of 26650 LIFEPo4 cells I could reach around 38 mph.

28 mph / 48V = 0.583 * 66V = 38.5 mph.

1,000W / 48V = 20.83 * 66V = 1,375W to each motor.

Total power = 2,750W.

Basically each motor would need < 20 amps to maintain 38 mph cruising speed.

2,750W / 66V = 41.6 amps.

However to maintain 38 mph about 2,100W should do the trick as 40 mph requires about 2,250W when you factor in heat loss.

dong the math 2,100 watts / 66V = 31.81 amps so will go with 32 amps. That is only 16 amps for each motor so should be able to maintain that speed as far as the battery will go with no over heating.

Also with power from the rear motor at the same time it will reduce a lot of stress from the front fork drop outs. I just need a front and rear kit for that price. Hopefully it will be available on the 3rd of December.

If I go with the 66V controller I will have two spare dual mode 1,000W controllers. I have an old 800W - 20" hub motor with some broken rusted spokes. The sensor wires are intact but with a dual mode controller wont even need them. That motor could go on the front of my 20" bike with the 1,800W brushless chain on the rear.

Taking that into consideration I do not really care about brake levers as I have a lot of those just laying around. I never do pedal assist or brake sensors either. All that would matter if I were to get two kits is the two motors then. As long as they can handle about 20 amps each I am good.

I think the 750W limit is just a wire. If unhooked it should have full power. I am not 100% sure though on that.

Right now I am just window shopping I still have about a week to make a decision. I will look at some 60V controllers then.

Electric Bicycle Dual Drive Controller 48V-60V 50A LCD Display Controller Set | eBay

Current: 50A. 1 LCD display with accelerator. Battery plug: XT-60. Speed: 70km/h.

www.ebay.com

There is one. It has a display and accelerator it says.. Is that the same as power levels ??? I could run separate controllers but want a single display with at least 5 power levels when dealing with a 1,000W front motor. If that controller has the power levels then is the right one ??

Looks like a throttle I guess. Here is another one but two controllers with one display and has the right power assist levels. Kind of pricy though.

Amazon.com

If anyone wants to post a link for a cheaper one please feel free.

If I do that it will be a two to 3 month project to stay on a budget. That is ok though as will take me some time to build a 20S - 8P - LIFEPO4 pack anyway.

In fact I might just do both. I could get the 1,509W or 2,000W kit for the Giant for Christmas and the two motors for my other 700c ebike in January or February.

I also have a 26" Haro V3 mountain bike that could use one or two motors. I could do a 1,000W motor up front and an 1,800W brushless chain for the rear. It would bring me up to about 10 e bikes though which is kind of crazy.

Thanks for posting


Skyler.

 

[Skyler]

yea. I messed up.

I should have realized that black Friday deals would happen on ebay. I did not have the $$$ to order a hub motor kit.
I sent a message to the seller of the Jayuopay 2,000 watt kit.



Looks like only 1 rear kit left. They have a front kit by another seller for $165 but not doing that. Those kits are > $300 full price so not ordering it unless there is a rear kit available Friday < $200 but seriously doubt it.

I am not at all happy about it. I guess I will order a 56T 9 hole spoke sprocket kit for the 20" Diamondback Cobra 20. I am reinforcing the rear rack with bed frame and flat steel for the 3,000 watt brushless motor.

I wont be running it at 60V though so total power will be

3,000W / 60V = 50 * 52.8V (16S - LIFEPO4) = 2,640W.




Looks like perfect gearing for > 2,600W. Plenty of torque for hills and can still reach 40+ mph.

That is if the motor specs. are as advertised. I can only hope so. I ordered the 3 kilowatt motor over 2 years ago I think. I do not see that exact motor any more. like it.

There is no 60V - 3 kilowatt motors any more at 4,800 rpm. Just 72V 3 kilowatt motors rated at 5,600 rpm. They have 4,300 rpm 2 kilowatt motors and 1,800W motors at 4,800 rpm.

I have waited almost three years for this build and it is a compromise.. I really wanted to go with 20S 66V LIFEPO4. However it would raise the rpms. > 5,000 and I would need a very large and expensive custom wheel sprocket.

Also I would need a charger close to 70V to charge 20S. I already own a 54.6V - 15 amp charger sitting around collecting dust. I paid around $130 for it and is ideal for portable charging when > 20 miles from home.

In my experience charging used 26650 cells at 3.6V per cell is problematic. When the cells are > 85% charged some can sky rocket > 4V which is not good for the life of the cells.

I have found that charging close to 3.4 per cell actually helps equalize the pack. I have been doing that for about a year with my 13S LIFEPO4 pack at 43.8V

43.8V / 13 = 3.369V. It is slightly under charged but all cells are very close to 80% and rarely need balancing.

54.6V / 16 = 3.4125V so about 3.4V per cell which is close to 85% I think. That works for me and can get the cells which are about 80% capacity very cheap from Battery Clearinghouse

This is still plan B on Friday when my $$$ comes in. Plan A is a Jayuopay 2,000W rear hub kit but I refuse to pay a penny over $200 including tax and shipping.. I will wait until the next black Friday if I have to. I could have got it for $139 with free shipping.

I saw one on Aliexpress for $125 but around $100 to ship and takes about 5 weeks. I am not interested. The e bay kits ship < 14 days.

I could go with 55V of LTO and add a 36V - 1,000W front brush chain. It would raise total power to > 4 kilowatts and enable 53 mph gearing. I could order the 56T sprocket in December and 9T motor sprocket for 40+ mph gearing.

Then In January order the 36V - 1,000W brush for the front and put the 44T in the rear and 56T up front for 53 mph gearing. For both motors. That will give me time to get used to 40 mph first before going up to 53 mph. So far the fastest I have gone is 33.5 mph.

Thanks.

Skyler out.

 

[calab]

In my experience charging used 26650 cells at 3.6V per cell is problematic. When the cells are > 85% charged some can sky rocket > 4V which is not good for the life of the cells.

What is the voltage difference within the pack?
If you have whole groups charged to 3.60v, whats the "sky rocketed" voltage at?
- Might be the solder joints of the 26650 cans adding resistance, also the heat damage to 26650 cells, any bad connector joints, wire quality, wire resistance. Varying from one group to another.

 

[Skyler]

What is the voltage difference within the pack?
If you have whole groups charged to 3.60v, whats the "sky rocketed" voltage at?
- Might be the solder joints of the 26650 cans adding resistance, also the heat damage to 26650 cells, any bad connector joints, wire quality, wire resistance. Varying from one group to another.

The cells in those packs had tabs. I did not solder directly to the cells. Sometimes I charge at 3.6V with a 6S LiPo balancer or bulk charge two or more packs in series with a 12S or 15S dedicated LIFEPO4 charger for 3.35V - 75% or 3.458V - 85%.

My point was if balanced to 75 to 85% of full charge they will self balance to an extent. Once balanced they tend to stay balanced when bulk charging two or three packs. If they are or become unbalanced when charging at 100% you get cells > 4V and other cells normal.

All cells are externally balanced with either a 6S or 7S balancer. I have two of each. I can also balance each pack on a 6S - LiPo charger but only up to 6S.

7S - LIFEPO4 is = to 6S - LiPo so 4.2V * 6 = 25.2V / 7 = 2.6V. It takes them about 24 hours to balance especially the 7S pack as have to balance externally with my 7S external balancer. I also have active balancers I can use when necessary.

Once balanced I can run two 5S with the 3S Headway and don't need to balance or charge separately for 6 to 8 cycles and can charge with my 10 amp 43.6V dedicated 12S LIFEPO4 charger but when charging 13S I get

43.6V / 13 = 3.35V and all cells rest at 60 to 70% but if I top off the charge before running get 5 to 10% more. I rarely need to even hook up the external balancer. I can run them about 8 to 10 miles.

Now if I hook up the two 5S packs to the 7S for 17S LIFEPO4 then when I get home I need to charge both 5S , the 7S and 3S Headway separately before switching back to 13S. If I don't then the two 5S packs will be like 90% and the 3S Headway at 70%..

I will get closer to 85% for 16S with my 54.6V - 15 amp charger as 54.6V / 16 = 3. 4125V. For 17S I need to charge three packs separately. or order a 58.8V charger. 58.8 / 17 = 3.458V.

Those 13S LIFEPO4 packs in the pictures were charged at 43.6V - 3.35V to 70 to 75% a couple days ago and have not ran them. There is self discharge as about 60% now. looking at 50 to 60 % of their rated capacity compared to brand new..

The Lishen LTO cells were charged at 2.8V a couple hours ago. Back when I built the LTOs some cells I never used and were all at different voltages. I had two external and two active balancers hooked up for two days on that 5S in the picture to get them like that. look at them now.

It is a 10S pack but needs two 5S balancers and charges with a 2 amp 28V charger. The two 6S packs charge n series with a 2 amp 33.1V charger.

They have like 10 times the cycles as LIFEPO4 cells.. I ran them 8 miles about two weeks ago.. they are 50 pounds for 55V so ridiculously heavy.

The solution is to build more LIFEPO4 packs which I am doing over at my other post reverse polarity in battery technology.
My new packs are solderless and not spot welded either. I can now build them with small nuts and bolts. , thin 3/4" strips of plastic or wood about 3/8" thick , hot glue , tape and zip ties.

It takes awhile but not much more money than nickel strip. Way cheaper than solder at $35 a roll for 60 / 40. The thing that is nice is when the cells are ready to recycle they can be rebuilt with newer cells for the price of a large pack of zip ties , like $5.

Come over and check it out. If you could 3D print plastic strips with threaded holes you could sell kits like cold beer on the fourth of July. Almost anyone could put them together with detailed instructions or a DIY video.

Thanks.

Skyler.

 

[Skyler]

OK.

Anyone who reads my posts I have a question.

I have been building e bikes almost 10 years but only recently , like a few months ago got a hub kit with a 900 module.

Five assist levels supposed to be for pedal but works like gears with your throttle.

I have a 1,800 watt and 3,000 watt brushless chain drive.

I built dual Bafang hubs with single throttle and dual chain single throttle.

I never experienced this new type of controller I guess is common now.

My question is if there is no difference in a brushless hub motor controller vs. a chain drive brushless controller. ??

I like power assist levels and looking to use with chain drive with thumb throttle. ???

If you want to scratch your head , what about a dual drive brushless controller running a hub and chain with the 900 module ???

I had sensor less Greentime controller, Do dual drive and sensor less controllers exist that work with 900 module ????

Scratch that head a little more and imagine a dual drive / sensor less controller that works with the sensor wires on the chain side and sensor less for the hub side or vise versa.

What is out there and what can we event or expect ??

Check out this video. youtube. Copy & paste if link fails.

28,000 watt E-bike with Delta/Wye switching​

I looked it up.

Saw it years ago.

Please let me know.

Thanks.

Skyler.

 

[Skyler]

yea. It said sold out yesterday so I sent the seller a message asking when they would get more in and today there was 1 left.

Looks like I will be going 43 mph soon.

Thanks.

Skyler.

 

[Skyler]

Do measure the stator and count the laminations for us, it'd make for a good review. If 35h is generally recognized as 1500w, is it then 40h for the 2kw?

I would have to take it apart to measure the stator ??? I remember taking apart my first direct drive hub motor. It was not easy.

I will be shooting an onboard video though riding it with a power level meter which measures output in watts , amps and voltage.

Also I will have a GPS speedometer app. as well as sunglass camera which I need a data card to record.

I got < 20 miles on my 1,500W 30 amp kit I bought back in the spring. The seller said this kit has is a 45 amp controller. Why I ordered it. I will need to take it on a back road to hit 43 mph or whatever top speed is. 40+ mph will be kind of scary.

I doubt I will maintain that kind of speed any length of time. If I were to hit a rabbit or squirrel going that fast it could flip the bike.. A deer would guarantee a ride in the meat wagon. It could be a fatality. I will need a helmet for sure.

The true test for power will be its hill climbing ability. If I go up a steep hill and it don't overheat that is a good sign.

Thanks.

Skyler out.