Which Hub motor and controller for a 96v build?

[gobi]

I see a bunch of 96v pouch cell units that came out of vehicles,
I found a cargo bike locally with a bad motor
Rear motor with 26 inch wheel and 135 mm width at drop out.

Working it backwards, which hub will work with 96v?

>>> Direct Drive hub
cuz geared with clutch will probably fail? how about clutchless geared?

Which controller will work with the above?

The cargo bike weighs around 70lbs, all steel and has skinny wheels.

 

[E-HP]

Working it backwards, which hub will work with 96v?

You need to specify the current/power along with the voltage, since the motor is rated on power. If it's direct drive, it will work, as long as you keep the power within the motor's rating.

If that's 96V nominal (109V fully charged), then you're getting into the world of very expensive controllers. Is there a reason for going that high?

 

[gobi]

Working it backwards, which hub will work with 96v?

You need to specify the current/power along with the voltage, since the motor is rated on power. If it's direct drive, it will work, as long as you keep the power within the motor's rating.

If that's 96V nominal (109V fully charged), then you're getting into the world of very expensive controllers. Is there a reason for going that high?

The hub motor is bad, I will need a new one,

I like Eco builds, no reason to go that high other than pre-built automotive packs at 96 volt out there.
No 96 is my max volts, it is 24 pack and I charge my Li-ion to 4v max, which makes it 96v.

Power = not sure, I am not looking anything crazy, just cruise around on a heavy cargo bike.

So I am seeking a HUB and a Controller suggestion pls.

 

[ebike4healthandfitness]

The votol controllers starting with the EM50 will go that high:

http://votol.net/en-us/controller.html

https://www.qsmotor.com/product/votol-controller/

(Some of the votol controllers will go to 108v, including to the EM50)

 

[999zip999]

Wait a second let's see your bike first what motor will it had and that will help you decide if you want 52v-72v or 96v. 96v high prlce controller, high price charger and at less a mxus 3,000 or QS 5,000 is best and heavy. So more info please.

 

[gobi]

Wait a second let's see your bike first what motor will it had and that will help you decide if you want 52v-72v or 96v. 96v high prlce controller, high price charger and at less a mxus 3,000 or QS 5,000 is best and heavy. So more info please.

No bike yet, it is a Rad Power RadRunner older model with 26inch bike, came with a 750w motor, Rear dropout 135mm

I have a bunch of 36v batts that I can connect in series and make 72v, that might be the ticket.

Looking at BH, I see a bunch of auto cells, pouch, so they are compact, 24s, 20s, Hence the question.

I am guessing the controller is the bottle limiting factor,

Are both of these hubs direct drive motors? the Mxus 3000 and QS 5000

 

[999zip999]

26in mxus 3,000 v3 4t .But 142mm drop ? Could fit ? Lots of room for Battery if I see right model ? 96v big money heavy.

 

[gobi]

26in mxus 3,000 v3 4t .But 142mm drop ? Could fit ? Lots of room for Battery if I see right model ? 96v big money heavy.

Danke,

where can I find a mxus 3k v3 4t?
which controller goes with it.

The main attraction is the cargo bike with a beefy rear,
the batts weigh around 40lbs, they are pretty reasonable, $120 to 140/kw, they are pouch cells units, comes off EV vehicles, I am guessing these are the ones off the recall which are catching fire

 

[999zip999]

Link. What Battery ??? Pic ? something !
Mxus and get there controller maybe have a charger ?

 

[E-HP]

No bike yet, it is a Rad Power RadRunner older model with 26inch bike, came with a 750w motor, Rear dropout 135mm

I don't recall the Radrunner ever coming in 26", and it's not a cargo bike. I has a rack that's part of the frame, but not a cargo bike in the way most people would think of one. Maybe the Radwagon?

If it's the wagon, then I'd be really careful about the motor you choose. The motors may say 135mm, but a lot of times, that's without the washer that's on the inner side of the dropouts, so you have to spread the dropouts a little. I don't see any way you'd be able to spread the dropouts on the Radwagon. The whole rear end has all kinds of trusses and cross braces.

 

[999zip999]

I don't know as I got mine when someone had a bulk buy . One guy made out ok. The second guy got burned and burned people just bare hubs and laced myself. That's a learning experience building a rim around a 20 lb motor. Do you have disc brakes cable or hydraulic ? all questions must be asked all questions must be answered before you buy yes before you buy maybe someone else on the farm has had a good luck with a kit I haven't I had to send one back. But the kit was from ebikeling and was a piece of junk add scented back because they are from USA. lucky yes you need luck
So good luck.

 

[gobi]

Link. What Battery ??? Pic ? something !
Mxus and get there controller maybe have a charger ?

they have a lot of different voltages, they have been testing confirming capacity. so you pay a little more and you are not rolling the die like at jag32
https://batteryhookup.com/

I don't have a 96v charger right now, I do have a drok dc boost charger/ps (el cheapo works well)
But I plan on using 2 meanwells in series.

 

[gobi]

I don't know as I got mine when someone had a bull buy . One guy made out ok. The second guy got burned and burned people just bare hubs and laced myself. That's a learning experience building a rim around a 20 lb motor. Do you have disc brakes cable or hydraulic ? all questions must be asked all questions must be answered before you buy yes before you buy maybe someone else on the farm has had a good luck with a kit I haven't I had to send one back. But the kit was from ebikeling and was a piece of junk add scented back because they are from USA. lucky yes you need luck
So good luck.

No bike yet, it is a Rad Power RadRunner older model with 26inch bike, came with a 750w motor, Rear dropout 135mm

I don't recall the Radrunner ever coming in 26", and it's not a cargo bike. I has a rack that's part of the frame, but not a cargo bike in the way most people would think of one. Maybe the Radwagon?

If it's the wagon, then I'd be really careful about the motor you choose. The motors may say 135mm, but a lot of times, that's without the washer that's on the inner side of the dropouts, so you have to spread the dropouts a little. I don't see any way you'd be able to spread the dropouts on the Radwagon. The whole rear end has all kinds of trusses and cross braces.

I hear you guys,
I stand corrected it is a Radwagon,
the bike has been changed a bunch, he is too far away from me to take a peek, the hub motor on it now is shot, so I am probably looking at new hub, new controller, new display, new....


but I really like the high voltage pouch cells packs off EV vehicles. the high volts caught my attention. It is a possibility to use 96v economically?
if not, then bump down to 76v?

Some of the EV packs has Ford sticker on it. Will there be much useful life in these used packs?
They also have NEW SPIM08HP cells,

 

[999zip999]

I like battery hookup. I bought a case of the spaim08 of 36 new plus 4 used for about 240 shipped. i think. a good cell I made a pack of 20s and I get 7.5 ah no bms just balance wires and bulk charge 3 meanwells @ 84v 15amp. There are Big and next pack 14s.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=106666#p1562110
Use some cardboard and duct tape and make a box the size and the measurements of your completed battery pack and then see where it might fit maybe as a one-piece or two-piece pack.

 

[99t4]

I recognize that bike from somewhere. Remember the color scheme and uncommon camo tires. IIRC it had been crashed and bent up the forks pretty badly, hence the mismatched color (replacement) forks currently. You probably got a good deal.

I'd put a front hubmotor on it. The beefy steel front forks are perfect for that.

 

[Chalo]

Working it backwards, which hub will work with 96v?[

Leaf Bike 1500W 11 turn. I'd use a front hub to preserve the integrity of the rear wheel, but it would be feasible to go either way.

Which controller will work with the above?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/142990552133

 

[gobi]

I recognize that bike from somewhere. Remember the color scheme and uncommon camo tires. IIRC it had been crashed and bent up the forks pretty badly, hence the mismatched color (replacement) forks currently. You probably got a good deal.

I'd put a front hubmotor on it. The beefy steel front forks are perfect for that.

oh, frontend crash, hmm, I think I will pass
Gotcha, frontend install is simpler, if get one, I will add a front rack and keep everything there. Thanks

 

[gobi]

I like battery hookup. I bought a case of the spaim08 of 36 new plus 4 used for about 240 shipped. i think. a good cell I made a pack of 20s and I get 7.5 ah no bms just balance wires and bulk charge 3 meanwells @ 84v 15amp. There are Big and next pack 14s.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=106666#p1562110
Use some cardboard and duct tape and make a box the size and the measurements of your completed battery pack and then see where it might fit maybe as a one-piece or two-piece pack.

Thanks, I am looking at pouch cells for a smaller build, I bought those pinch crimp things someone mentioned on a thread here from mouser.

If I do 72v, I will do 2 10s packs and put them in series.
Reading your thread now. Danke!

 

[gobi]

Working it backwards, which hub will work with 96v?[

Leaf Bike 1500W 11 turn. I'd use a front hub to preserve the integrity of the rear wheel, but it would be feasible to go either way.

Which controller will work with the above?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/142990552133

The controller does not have regen, is it something I can hack on the controller?
I am 210 lb and bike will be 70 lb, will I be gaining a bunch with regen?

I try to drift and slow down as much as possible, do this while driving vehicles too.
Thanks for the links!

 

[Chalo]

Regen braking doesn't add much range even in the best case, and it increases both the demands of your torque arms and the risk of loosening axle nuts and spinning the axle. I don't think it's worth it and I never use it.

Tiny axle flats are a miserably inadequate way of restraining motor torque as it is. Requiring them to deal with reversing torque borders on foolhardy IMO.

 

[gobi]

Ok makes sense, is there any value of the braking aspect of regen, my kids scooter has an e-brake feature, I am guessing it uses regen.

That controller is a modified sine wave controller possibly?

 

[E-HP]

Ok makes sense, is there any value of the braking aspect of regen, my kids scooter has an e-brake feature, I am guessing it uses regen.

Yes, especially with a big cargo bike. I only use my brakes to come to stop, after slowing the 5mph with regen; or when going down a very steep hill. Haven't changed pads in a couple of years.

Also, with that amount of mass, you can see decent benefits if you do a lot of stop and go, even on flat ground. You can ride on flat ground only using the power necessary to overcome wind and rolling resistance, which is very little power if you're not riding fast. It's the change in velocity that takes (or gives back) the most power, so if you have a lot of stop and go, you could deplete your battery quickly, depending on how you accelerate from a stop. Regen captures a decent amount back to your battery in stop and go situations, that would normally be only wasted heat from braking.

 

[999zip999]

If hilly can melt a motor. As in regen makes heat. But the important part is two 2 good torque arms and Norlock washers . Good torque arms maybe homemade ? 4in grinder and a drill. Clamping.
Clue.

 

[ebike4healthandfitness]

What really hurts Regen is hub motors that are inefficient when climbing hills. Take for example a really steep hill (that when climbed results in a good amount of potential energy stored up)...but the hub motor is forced into a speed range that is only 40% efficient when climbing. Right off the bat the rider is losing 60 watts out of every 100 watts to heat. This 60 watts can't be claimed by regeneration.... only the 40 watts has any chance to be claimed. Trouble is when going down the hill how efficient will the motor be via Regen after aerodynamic drag and rolling resistance take their cut of that 40 watts? If it suffers from poor low speed efficiency even if a person goes slow (to minize aerodynamic drag stealing part of the potential energy) the regen won't be that good.

Do you see where this is going? Getting a good Regen % is almost impossible even in hilly terrain if the motor has poor low speed efficiency.

 

[E-HP]

What really hurts Regen is hub motors that are inefficient when climbing hills. Take for example a really steep hill (that when climbed results in a good amount of potential energy stored up)...but the hub motor is forced into a speed range that is only 40% efficient when climbing. Right off the bat the rider is losing 60 watts out of every 100 watts to heat. This 60 watts can't be claimed by regeneration.... only the 40 watts has any chance to be claimed. Trouble is when going down the hill how efficient will the motor be via Regen after aerodynamic drag and rolling resistance take their cut of that 40 watts? If it suffers from poor low speed efficiency even if a person goes slow (to minize aerodynamic drag) the regen won't be good.

Do you see where this is going? Getting a good Regen % is almost impossible even in hilly terrain if the motor has poor low speed efficiency.

Do you speak from experience or from reading?