Why don't you pedal your ebike?

Joined
May 19, 2012
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I see a lot of people mention how they don't like to pedal their ebikes.

For those of you for whom this is true please explain if you want to.

If you don't want to discuss this that is fine as well.
 
I only don’t pedal when my chain falls off. It’s happened a couple of times, and I’m really glad I have a rear hub motor. I’m able to continue on my commute to work and fix the chain at my convenience (aka, at a red light).

When I usually see someone not pedaling, they are a teenager or they are riding one of those e-motos of the SurRon type. Or BOTH!
 
When I usually see someone not pedaling, they are a teenager

Let me guess 20" fat tire ebike? With a taco mini bike frame (e.g. Super 73) and thus fixed seat height? This accompanied by the obligatory wide q factor crank needed for derailleur gears and the wide tires.

Yeah, I see that too. Seems like a major waste of resources in so many ways.
 
I pedal some of my bikes and not others. Partly it is due to bike design, I've built my bikes to be very good at specific tasks and that sometimes means making them not easily pedal-able. So I have two bikes that can't really be pedaled and two that pedal very nicely. One is geared so low to the cranks you can't pedal at more than a snails pace, the other I don't even have a chain on it, the battery is in the way of pedaling and it's kind of pointless and probably dangerous to try to pedal at 40mph. The other two, one has a OSF TSDZ2 and pedals very nice, and one is a fatbike with a perfectly normal gear train although with a very small front chainring to provide enough gearing for deep snow.

Honestly I find this whole discussion more nuanced and complicated than most are willing think about it. The idea that every ebike or whatever you want to call it, two wheeled transport with electric motor, should be able to be pedaled and should be is silly. I have no problem with people riding around on electric mopeds and don't think they should be pedaling, those bikes are doing what they are designed to do perfectly and there is no need to make them worse at that so they can be pedaled when the people using them have no interest or use in doing so. Meanwhile I also think that almost all low to mid powered ebikes should at least have the option of a torque sensing BB and it's a shame they aren't because I think for many applications and people that would make the bike better for them by making pedaling more natural.

Pedaling or not depends entirely on the application not some moral judgment gatekeeping. Similarly I think this idea that we're somehow going to put the genie back in the bottle and magically get rid of all these not a "traditional bike" ebikes is silly. Yes I think we have a ways to go to figure out how all these vehicles can interact with society in general and I don't like irresponsible self centered jerks behaving badly with two wheeled electric vehicles but it's the humans fault and many humans also ride all manner of vehicles in perfectly reasonable and responsible ways and some of those don't involve pedaling. And I think shaming ebikes, eletric mopeds and not pedaling as I've seen too often online is only making the situation worse.

As it pertains to this thread, you started asking the question is a very fair unbiased way and then immedately starting making fun of people, and I'll be honest the super73 moped style is not my cup of tea but I'm not going to look down on anybody who is into them because they aren't real ebikes or whatever made up classification we're talking about this week, I'm won't even shame them for riding dangerously as long as the danger is contained to themselves and not others.

Why do I have bikes that I don't pedal, well the bike I ride the most just because it makes it worse when I do. It's a bike I ride off road, I don't enjoy pedaling on the terrain I'm riding, trying to pedal makes the bike and me worse at it, less capabile and less fun which is the point.
 
As it pertains to this thread, you started asking the question is a very fair unbiased way and then immedately starting making fun of people, and I'll be honest the super73 moped style is not my cup of tea but I'm not going to look down on anybody who is into them because they aren't real ebikes or whatever made up classification we're talking about this week, I'm won't even shame them for riding dangerously as long as the danger is contained to themselves and not others.

You misunderstand. I am not making fun of the people who ride 20" fat ebikes.

I am saying the drive train arrangement on that particular type of is a waste of resources. Fat tire + derailleur + fixed low seat height is a waste of resources because it results in something that is not useful and merely ornamental. A better arrangement that uses less material and that is actually more useful for someone very young would be single speed. This because single speed with fat tire can get by with a much narrower q factor. Kids can't pedal 200mm or 230mm q factor on a slammed seat well if at all.

So yeah, while 7 or more gears sounds better on paper..... but if a person can't pedal it there might as well be zero gears.
 
Not a waste if the fatbike still provides transportation at a fraction of the cost of alternatives. ( it does )

Sad that someone would deprive themselves of health-supporting physical activity when given a prime opportunity to benefit from it, however...

Humans are ~20% efficient food to mechanical energy engines, and the modern day food supply produces tons of hydrocarbon emissions per calorie.. even worse is that when vegetables rot in landfills, they produce a decent amount of methane too.

car-emissions_food-waste-life-cycle.jpg

Unless you are eating out of your backyard farm exclusively, or you've figured out how to metabolize hydrocarbons, pedaling is going to produce more net carbon emissions than your worst case fossil fueled scenario

coal-powered-M.jpg

Take notice also on the costs of a 40 mile bike ride at medium human speed ( ~13mph )
- For most people this will expend 2000 calories, which almost doubles food intake for the day.. will cost something like $4-$15 worth of food.. more expensive than gasoline for a car.. and we traveled at a fraction of the speed!
- Running an electric bike at human bike speed won't even use a kilowatt hour of electricity, but a kilowatt hour costs $0.10-$0.3 depending on where you live.

From this website:
1733241091870.png

^-- this doesn't mention landfill emissions, the fact that ~99% of fertilizer comes from petroleum, offgassing of rice paddies, etc. It's a deep rabbit hole!

I personally pedal for the benefit of my physical and mental health despite these inconvenient truths about the human engine.
 
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You misunderstand. I am not making fun of the people who ride 20" fat ebikes.

I am saying the drive train arrangement on that particular type of is a waste of resources. Fat tire + derailleur + fixed low seat height is a waste of resources because it results in something that is not useful and merely ornamental. A better arrangement that uses less material and that is actually more useful for someone very young would be single speed. This because single speed with fat tire can get by with a much narrower q factor. Kids can't pedal 200mm or 230mm q factor on a slammed seat well if at all.

So yeah, while 7 or more gears sounds better on paper..... but if a person can't pedal it there might as well be zero gears.
I mean I totally agree with you but not with the tone, and admittedly your tone there was not that bad, far better than many I've seen on this very site but still instead of calling someone's bike a waste of resources which I think you can see how that could be taken negatively when you could have just said what you just did in a positive manner, like this style of bike would be better if made like this.

Maybe I'm just a little fed up with some of the negativity and side taking that crops up everywhere ebikes are talked about it seems. I understand many on this forum have strong opinions and I think that is a good thing but sometimes those opinions can be expressed harshly and repetitively (I think the repetitive thing is worse) which causes people to either not stay once they come here or leave even if they've been here awhile.
 
Unless you are eating out of your backyard farm exclusively, or you've figured out how to metabolize hydrocarbons, pedaling is going to produce more net carbon emissions than your worst case fossil fueled scenario
Take notice also on the costs of a 40 mile bike ride at medium human speed ( ~13mph )
- For most people this will expend 2000 calories, which almost doubles food intake for the day.. will cost something like $4-$15 worth of food.. more expensive than gasoline for a car.. and we traveled at a fraction of the speed!
Just my two cents, but I've never liked these numbers and the argument they imply. Let's assume that they're factually correct (frankly, I have no reason to believe that the numbers are sourced incorrectly or made up, I just don't want to have the argument about the veracity of the statistics). It doesn't take into account that for the most part, people are going to be eating food every day anyway. It doesn't take into account that many people choose to incorporate acoustic biking into their commute as part of their fitness or well-being regime. Or perhaps that some people are consuming an excess of calories anyway, and incorporating cycling into their day to use said excess energy wouldn't add to their greenhouse gas emissions. Or it doesn't consider your example of a 40-mile commute of 2000 calories every day. Commuting that far on a regular basis is not an average activity.

Or it doesn't take account the CO2 cost of producing the batteries, motor, and controller needed to run that electric bike. Even if said cost is low for an e-bike as compared to an automobile, the cost is going to be way higher than the cost of an acoustic bike by itself. How many miles do you need to ride on an ebike to offset the greenhouse gases produced by making said ebike?

Or it doesn't take account the individual monetary cost to someone buying an acoustic bike versus an ebike; an ebike is gonna be more expensive. Or the more complicated repairs that an ebike might incur; how many posts in the past week have we seen from a first-time poster who bought an ebike that no longer works and they want help fixing it? If it was a regular bike, their local bike mechanic would be able to fix any issue that comes up. Not so with an ebike, as we see every single day on this forum.

I really do like this tidbit, that electric bikes are more efficient that pedaling a bike, its probably fairly accurate in a lot of ways. I just want to make sure that the underlying message isn't that ebikes are always going to be better than regular bikes.
 
It doesn't take into account that for the most part, people are going to be eating food every day anyway.

Or the fact in America obesity is an epidemic and thus many already have too much energy on their bodies in the form of fat.

But because of muscle atrophy and blood vessel atrophy they can never mobilize that fat. Therefore without some type of physical activity they descend into a multitude of health problems including diabetes.
 
Look into our food supply, you'll be shocked. I'm more likely to be underestimating the carbon cost of fueling human miles.
I also don't include the fact that humans expel more CO2 vs at rest.

Yeah, i'm only taking into account the account the cost of propelling the vehicle, it would require numbers we don't have yet to make an accurate comparison of entire lifecycle costs of pedaling versus not.

Not concerned with winning an argument on the internet here, my overall point is that from an efficiency/resource/carbon perspective, the human engine is quite unimpressive.
 
calling someone's bike a waste of resources

I'm not against 20" fat bikes. I've even written that I would use 16" fat tires in this thread here:


It's the drivetrain that is a major waste in so many ways (including forcing the battery to drain faster and also wear out faster). Why put a shifter, cable, derailleur and rear cogs on a bike only to make its cranks unusable for a young person?

Much better to put a pedal generator, single speed or use a jackshaft system to drive the derailleur gears.
 
Look into our food supply, you'll be shocked. I'm more likely to be underestimating the carbon cost of fueling human miles.
I also don't include the fact that humans expel more CO2 vs at rest.

Burning fat releases less CO2 per calorie than burning carbohydrate per calorie....so even if caloric expenditure increases for the day total CO2 released may not.
 
I don't peddle my ebike... BC it doesn't have peddles, lol.
I custom built a frame using chopped bicycle parts, and used ebike components I threw together for a kit, to make a cheap version of an electric motorcycle.
True, the e motorcycle gets less range and a lower top end BC of the lack of assistance, but also BC it's welded of metal rather than the aluminum mtn bike I had the kit on previously. ...but all n all, in regards to as what I was going for, it has worked out fine, being there's no room for a crank below or out front for how low the bike sits to begin with.
I don't have any pics of it, but if anyone is curious to see my Frankenstein's monster, I'll add one
 
True, the e motorcycle gets less range and a lower top end BC of the lack of assistance

Once a cycle gets to a certain speed having pedals and spinning them at 90 rpm etc can actually ironically reduce range. This because (without some kind of fairing) the added drag from the pedals at high speed outweighs the amount of assistance they offer (i.e. watts from added drag is greater than watts of assistance).
 
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I knew there was a lot more "math and science" to this stuff than I am capable of ____(place proper word here)___ .
Which is what turned me on to Endless-Sphere.com in the first place.
A big THANKS to everyone with the patience to teach a dummy like me a thing or two 👍
 
I don’t pedal because chainring is too small and programming wrong on the current Bbs02 I’m using. The programming is too aggressive to keep up with pedalling and also the natural spin speed of the motor isn’t so conducive to actually pedalling. I absolutely prefer to pedal (a lot) but torque sensing makes it much more enjoyable and having the right gear reduction ratio is very important imo
 
It'd be clowning w/bbs02b at 30A and the chainring i have on it
(+not willing to give up on speed any more, than i already have).
 
Once a cycle gets to a certain speed having pedals and spinning them at 90 rpm etc can actually ironically reduce range. This because (without some kind of fairing) the added drag from the pedals at high speed outweighs the amount of assistance they offer (i.e. watts from added drag is greater than watts of assistance).
I presume you have some study you can refer to that "proves" this but my own real life experimentation disproves this.

On flat terrain, low wind day, I set my "cruise control" at 22 MPH. Pedaling moderately hard (at a comfortably sustainable pace, nowhere near HIIT levels) at approx. 90 RPM. When I stop pedaling, the assist wattage increases on the display, to maintain the set speed. Restarting pedaling and the wattage goes back down. Does this not disprove your statement that pedaling adds more drag than assistance? DH FS MTB, near upright posture, no fairings.

I challenge you to perform a similar experiment and report your results.
 
On flat terrain, low wind day, I set my "cruise control" at 22 MPH. Pedaling moderately hard (at a comfortably sustainable pace, nowhere near HIIT levels) at approx. 90 RPM. When I stop pedaling, the assist wattage increases on the display, to maintain the set speed. Restarting pedaling and the wattage goes back down. Does this not disprove your statement that pedaling adds more drag than assistance? DH FS MTB, near upright posture, no fairings.

22 mph is not e-motorcycle speeds.

Of course, pedaling at a normal bicycle speed is going to be productive.
 
But because of muscle atrophy and blood vessel atrophy they can never mobilize that fat. Therefore without some type of physical activity they descend into a multitude of health problems including diabetes.
My pedaling is for mild exercise or just ghost pedaling for muscle toning (being 80 yrs). Wouldn't want an etrike with 7-speed derailleur (just one speed works fine). Can get all the exercise As-Is with my Liberty Trike (750w front hub going on 7,562 miles).
 
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