Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

[Hillhater]

Your own words in this very thread:

Power supply, and electricity generation are totally entwined with Politics,
It is impossible to understand one without rubbing up against the other.
But the point was....Biden deliberately shut down one oil pipeline for popularity,...then within days cried “Foul” when another party shut down a similar oil pipeline. .

Perhaps avoid attacking people for what you yourself do? Your political agenda here has been clear from day one, and you embed it in many of your posts.

You seem to have problems differentiating between political belief and statement of factual events !
i have no interest in US politics…other than as a source of entertainment currently !
….So, tell me, just what do you see so clearly as my “political agenda” ,… ?

 

[Hillhater]

It seems to have everything to do with your denial of reality

?.. what version of reality would that be ?
..the reality of significantly increasing electricity price with the introduction of “renewables/unreliables”?
..the reality of the impossibility ,technically and financially, to replace Fossil fuel generation based utility supply with Wind/Solar. ?
..the reality that dicking around with man made CO2 emissions will never alter any climate changes that the planet may undergo ?

…..what is the reality that you think i am denying ?

 

[Chalo]

?.. what version of reality would that be ?
..the reality of significantly increasing electricity price with the introduction of “renewables/unreliables”?
..the reality of the impossibility ,technically and financially, to replace Fossil fuel generation based utility supply with Wind/Solar. ?
..the reality that dicking around with man made CO2 emissions will never alter any climate changes that the planet may undergo ?

…..what is the reality that you think i am denying ?

Yes, all of that and more.

 

[Hillhater]

Yes, all of that and more.

??… so you are saying i am denying the reality of increasing electrity costs ..?
…or that Wind and solar can never replace fossil fuels……?
..etc etc
… you are posting without thinking !

 

[Chalo]

??… so you are saying i am denying the reality of increasing electrity costs ..?
…or that Wind and solar can never replace fossil fuels……?
..etc etc
… you are posting without thinking !

All electricity costs are increasing relative to incomes. True even for black energy that signs us all up for infinite future suffering.

Wind and solar plus storage can easily replace toxic energy. Add efficiency/conservation and a diversion away from the gratuitous consumption economy and we're all set. As long as we don't poison and bake ourselves to oblivion.

 

[Hillhater]

All electricity costs are increasing relative to incomes. True even for black energy that signs us all up for infinite future suffering.

Wind and solar plus storage can easily replace toxic energy. Add efficiency/conservation and a diversion away from the gratuitous consumption economy and we're all set. As long as we don't poison and bake ourselves to oblivion.

As i said previously……you are posting without thinking !

 

[Ianhill]

The elites, royalist and alike aint half screwed this world financially, ive analysed the the past and the answer is britian started this of shore trust schemes in tax havens along with more wealthy interests it creates it lobby the goverment even harder.

Most politicians know they will be serving the corporation of london not Britain or its people.

That without the big oil lie, so the truth is we are fuked and the rich are scrambling to make wealth to pass on knowing theres hard times by the turn of this century with food production.

Why is africa always gonna be in debt becuase it owes it to us through tax havens we wint drop it and it grows the money we raise and send doesnt cover the interest ffs people wake up we are the iron to they bridge its all useless without people.

 

[TheBeastie]

So Nikola Motor Company is not only crushing Tesla with its battery-only electric trucks, but NMC has released their fuel-cell trucks as well now...
One of the most remarkable things I have seen in electric vehicle news was how many clueless lucky "algo privileged" YouTubers kept saying Nikola Motor Company is nothing but "a massive scam" simply bcos their CEO released a video if their electric truck rolling down a hill with no power and saying it's going to be released soon in months etc.
Technically that is a FAR smaller lie than the 10+ Elon Musk promises where Elon Musk has promised everything from the Roaster to self-driving taxis etc will be out 5+ years ago with still nothing released at all.
People just don't get how much they allow themselves to get brainwashed and just parrot each others words without thinking about it at all.

 

[Hillhater]

Good news …for Nikola maybe ?
.. but now they have to sell them, and at $100k premium over a prooven equivalent diesel semi, that will be a battle against the cash consious truck buyers.
And of course there is still the little issue of hydrogen distribution and availability, ..let alone unknown “Green” H2 costs.!
And of course , if it is not “Green “ H2, then it is all a pointless exercise.

 

[JackFlorey]

..the reality of significantly increasing electricity price with the introduction of “renewables/unreliables”?

Interesting "reality" I heard from another solar guy here in San Diego.

He currently owns two houses. One in Northern San Diego, serviced by the privately owned, publicly regulated utility SDG+E. The other is in La Quinta, which is in the desert between Palm Springs and the Salton Sea. It is served by the Imperial Irrigation District, a government power and water organization.

Both utilities use a lot of renewable energy. SDGE gets 45% of its power from renewables, including 28% solar. The IID gets about 30% of its power from solar and even more from wind since they are near both the Palm Desert wind farms and the Colgreen and Oberon solar farms.

If your "reality" was true, then the IID would charge even more for power. However, here in actual reality, SDG+E charges him 42 cents per kwhr, and the IID charges him 20 cents/kwhr.

What would you rather pay?

 

[Hillhater]

What would you rather pay?

I would rather pay the <10c/kWh that it was before any Solar or wind Was introduced !

 

[Chalo]

I would rather pay the <10c/kWh that it was before any Solar or wind Was introduced !

Well, I'd rather pay the <$0.20/pound that potatoes and onions cost me at that time, too. But that's not how prices work.

My empty house lot currently being taxed at $400k value would have cost me $20k at the turn of the millennium. Is that because of solar and wind?

 

[Hillhater]

Well, I'd rather pay the <$0.20/pound that potatoes and onions cost me at that time, too. But that's not how prices work.

Consumer prices for foods, clothing, etc, are generally driven by the supply/demand balance , ….with an undercurrent of inflation , generally known as the Consumer Price Index.
But, some products buck the trend for various reasons…EG electronic goods, computers, Li batteries, oil products, etc…
Electricity prices in California are one such product. They pretty much followed CPI for many years,.. but there was a significant change around 2008-20012 , when they pushed the rate of Wind and Solar instations.
California is a typical case..and the relationship is more than coincidental..and repeated in other places where RE has been introduced in significant amounts.. eg Australia, Germany, UK, etc

 

[Chalo]

Where I live, almost everything else has increased in price faster than grid power. This while Texas has brought massive amounts of wind and solar online, and during which time gas power plants proved to be a catastrophic failure during extreme weather.

 

[Hillhater]

Where I live, almost everything else has increased in price faster than grid power. This while Texas has brought massive amounts of wind and solar online, and during which time gas power plants proved to be a catastrophic failure during extreme weather.

Well dispite “massive amounts” of wind and solar, Texas electricity is still mostly (75%) fossil and Nuclear.
…and do you remember what happened to the wind and solar during that extreme weather ?
…and, did you read the report on why those gas plants failed ?

 

[Chalo]

Well dispite “massive amounts” of wind and solar, Texas electricity is still mostly (75%) fossil and Nuclear.
…and do you remember what happened to the wind and solar during that extreme weather ?
…and, did you read the report on why those gas plants failed ?

You understand that Texas's population and energy consumption are a lot bigger than the whole of Australia, right? It's not a tiny amount of renewables, despite the fact that we're governed by corrupt right wingers whose attitudes about green energy are as backwards as your own. They still understand profitability, and that means renewables have to be in the mix.

The gas plants failed because it got cold. Very impressive, fossil thermal energy.

 

[Hillhater]

You understand that Texas's population and energy consumption are a lot bigger than the whole of Australia, right? It's not a tiny amount of renewables

I understand Texas has a population of 30m compared to 26m of Australia , so not much bigger…
… but sure the electricity consumptionis more than double ?
But, size and capacities are not relavent , …what is relavent is the % of RE generation added to a FF based system, and how that RE is prioritised into the system .

 

[Chalo]

But, size and capacities are not relavent , …what is relavent is the % of RE generation added to a FF based system, and how that RE is prioritised into the system .

Yes, but we're swimming against the current of regressive corrupt right wing zealots who are in power for the foreseeable future (yay, anti-education conservatives!). However, even they have signed off on massive YoY expansion of renewable energy to the power grid. It's because renewables make so much economic sense that even the politicians who are owned completely by oil and gas interests can't ignore them.

 

[nicobie]

I just read that Austin is getting a "upgrade" to their downtown freeway system, wanted or not...

 

[Hillhater]

It's because renewables make so much economic sense that even the politicians who are owned completely by oil and gas interests can't ignore them.

More likely ….its because it make so much FINANCIAL sense ……yada yada..
everyone involved in wind and solar facilities,..investors, suppliers, installers, operators, wholesalers, etc,…all know they will benefit from the projects.
…Follow the money !

 

[Hillhater]

Dutch Consumers and industry will soon pay 92 percent more for electricity and gas, according to a PwC study

Dutch energy prices double amid green transition

The Netherlands' green energy transition is leading to electricity and gas prices almost doubling. Consumers and industry will soon pay 92 per cent more for electricity and gas, according to a PwC…

brusselssignal.eu

 

[Ianhill]

The cost argument doesnt cut it with me, its the on display corruption that i dont like.

If i knowingly drive my car bald tyres and no brakes id be a risk for myself and all other road users.

But if a company that has knowingly pollited 5 decades on after seeing the tyre's had worn thin is damn right dangerous to all humans not just 1 or 2 yet they still not just get away with it but growing means only a court could stop this and it doesnt happen no outright ban against oil companys exploration is happening so the indusrty is not in a state of decline to go away anytine soon like coal did and any replacment tech is always decades away, wonder why ? When we have so many differing leads to follow do these companys only manage to get prototypes stage or low production its not beacuse it dony work but more to do with COST ! And lack of investment due to the amouny of subs oil swallows up.

The people are at a sit down restaurant but getting a diffetent meal to whats been ordered but the waiter is not budging on this is the best decision for you.

 

[ZeroEm]

Yes, but we're swimming against the current of regressive corrupt right wing zealots who are in power for the foreseeable future (yay, anti-education conservatives!). However, even they have signed off on massive YoY expansion of renewable energy to the power grid. It's because renewables make so much economic sense that even the politicians who are owned completely by oil and gas interests can't ignore them.

Hello everyone, have been gone for 10 months. Does not seem that any minds have been changed during this time.

The homestead value of my home is now 177k up from 80k five years ago. Texas did lower the homestead taxes but recovered their money by adding a electric car fee to the car tag/tax.

For the people that do not know natural gas is wet! So what do you think happened when it gets -10 deg F. Another thing was found out that Natural gas power plants lose efficiency with the drop in tempter. You know it takes more gas to boil at lower tempter's but the water in the gas freezing gave less gas so you can see the colder it gets the worse the output is.

 

[Hillhater]

Natural gas power plants lose efficiency with the drop in tempter.

Well …. Actually it is the oposite !
NG fueled turbines ( the main type used for generation inTx) lose efficiency as the ambient temperature increases .

Ambient temperature reduces gas turbine power output by up to 22% and decreases thermal efficiency by around 0.06% for every °C rise above ISO conditions.