Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

[Hillhater]

Goverments world wide need collapsing but here starts the anarchy they won't let the reigns go without some serious push.

.."Never scrap something until you are SURE you have something better to replace it :wink:

 

[ZeroEm]

We are a long way and have dragged our feet for 50 yrs now and don't see real change coming. Have decided that the people living on the coast need to move. Don't want to give any of my money to them for not waking up. The state of Florida now wants the Federal Government to raise their roads and bridges and build a sea wall for them. They need to move or get floating houses and buy ICE boats.

We have a big debate here in the US over infrastructure. I'm for some of it like internet, public transportation but if you don't work on emissions i'm not for fixing it up for Corporations who don't pay any tax anymore.

by Hillhater » Nov 08 2021 1:36am

"Goverments world wide need collapsing but here starts the anarchy they won't let the reigns go without some serious push..."

Never scrap something until you are SURE you have something better to replace it :wink:

 

[Ianhill]

[youtube]YQvILwnQef0[/youtube]

The demise has been a self fulfilling prophecy with terms like peak oil been used driving an instability amongst the herds mentaility towards future movements giving electric as the enivitable way forward long before its capability, now 2 decades have passed the sword they worked so hard on has gone straight in they back.

Then the phrase carbon tax and personal carbon footprint etc that was delivered to the mass by bp has meant we actually took it for real and now we have actully started to notice our mass problems.and set future goal things that didnt happen before they started the decive the public game as early as the 1970.

What does this mean in reality for average folk? It means we could move from the nipple of oil too fast millions of cars stuck on forecourts as in today with the likes of 3.0 diesels etc in uk wasting away as metal and money for those that own them.

How to protect yourself use oil to transport but make sure the car you use is of a disposable value to you becuase soon its running costs will exceed what most normal folk can afford to travel any meaningful distance to work and there comes the unraveling of the supply chain, the future is bleek from a select few knowingly deciving the masses into a shit storm of debt for the future and little working ability for the masses to work as a nation to strengthen the native currency.

On top of all this big pharma has at least 30% walking round in zombie form, pain killer addiction is mental here in uk tax payer is picking up a gigantic bill to keep alot of people in suspense.

 

[nicobie]

New pics of the Lompoc windfarm under construction.

In order to get the blades through town and through the twisty canyon road they tilt the blade upright when going through curves.

 

[Ianhill]

Those are somemighty big blades, proberly more efficient in areas of low wind speed.

Theres about 200 dotted about by me that keep scaling out to be fair theres been little interruption or breakdowns from them, not infallible theres been the odd one that screamed its head off but i dont think they have had a negative impact.

Id like to see the profitability of such units when installed obviously theres turbines on site that even though they cost the same the installation cost to plant it may very the cost amount a fair bit towards ground work and distance from sub station etc.

Since they have been about theres been more foot traffic up the mountain so that cant be a bad thing even if animals like the piece theres plenty to share without crossing paths, lucky to me the nost wild thing in my woods is a fox i wouldn't fancy the same rides i do in bear country.

 

[ZeroEm]

There is an area in the USA great plains, just east of tornado alley. Never tried to plot this out. It's starts in northern Texas cuts across Oklahoma panhandle and north into Kansas and maybe eastern Colorado. On a calm day the wind is steady at 15+ mph. Worked up there on oil wells when was young. Asked the locals when the wind was going to die down. They laughed and said what wind.

This is something todo with the Rocky mountains that causes all the Tornado's in them states. Always thought it would be a great place for 100,000 turbines. Some reason they are not doing it.

 

[nicobie]

Some reason they are not doing it.

You should have heard the millionaires on the neighboring hilltops scream and raise holy hell about these being installed.

 

[TheBeastie]

New pics of the Lompoc windfarm under construction.

Lookin good. It will be interesting to see if there are noise problems.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/download/file.php?id=306234
^I like how some of the trucks etc have USA flags on them, in Australia less that 1% of anyone would have the balls to put an Australian flag on their trucks. This is because broadcast TV MSM has been so corrosive on traditional western culture for so long than putting up the Australian flag means you are literally a NAZI...

This flag madness is another reason why I think all TV broadcast spectrum should be re-allocated to 5G/Starlink etc.

In Aus even though a lot of the free to air broadcasters get their spectrum for free they are fighting to make sure that the 600Mhz band currently used in Aus is never re-allocated to low-band 5G.
https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/government-chases-spectrum-efficiency-for-tv-signals-20200719-p55ddk.html
General public don't realize it but it's the low-bands that do most of the real work in mobile networks. Providing speeds up to the ~100mbps area for many kilometers in distance.
https://venturebeat.com/2019/12/05/t-mobiles-600mhz-5g-peaks-at-roughly-225mbps-but-there-are-caveats/
^The problem is in Australia only Telstra has a large amount of low-band spectrum, so the cheaper carriers are significantly slower/useless regional areas. The 600Mhz would massively change that.

But it's the very same thing with TV broadcast satellite services, they use the VERY same bands as Starlink/Kuiper, being Ka band/Ku band.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satellite_television#Uses
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ku_band
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starlink
The faster broadcast TV dies the FASTER and cheaper wireless internet will become for everyone by many more times than even Elon Musk is willing to say (probably another business play he is keeping to himself).
Broadcast TV is literally cancer on this world, and the over reaching power of it needs to end, no one should have a bigger voice than anyone else. On the internet the individual gets to choose who to listen to, well at least if they don't choose their content via tech-giant algorithms, but still MUCH better than old broadcast TV.
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On another subject...

Hyundai announce a set date on their hydrogen powered electric eVTOL air-taxi.
Remember, this is a huge publicly listed company with many institutional investors/funds that buy stock based on these promises, if they don't come through then they can sue them...

I think it's time that all those rubbish 'expert' YouTubers who said fuel-cells weren't going anywhere with a comfortable smile on their faces should be stripped of their YouTube earnings and jailed for being absolute clueless big-mouthed cancer on society.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-10187579/Transport-Hyundai-reveals-plans-self-flying-TAXIS-seating-five-2028.html
Hyundai says its autonomous electric flying taxi will make its maiden commercial flight in 2028
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-10187335/Hyundai-says-autonomous-electric-flying-taxi-make-maiden-flight-2028.html


Hyundai's new Air Taxi company is called "Supernal", and they have even started making fancy new videos to tell you how it's going to be.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=booaC2RnRGA
[youtube]booaC2RnRGA[/youtube]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=seF-uLbGnWk

Here was their first announcement with a human sized demo mockup vehicle last year.
https://youtu.be/L6K7GAG1Aas
[youtube]L6K7GAG1Aas[/youtube]

Sure it might start off being a taxi service for the upper class but it should reach out to more people over time like everything else.
I am pretty sure if getting to the air-port via regular smelly car/bus takes over 1.2 hours and is $50, then surely paying $120 for a x100 times more fun and exciting air-taxi ride and getting their in 20mins will be quite an enticing deal for most people.

So I think this is a big win for the future of hydrogen as a transportable/storable/portable energy technology.
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On another subject...
I first found out about this listening to Scott Adams youtube podcast ( https://www.youtube.com/c/RealCoffeewithScottAdams/videos ) , Scott said his friend Sam Alton told him personally that he really believes his company has cracked the fusion nut....
It's a shame more people don't listen to Scott, I think he is intelligent, honest and insightful, I most certainty do NOT agree with everything he says, but am willing to tolerate it to often end up learning/understanding something new about the world/humans.

The new nuclear "fusion" company called "Helion Energy", the rich founder super-nerd is putting a new extra $375million of his own money into it, not a loan or other peoples money but his own...
They aim to demonstrate net electricity production in 2024 with their new build and claim they have all the fusion problems cracked and now it's a mere formality of just building their first real pilot plant and demonstrating it.
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/11/05/sam-altman-puts-375-million-into-fusion-start-up-helion-energy.html

https://image.cnbcfm.com/api/v1/image/106971037-1636055678652-Helion-technology-print.png

^If this all comes to be, then also creating massive amounts of hydrogen becomes a mere formality

 

[TheBeastie]

When I saw the claims about solid hydrogen discs/tapes I was a bit dubious and decided I wasn't even going to spend any time thinking about it beyond watching the odd YouTube video about it or putting it on the list of things I expect to see in the real world one day, it just seemed too fanciful and schemey.

Thunderfoot has crushed it nicely
Solid Hydrogen: BUSTED!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8NQkOeRNpg
[youtube]-8NQkOeRNpg[/youtube]

 

[Hillhater]

Wind farms coming under scrutiny.....

. London, 20 November -- A report commissioned by the Norwegian government has contradicted Boris Johnson’s recent claim in Parliament that offshore wind costs have fallen by 70% in a decade.

It confirms that the UK’s newest offshore wind farms remain high-cost operations. Indeed, the academics who produced the report have said the forthcoming Dogger Bank wind farms will be unprofitable, and are essentially worthless, with a value of around minus £1 billion in current terms.....

https://www.upstreamonline.com/exclusive/worlds-largest-offshore-wind-farm-unprofitable-for-equinor-say-government-funded-researchers/2-1-1098012

Remarkably, the findings have not been disputed by the developers

 

[TheBeastie]

Scott Adams loves ebikes says they are the future https://youtu.be/V7HgTmdBt5o?t=733

Victoria switched on it's new big battery, apparently the biggest single lithium-ion battery in the world, makes sense really as I can imagine Daniel Andrews head of Victoria saying "fck South Australia! I am willing to spend $1billion of taxpayer money on a bigger battery just to take away the shine of South Australia's big battery"...
https://victorianbigbattery.com.au/
https://www.energy-storage.news/victorian-big-battery-australias-biggest-battery-storage-system-at-450mwh-is-online/
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/12/08/australia-switches-on-victoria-big-battery-powered-by-tesla-megapacks.html

Paris-based renewable energy giant Neoen developed the facility with partners Tesla Energy and AusNet, with some construction by Cimic Group’s UGL. It has enough capacity to power one million homes for half an hour, according to the web site for the project.

Got to give a thumbs up :thumb: to the honesty about being able to power 1 million homes for 30mins, back in the day (or still on ABC news) they would just say "it can power one million homes", period, leaving most people to assume it would be able to power 1 million homes for an entire whole day...

Looking at it on ElectricityMap you can see the capacity of the battery is listed, but so far it seems to barely draw a pixel on the charts. Seems like it's real usage is like the SA battery where it is supposed to sit there and provide "frequency control ancillary services (FCAS)" to help provide a stable 50hz signal over the grid.
https://app.electricitymap.org/zone/AUS-VIC
^Looking at the now almost 4,000MW of installed wind-farm capacity in Victoria it's clear that Vic state leader Daniel Andrews has spent a lot on renewables, the public is unlikely to ever really notice, power bills will stay high (IMO) and there will never be enough wind to meet expected demand just like Germany.

https://www.pv-magazine.com/2021/09/28/australian-regulator-takes-tesla-big-battery-to-court/

 

[Hillhater]

The Victorian Big Battery is a 300 MW /450MWh grid-scale battery storage project in Geelong, Australia which will store enough energy in reserve to power over one million Victorian homes for 1/2 an hour.

Really !?
So each of those homes can have << 0.9 kw for 30 mins !
.. No ..this is just another “band aid” essential to stop the grid crashing when they shut down more coal generators.!

And on that topic.. AEMO. ( Australian Electricity Market Operator ), Has released its future plans..
It expects electricity demand to DOUBLE by 2050. (Net Zero date ?)
With COAL generation reduced 14GWh before 2030. ( that is half current capacity !)
..and ALL coal shut down by 2043 !
Renewables, and Storage would have to be increased by more than TEN fold to even come any where near there expectations.
...... Or,.. we get. NUCLEAR ! ....... fast.
Actually, ..Storage will be the bigger problem..
Currently, Au’s overnight demand is about 250 GWh per night.
If that doubles to 500GWh, then on windless nights that whole demand would have to be supplied from storage.
At best , there is 60 GWh currently planned ..( mostly Pumped hydro.Snowy 2 etc) ,..so a LOT of storage would have to be installed to ensure that 35+ GW demand could be maintained overnight
That would require the equivalent of roughly 1000 of those Vic battery facilities ! :?

 

[markz]

Absolutely crazy aint it
The government of any country cant do much right can they.
But please, dont build that nuke generator in my back yard

My utilities just went up quite a bit, our heat is gas furnace with a gas insert fireplace on each of the 2 levels but water and waste is now metered. I think investing in an ETF that tracks major utilities indexes and gives dividends might be a wise investment for a good offset. You know their costs are going up because of covid inflation, but the utilities will slide in sneaky profit margins as well. If I owned a freehold (non-condo with stupid rules) I would heat the house with wood/bio-fuel converter (WW2 tech) running a generator but that would mean I need a free source of wood, and it would also run any high wattage appliance (washer, dryer, stove, microwave)

The Victorian Big Battery is a 300 MW /450MWh grid-scale battery storage project in Geelong, Australia which will store enough energy in reserve to power over one million Victorian homes for 1/2 an hour.

Really !?
So each of those homes can have << 0.9 kw for 30 mins !
.. No ..this is just another “band aid” essential to stop the grid crashing when they shut down more coal generators.!

And on that topic.. AEMO. ( Australian Electricity Market Operator ), Has released its future plans..
It expects electricity demand to DOUBLE by 2050. (Net Zero date ?)
With COAL generation reduced 14GWh before 2030. ( that is half current capacity !)
..and ALL coal shut down by 2043 !
Renewables, and Storage would have to be increased by more than TEN fold to even come any where near there expectations.
...... Or,.. we get. NUCLEAR ! ....... fast.
Actually, ..Storage will be the bigger problem..
Currently, Au’s overnight demand is about 250 GWh per night.
If that doubles to 500GWh, then on windless nights that whole demand would have to be supplied from storage.
At best , there is 60 GWh currently planned ..( mostly Pumped hydro.Snowy 2 etc) ,..so a LOT of storage would have to be installed to ensure that 35+ GW demand could be maintained overnight
That would require the equivalent of roughly 1000 of those Vic battery facilities ! :?

 

[Ianhill]

Heating your home with wood is proven but powering your electricals from it not so much.

Fire can warm water and also be used for cooking so the power needs is made much smaller a few kw would tick things over.

One things for sure we have spoken of instabilities and poor choices and the prices now sky rocket so if we make believe all is well im sure the market will react with lower prices this AI is getting smart and waging a war on the minds.

 

[Hillhater]

Heating your home with wood is proven but powering your electricals from it not so much.

Fire can warm water and also be used for cooking so the power needs is made much smaller a few kw would tick things over.

Burning wood for energy is a step back to the dark ages.
In no form is it as efficient, lower emissions, cheaper, or anymore sustainable, than Gas or Coal.
For anyone concerned with CO2 emissions, not only does wood produce more per MWh, but it also depletes one of the main sources of CO2 sinks in the process.
Further, whilst it may be possible for a portion of the population,....for the majority it is totally inaccessible and impractical, even as a simple heating solution (city , apartments, etc)
Eventually, reality will force a realistic workable solution to energy demands that is reliable and affordable.

 

[Ianhill]

Eventually, reality will force a realistic workable solution to energy demands that is reliable and affordable.

Rewording that into the realistic workable energy solution has always been wood it stood for millenia, its the multiples of metropolis growing around the woods on oil wealth thats unrealistic.

On them terms i agree with your comment its not for anyone but the most isolated or arsonist.

 

[Hillhater]

Wood is only useful to a limited population, in limited applications, for a limited period .
It is not realistic, reliable, or sustainable.
It cannot be a “Utility” source.
The “multiples of Metropolis growing on oil” (fossil fuel),.....is certainly realistic.....because we are the proof !
It is also much more sustainable than current alternatives (wind , solar etc) than many would have you think.

 

[Ianhill]

Wood is only useful to a limited population, in limited applications, for a limited period .
It is not realistic, reliable, or sustainable.
It cannot be a “Utility” source.
The “multiples of Metropolis growing on oil” (fossil fuel),.....is certainly realistic.....because we are the proof !
It is also much more sustainable than current alternatives (wind , solar etc) than many would have you think.

Oil is only sustainable aslong as you have a large enough source and area to convert while still being able to breath, all the citys that suffered with smog burned fossil fuel, wood is not a fossil fuel its harvestable and so can bio fuels but that did not build or sustain our countrys that came from an oil well.

Its either nuclear some sort of new idea or a bleek future of expensive energy.

One thing for sure us has printed 80% of its dollars in the past 2 years thats devalued the money in our pockets pushing energy prices further out of reach, im not burning wood but i know wood incinerator supply my local grid along with wind gas and nuclear and a water based battery system, coal is gone plant decomishing happening welsh era ended in 2019 for coal and the spot is looking to be used for a reactor with a 2040 timeline.

 

[Hillhater]

.wood is not a fossil fuel its harvestable and so can bio fuels but that did not build or sustain our countrys that came from an oil well....

Sure, wood is not fossil, but it still results in all the same emissions when burnt...infact more per btu !
And , as i said you could not harvest enough of it to sustain societies needs.
Keep an eye on the UK energy /electricity situation this winter... i hear they are already dusting off the cobwebs frorm a coal generator or two !

 

[Ianhill]

.wood is not a fossil fuel its harvestable and so can bio fuels but that did not build or sustain our countrys that came from an oil well....

Sure, wood is not fossil, but it still results in all the same emissions when burnt...infact more per btu !
And , as i said you could not harvest enough of it to sustain societies needs.
Keep an eye on the UK energy /electricity situation this winter... i hear they are already dusting off the cobwebs frorm a coal generator or two !

Sure i dont think wood could sustain what we have built but neither can oil in reality demand out stipped supply years ago since we found it you could say as it was irreplaceable on our time scale.

No coal burnt in wales on the grid anymore since 2019 so ill have to check what the rest of uk is upto inbetween this virus shitstorm going on.

Id love to have a clear plan for the future and if we all agree nuclear, things could carry on but for some reason people have a hardon to kill it.

 

[Hillhater]

No coal burnt in wales on the grid anymore since 2019 so ill have to check what the rest of uk is upto inbetween this virus shitstorm going on.

The “Grid” is UK wide, so as long as Wales uses power from the grid, does not escape any accountability of sourcing.
Currently, the UK grid is generating 35 GW, or which, 22 GW is from Fossil fuels !.. including some coal..
https://www.energydashboard.co.uk/live

 

[Ianhill]

No coal burnt in wales on the grid anymore since 2019 so ill have to check what the rest of uk is upto inbetween this virus shitstorm going on.

The “Grid” is UK wide, so as long as Wales uses power from the grid, does not escape any accountability of sourcing.
Currently, the UK grid is generating 35 GW, or which, 22 GW is from Fossil fuels !.. including some coal..
https://www.energydashboard.co.uk/live

Theres 3 power stations in uk that burn coal all of them are in england i believe, they burnt more recent with the gas price increases, drax was converted to wood pellet but the remaining 3 will become decommissioned by 2024, the same document mentioned the key role of nuclear into the future.

From what i understand coal price is high too so the instability in supply and demand of gas helps fuel the price hike outside of us government print press activity.

Theres a perfect storm brewing in so many ways that our future could melt away before our own eyes and it wont be the ice caps.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/2021/david-baddiel-social-media-anger-and-us

Ive been researching the human, piece together behaviour over time and influances and its amazing how primative out brain is with fast paced information but guven the time to sit down analyse data and piece together with collaboration over time to realize our postion in the universe but fast paced negative information can destabilise the hurd as a whole and it is.

 

[Hillhater]

Seasons greetings to all at ES, and lets hope 2022 is a better year all round !
I was going to post a greetings card, but instead i thought i would remind us all of what real, reliable, power generators look like. This is one of the 20 or so 1350 MW steam driven generator units that China will install next year....fueled by coal in their case , but Nuclear would do the job also.
One of these units produces more power than 1000 of the biggest wind turbines all running together ...
....and it does it reliably for 3 times the life span of those wind turbines !

 

[nicobie]

I never could understand getting rid of nuclear power plants. Seems like fixing their problems is a better solution than tearing them down.

 

[ZeroEm]

Fear, fear of them harming our health.
I don't like the bad side of nuclear power plants. Have come to the understanding that we need them to break our addiction of current fuel's.

by nicobie » Dec 30 2021 8:51pm

I never could understand getting rid of nuclear power plants. Seems like fixing their problems is a better solution than tearing them down.

Wish the best to Hillhater and everyone at ES.

Our world is at a cross roads and hope it all turns out well. The generations that come after me will never know the empty roads and joy of driving them. Roads were narrow and vehicles were slow. Remember sitting on my grandfathers lap and trying to drive his 1951 Ford pickup truck. This was in the mid 1960's. No body has time for that anymore and the roads have to many cars.