ES Raffle Bike Project

Here we go guys, group project time.  We have all been asking, what can I do to help the Sphere transition into the next phase. Many have suggested a ton of good ideas, but none of them fun. Well, I have an idea that will engage the community, use our various talents and knowledge, and could turn out to be extremely fun and entertaining. 

I propose the Endless Sphere community build the baddest electric ebike ( or scooter) the world has ever seen. Then once completed, we sell raffle tickets for $5 each and give the thing away to one lucky winner. If successful, the completed bike should net enough money to pay the contributors back in materials and give Justin his investment in ES partially back (hopefully fully). 

How I see it working:

Step 1. We get some of the artistic talent to sketch up a design and vote on them in the poll section. This could include plans already posted, napkin sketches, but preferably CAD renderings. Remember, this is something we actually have to build and ride, so let's be realistic. 

2.  A team is put together with various talents to construct and combine all necessary components on the proposed design. This would include a CAD artist, machinist, welder, bicycle mechanic, painter, electrical guru, motor expert, composites expert, controller modder, battery expert, etc... I'm not sure how the team could be chosen, but we could certainly have a hierarchy of team captains and each captain could choose a few guys for his particular area of expertise. 

3. Logistics. At some point the whole of the components will need to be sent to one particular member with the means and the will to actually accomplish the final stage of this project. There are very few guys that fall under this category, and often they are too busy for such an endeavor.  However, there are pockets of high concentration of members, in particular San Fransisco, England, and Australia. If we can't get one of the talented builders to volunteer, we always have this option. 

4. Raffle.  Obviously, there will be many Herr on the board that will gladly throw $50 or even $100 to support the Sphere and having the chance to win a sick ebike is just icing on the cake. But to truly take advantage of such a beautiful handcrafted work of art that we as a community could put together, I think we should take it to a few major cities. I would like to take it into LA and Hollywood to see if Jay Leno wants to try it, or Jesse James, or any celebrity open minded to this kind of transportation. One of those guys alone, having heard of our great battle for freedom could write a check and pay Justin out. We need some serious publicity to make this work, and I have a feeling the media is hungry for this kind of story. In my area alone (LA ) I am convinced we could raffle enough tickets to make some serious money for the sphere. I have so many ideas on how to market this, there is not enough time. Makers Faire, custom Bike shows, conventions, just to name a few. 

Can you imagine what kind of ebike or scooter this clan could come up with?  I know it's quite an ambitious undertaking, but having seen the passion and solidarity this past weekend, I am convinced we can do this.  

Now time for some honest feedback, let's here the good the bad, and the ugly. Let me have it guys. 

The biggest problem I see with this is that it will be quite difficult to get even a large segment, much less a majority, to agree on what "the baddest ebike" might actually be. :lol:

For instance, I certainly wouldn't agree with most people, because my usages are very different; and this is true for a number of others I can think of.

You might take a look at Maxwell's thread about his frame design to get an idea what I'm talking about, problem-wise.


The rest of the idea? Might work, but getting it all done inside a year or two or three might be tough.

AW,
I see what you are saying, and I have most definately read the Maxwell thread, bu if we limit design parameters to sexy and cool, that is something we can agree upon usually. Just the same that I think any reasonable guy can look at a Ducati or KTM or even some Harleys and say that is one badass bike. This will be a show bike that will show what we as a group can do. Ford motor company doesn't advertise thier 15 passenger vans to show what they can do, no, they advertise thier Mustang burning some rear tires. That's what I'm talking about here, I love the utility of cargo long haulers, but sexy they are not.

If we work together, we can get it done in a few months. Besides, building season is upon us!

Even sexy and cool can be different. There are quite a number of those that many on here think are, but I don't like at all.

And if I dared make nice-looking bikes (theft problems) then I'd have some pretty sexy longtail cargo bikes, not just the junker look I have now. :lol:

Well at some point a compromise will inevitably have to be made by all, that's the nature of the beast. Also, if the builders and engineers don't feel it can be built then the design will have to be modified or a more realistic design will be chosen. Polling will get the crowd favorite, ultimately the team leaders will choose the design to be built.

I think this could work. Frame peramiters would have to be set from the get go. And it sounds like you already have that pinned down. Wile AW is right, not everyone will like that design, but I think fr the most part, the majority could agree on it. Or at lest enough people to make it a worthy project.

How would you handle shipping it to the said winner? Remember customs is some countries like Australia is ridiculously expensive.

Sounds like a logistical nightmare to me. Design by committee, source and buy parts, however many builders and a painter, show it, raffle it, ship it to new owner. Yikes....especially if something goes wrong somewhere in there, like scratched paint or fried electronics.

What I think could work better is to have a build off. Give people a year to make whatever ebike they want and then we vote the winner and raffle that ebike. The bike being raffled would be sold to ES at cost...so everyone would keep receipts and when the raffle ends the winning builder gets reimbursed (unless the builder donates the bike, which could be private). Some spending limit could be put in place, or not.

For the entrants not in the raffle, I think it would be ok to require that, if they sell their bike within a year after the raffle, some small percentage has to be donated to ES. Maybe require the ES url be displayed somewhere as well.

I really like the idea of being able to win a kickass ebike and have it benefit the board at the same time....I'm just not sure designing by committee and all that would really work.

Regarding the build-off idea, I'm personally partial to the way some of the ones over at FreakBikeNation forums have been setup.

Would this be a raffle open to all or just ES members? That would play a big part int he design

If it is open to members of the public...or who ever we can sell a ticket to, then the battery system needs to be something that Joe Public can plug and play. But if it was a ES member then that opens the power source up to stuff that you may not want to give to the general public

Yeah, raffling the baddest bike might involve a lot of liability. Maybe raffling the lamest bike might be best. Like something pre made, where the manufaturer has liability insurance.

Raffling something else though, like a kit, would make sense. The kit could even include a good bike to install on if we chose.
It does lame it down a lot though, most likely to a frockmotor.

It could still be something pretty nice though, like a yuba mundo with stokemonkey kit.

Ok, I'm game to get involved in the ultimate cargo longtail raffle. It's as sexy as a minivan, but hey if I can haul shit with it and still go 30 mph, I'm game. How about a sem- recumbent/chopper/ longhauler? For safety we could be build a complete bike sans batteries. This way there is no need for liability issues and the bike could be built cheaper.

It's funny, we sure as hell can get together and burn crosses on Trevors front yard, and raise our fists in the air, but to turn that energy into something positive that might actually require selflessness and teamwork is a whole nother story.

etard said:

Ok, I'm game to get involved in the ultimate cargo longtail raffle. It's as sexy as a minivan, but hey if I can haul shit with it and still go 30 mph, I'm game. How about a sem- recumbent/chopper/ longhauler? For safety we could be build a complete bike sans batteries. This way there is no need for liability issues and the bike could be built cheaper.

It's funny, we sure as hell can get together and burn crosses on Trevors front yard, and raise our fists in the air, but to turn that energy into something positive that might actually require selflessness and teamwork is a whole nother story.

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i like the chopper longhauler idea, but it occurs to me that there's too much weight in the rear. how about that recumbent chopper, that's capable of towing ? as for the ranting about how some here aren't willing to contribute even MORE of their valuable time and effort, very bad form, methinks. and who might that have been directed at ?

as for something positive, i've seen many suggestions about forum merchandise, and i don't think i can remember a single negative comment about it. is there something to say that this merch, couldn't be a bike ? designed, built, and sold, by the forum ? i like the idea that it might foster some of that teamwork you mentioned. and i don't see a problem with a few people profiting from their work. actually, i kinda like it. maybe it even frees a few from the slavery they currently endure. and it seems to me to be a much better way to get the revolution going. i'm thinking that in a lot of ways, we think revolution INdirectly, like we're going to have the coolest bikes, that others will just naturally gravitate towards the idea. as small a group as we are, that might take quite a long time. and considering the fact that it takes quite a bit of skill to put something like this together, most will just sit on the sidelines in awe, wishing there was a way to experience what we do. what if we take a more direct approach, and make it possible for MASSES of people, to OWN that ev grin that we all seem to cherish ? AND, at the same time, encourage some here to take a giant step, from hobbyist, to, self sufficient producer. seems like a win win in my book.

a raffle of any kind should have the broadest "ME" appeal possible..especialy if tickets will be sold outside ES...which they most definitely should be for max returns[ cargo bike,longtails ect have limited appreciation or understanding outside ES] it should be modern,glossy and instantly eye catching... a low rider or chopper would be "DIFFERENT"... everybody wants to be noticed.... especialy show people like Jay Leno... if you want people like that to publiucize for you [without paying their seven figure fees] you have to be really unusual...they have the ultimate "ME" appeal re quirements

How about we give the winner a choice? They can go and pick from a list of different options. It doesn't have to be a long list.

However, the raffle needs to generate a lot more money than the cost of the bike. Is $5 not a bit too low? How many active members are on this forum?

It is a great idea etard.

The only reason I though of the longtail, ( yeah a minivan) was because many of us don't already have one. While many of us do have a bike that hauls ass.

But if the popular demand is there for it, then do a racing bike that does 50 mph. But I didn't touch it, so don't sue me when you crash.

Most badass ebike ever you say?

Hmm... I might have that sitting around all ready made.

liveforphysics said:

Most badass ebike ever you say?

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badass, yes, ebike, no. like i said before, we can stick feathers up our butts, doesn't make us chickens. and, when are you gunna stop putting pedals on your motorcycles ? ... i will say, $ for $, or pound for pound, unbeatable. probably quickest build time too. question is, are you willing to part with it ? i don't figure you for the nostalgic type. i figure you for the powersliding through the pearly gates screaming, on your right on your right on your right, type.

STD :lol:
as for the ranting about how some here aren't willing to contribute even MORE of their valuable time and effort, very bad form, methinks.

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Just kidding with your name bro, I wasn't talking about contributions, I was mainly talking about the naysayers in the first few posts. I completely understand if somebody can't get involved because of other reasons, but to just pop in and say it's impossible and they wouldn't get involved because it doesn't fit their ideal, that's not very productive now is it.

i'm thinking that in a lot of ways, we think revolution INdirectly, like we're going to have the coolest bikes, that others will just naturally gravitate towards the idea.

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This is EXACTLY what I was thinking. Like I stated before, very few people get a big grin on thier face when they drive a van, on the contrary, they think, "How am I going to manuever this burdensome beast?" When people get on scooters and ebikes they grin, but if a lot of our ebikes are "mopeds" (like fat chicks) fun as hell to ride, but you don't want your friends seeing you ride one. :lol:

Now take Luke's bike, it's a damn clean build and any one of us would give our pinky finger to ride it, but to the outsider or bicyclist, there's a lot of shit there. I couldn't park it at a motorcycle show and get any awards, it's just not aesthetically pleasing to Joe Public. It's very functional, and it has one purpose, to go fast.

Kriskros
a raffle of any kind should have the broadest "ME" appeal possible..especialy if tickets will be sold outside ES...which they most definitely should be for max returns[ cargo bike,longtails ect have limited appreciation or understanding outside ES] it should be modern,glossy and instantly eye catching... a low rider or chopper would be "DIFFERENT"... everybody wants to be noticed.... especialy show people like Jay Leno... if you want people like that to publiucize for you [without paying their seven figure fees] you have to be really unusual...they have the ultimate "ME" appeal re quirements

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That's what I was thinking too, eye catching, shiny lines and bodywork. Cover all those ugly wires up, round out that battery pack and controller, put an air intake in front , water cooling, led's, custom bits, billet dropouts, anodized rims, meaty tires, carbon fiber accents, sick headlights, flying space monkeys!!

liveforphysics said:

Most badass ebike ever you say?

Hmm... I might have that sitting around all ready made.

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what would the insurance coverage cost???? a newbie winner could rackup some serious hospital time with that

etard said:

STD :lol:

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ok, tard, back atcha, lol

etard said:

I wasn't talking about contributions, I was mainly talking about the naysayers in the first few posts. I completely understand if somebody can't get involved because of other reasons, but to just pop in and say it's impossible and they wouldn't get involved because it doesn't fit their ideal, that's not very productive now is it.

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agreed, but it IS a logistics nightmare, but maybe that also makes it a noble ambition.

ptd said:

i'm thinking that in a lot of ways, we think revolution INdirectly, like we're going to have the coolest bikes, that others will just naturally gravitate towards the idea.

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etard said:

This is EXACTLY what I was thinking. Like I stated before, very few people get a big grin on thier face when they drive a van, on the contrary, they think, "How am I going to manuever this burdensome beast?" When people get on scooters and ebikes they grin, but if a lot of our ebikes are "mopeds" (like fat chicks) fun as hell to ride, but you don't want your friends seeing you ride one. :lol:

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i was actually pointing out that indirectly might be less effective. it's not that you couldn't do both, but i was thinking like the fish story, give a guy a fish, he eats for day, teach him how to fish, and he eats for a lifetime. a good analogy might be, let a guy ride your bike, he gets a grin for a day, show him how to make one, and you get a convert, but show him how to easily get one, and you start the revolution.

etard said:

Now take Luke's bike, it's a damn clean build and any one of us would give our pinky finger to ride it, but to the outsider or bicyclist, there's a lot of shit there. I couldn't park it at a motorcycle show and get any awards, it's just not aesthetically pleasing to Joe Public. It's very functional, and it has one purpose, to go fast.

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i'd give my pinky finger to ride some of the cheerleaders he hangs out with, not the bike. now, if the bike is the ice breaker, well, there goes the pinky...lol

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Looks like a duck, pedals like a duck, flies like a motorcycle. Damn...I agree, that's not an ebike, it's an emotorcycle with pedals.

The pedals confuse me because foot pegs would be easier, lighter and improve aero. :?

etard said:

It's funny, we sure as hell can get together and burn crosses on Trevors front yard, and raise our fists in the air, but to turn that energy into something positive that might actually require selflessness and teamwork is a whole nother story.

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I think it's just harder to get us to agree on how to do it...with the other there ended up a pretty clear leader or set of leaders taking over and gettin' it done.

That's probably what would have to happen here, to make this work like that did.

(no, I'm not volunteering for leader, but I will help with whatever I can)

Ok, call me a naysayer, but I would buy a ticket, or a few tickets for one of Lukes bikes, even sans battery.

At the moment, I don't have a bike with motorcycle tires, etc. And BTW, anybody but me notice that that one is a chain drive longtail? Just not a yuba mundo frame. Did I say build a slow sucky longtail?

Hey I got it! Let's build a tandem longtail, except the rider and passenger sit motorcycle style on one seat and the passenger pedals on elongated pedals with the rider, three-legged race style! :lol:

AW,
I know it would be hard, but anything worth doing in life usually is right? :wink:

I guess the reason I came up with this idea is because I have been to a few events and meet ups and it seems we all would love to have a more localized group of guys that we can get together and shoot the shit with over coffee or beers and call a friend over if you get stuck on your build or need an extra hand. I am seeing this as a sort of long distance experiment of that, I think it would fullfill that need of botherhood like the RC flying clubs have. Also, business is conducted like this all the time, one part is made in Detroit, another in NY, and the rest in China :x but at some point it all comes together.

Another option might be to allow vendors to donate parts and then give them some advertising space on the bike or on a placard that can be removed from the bike once it is raffled.

I posted a similar idea to this in another thread but the bike I envisioned was a bit less intense. I was thinking more along the lines of this bike that mst3kpimp created:


Something simple but with style. Here's his build thread: My "NUCLEAR" Cruiser

I think it would be better to start simple and if the idea catches go for more on the next Raffle.

Gary