Scooter riders and Dealing with Bicyclists

skeelo

10 mW
Joined
Apr 14, 2014
Messages
25
Location
Vancouver, BC
There's unwritten rules with ebikes on the road and in Vancouver we share bike lanes legally, however do you notice a lot of bicyclists look at you and seem annoyed of you? while you wiz by far away from them, even with fair warning that you are passing by, how do you deal with some bicylists who seem to think that you as an Ebike rider with pedals on your scooter are breaking the rules like you are riding a moped, I even had this one guy on his bike get annoyed as his gf on her bicycle wouldn't move over as I drove 2km/hr by her and she wouldn't move over, he yelled out to her where I could hear, 'watch out, there's a "silent killer".

I obey the laws, I don't push around the bicylists, I bide my time and pass em all in a safe manner where anyone could hear my scooter coming, I now honk my crappy little horn on side streets where's there's no traffic around and I'm passing a bicyclist just out of courtesy.

I just think there's a abit lot of jealousy and road rage in bicyclist's, as really for every 100 bicycles there's about 1 ebike.

Sorry just ranting.
 
No one likes those E-bikes that look like scooters with pedals. For the least amount of guff ride an E-bike that looks like a bike. A friendly sounding little bell also helps as does pedaling and slowly passing.

-R
 
Russell said:
No one likes those E-bikes that look like scooters with pedals. For the least amount of guff ride an E-bike that looks like a bike. A friendly sounding little bell also helps as does pedaling and slowly passing.

-R

'NO ONE'? ha that's fine by me, law is the law, you want to play by the street rules I'm ready, lol EASTVAN raised, going to court isn't fun for anyone either, been there done that, street wise pssh, we ain't talkin' hells angels/red scorpions, this a ebike vs bicycle.

I'm paying another 2 yrs for my fast ebike/scooter with pedals, i'm cruising by.
 
Also, don't "wiz by". This is more annoying and less safe due to the relative speeds.
 
You want to be like an Ebike so bad, but how come this post is in the electric scooter and motorcycle general section?

It seems like every time there is a discussion about this or even worse related subjects, it always pertains to one of those awful scooter monstrosities with pedals. And the OP may be right if you cannot pedal the giant thing past a cyclist without using electric power, you probably shouldn't be there in the first place.
 
skeetab5780 said:
You want to be like an Ebike so bad, but how come this post is in the electric scooter and motorcycle general section?

It seems like every time there is a discussion about this or even worse related subjects, it always pertains to one of those awful scooter monstrosities with pedals. And the OP may be right if you cannot pedal the giant thing past a cyclist without using electric power, you probably shouldn't be there in the first place.

But the LAW is the LAW, and it states that as long as the electric scooter has pedals, 500w or less, limited at 32 kph, and has a sticker from the manufacturer, it is LEGAL on roads, and bike paths.

If I look at the bulk of posts here on ES, it appears that the majority of the "e-bikes" here are breaking the law. So maybe the bicyclists & ebikers that don't like should breathe through the nose and chill.

No disrespect to ebikers, but I was brought up to share… :)

PS: I get more disrespect from bicyclists or Ebikes passing at dangerous speeds than I get with other electric scooters. So I am willing to put my money on the fact that the e-scooter crowd is a safer group.

You constantly hear about bicyclists being caught in accidents, yet very rarely hear about e-scooters in accidents.

Hmmm… makes you wonder.
 
how dufous. honks his horn at bicyclists from his scooter and doesn't get it when they are offended by his presence. duh.

then this last guy blaming bicyclists for being in accidents caused by CARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
rscamp said:
Also, don't "wiz by". This is more annoying and less safe due to the relative speeds.

Agreed, I prefer to fly by at triple their speed, but out in the roadway, not anywhere near them. I respect them (as long as they don't blast through stop signs and red lights) and they respect me, so there's never any flack or friction since it's quite obvious that they're completely different classes of vehicle despite the same legal status here. The vast majority are curious to get a close look when they catch me in a parking lot.
 
skeetab5780 said:
You want to be like an Ebike so bad, but how come this post is in the electric scooter and motorcycle general section?

It seems like every time there is a discussion about this or even worse related subjects, it always pertains to one of those awful scooter monstrosities with pedals. And the OP may be right if you cannot pedal the giant thing past a cyclist without using electric power, you probably shouldn't be there in the first place.

2 wheels and an electric motor make both ebikes, period. Legal classification is irrelevant, and varies widely depending upon jurisdiction anyway. Aggressive discrimination based on looks against one small group like that is appalling. Those scooter ebikes could have useful perfectly functional pedals and the reaction would be the same. Something doesn't need pedals anyway, and I guarantee none of you would have any negative reaction to a standup kickbike being in the bike lane. If a bit of reason is injected to the thought process, then it's easy to see that mingling with scooter ebikes with pedals removed is actually safer for everyone than you think. That's because they have smooth curved sides instead of jagged sharp protrusions to get caught on and ripped open such as pedals and exposed axles, so you'd just slide off to the side instead getting tangled up like you would with a pedal bike.

I wouldn't ride a scooter ebike, because the thin metal tubing making up the frame prevents modification to the performance level I require. I like having more control with a bike between my legs, which is why I'm not comfortable riding with feet on a platform. I wouldn't ride grandma type trike either, but just because I wouldn't ride something doesn't mean I have a problem with anyone who does. For anyone riding around propelled by an electric motor I say more power to you brother.
 
John in CR said:
skeetab5780 said:
You want to be like an Ebike so bad, but how come this post is in the electric scooter and motorcycle general section?

It seems like every time there is a discussion about this or even worse related subjects, it always pertains to one of those awful scooter monstrosities with pedals. And the OP may be right if you cannot pedal the giant thing past a cyclist without using electric power, you probably shouldn't be there in the first place.

2 wheels and an electric motor make both ebikes, period. Legal classification is irrelevant, and varies widely depending upon jurisdiction anyway. Aggressive discrimination based on looks against one small group like that is appalling. Those scooter ebikes could have useful perfectly functional pedals and the reaction would be the same. Something doesn't need pedals anyway, and I guarantee none of you would have any negative reaction to a standup kickbike being in the bike lane. If a bit of reason is injected to the thought process, then it's easy to see that mingling with scooter ebikes with pedals removed is actually safer for everyone than you think. That's because they have smooth curved sides instead of jagged sharp protrusions to get caught on and ripped open such as pedals and exposed axles, so you'd just slide off to the side instead getting tangled up like you would with a pedal bike.

I wouldn't ride a scooter ebike, because the thin metal tubing making up the frame prevents modification to the performance level I require. I like having more control with a bike between my legs, which is why I'm not comfortable riding with feet on a platform. I wouldn't ride grandma type trike either, but just because I wouldn't ride something doesn't mean I have a problem with anyone who does. For anyone riding around propelled by an electric motor I say more power to you brother.

I think there needs to be an understanding on terminology. People say ebike, they mean electric bicycle. A lot of things seen on this forum and else where don't fall into the category of ebike, but some people want to have their emoto (electric motorcycle) fall into the category of an ebike to bypass various laws. The rest, such as yourself, use ebike incorrectly, like a general term that means anything with two wheels and an electric motor. In my opinion, when you start burning 1000s of watts and exceed 30mph, you are well within emoto territory.
 
Agreed. Technically that leaves those with a cycle like frame-not a feet first platform-who travel between 20-30 mph as being either electric mopeds (moped=motor + pedals) or Motor Driven Cycles which is another term for the same thing.

But there are so many gray crossover areas now. Personally, I would call all the new custom frame/Cro builds as mopeds and vehicles like John in Cr's as motorcycles.

Electric scooters can get rid of those silly pedals when the law comes on board and recognizes them by wattage.
 
bowlofsalad said:
I think there needs to be an understanding on terminology.

Why, so elitist pedalist can put people and bikes into categories they believe to be something less than their own? Motorcycles are regularly referred to as bikes, as are bicycles with pedals, and no one complains. Puts an electric motor on them, just add an "e" for electric. It doesn't entitle elitists to start excluding others. I'm all for inclusion, not exclusion, so I welcome those with 3 wheels too...the more the merrier. If someone wants to have pedals on their ebike, fine. What's wrong with that even if it's just to get around some silly law? There are way too many laws and too many clueless people involved in making them, case in point almost all of those related to electrics.
 
John in CR said:
bowlofsalad said:
I think there needs to be an understanding on terminology.

Why, so elitist pedalist can put people and bikes into categories they believe to be something less than their own? Motorcycles are regularly referred to as bikes, as are bicycles with pedals, and no one complains. Puts an electric motor on them, just add an "e" for electric. It doesn't entitle elitists to start excluding others. I'm all for inclusion, not exclusion, so I welcome those with 3 wheels too...the more the merrier. If someone wants to have pedals on their ebike, fine. What's wrong with that even if it's just to get around some silly law? There are way too many laws and too many clueless people involved in making them, case in point almost all of those related to electrics.

Your bandwagon argument doesn't make your opinion correct, nor does it impress me. Just because some people use a word incorrectly doesn't mean they are right. This isn't about exclusion or ego, simply about calling things what they are. Being vague, general, or using slang isn't going to help the process of communication. You can speak however you want, but I wouldn't go around calling a e-trike an e-bike either, the label e-trike isn't about class or disrespectful distinction, simply to call things what they are. What is the difference between the words bicycle and tricycle? The letters bi and tri have different meanings, bi means two, and tri means three. In this situation, that is all it is a reference to, the number of tires the object has.

Your whole 'elitists' argument just sounds like bitter words from someone who feels upset because they can't ride and park their electric motorcycle anywhere and everywhere they please, it's illogical and out of place/touch. Nobody is being bigoted or discriminatory against you because they care for the safety and well being of others. The whole concept around creating divided routes, paths, and top speeds relates to safety. When there are huge differences in speed between types of objects in motion, the situations become dangerous, which is the opposite of safe. You don't want your grandma using her walker between the lanes of a 60+mph highway unless you are looking to make grandma pancakes. I have nothing against electric motorcycles (e-moto), I much prefer an e-moto to their gas powered version (noise pollution reduction or elimination), but there is a difference between electric bicycles and electric motorcycles. You can argue until you are blue in the face that all things with an electric motorcycle and any number of wheels is an ebike, but if that is the case that I guess every person in a prius is riding an ebike. Clearly, your generalization isn't going to help you or anyone, you just want to call your motorcycle a bicycle because it serves you.

Electric bicycles and electric motorcycles are a terminology distinction between a human to electric motor output ratio. Motorcycles are called motorcycles when the motor is the primary, or only, source of propulsion. Most humans can probably maintain a continuous output of around 200w for an extended period of time. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rkjh9XTURCs If this is what you are riding, you are on an electric motorcycle. It isn't necessarily a bad thing, it's just a very clear distinction. 24kw and a top speed of over 60mph? The only reason why people have those bicycle pedals on these types of bikes is so they can ride around where ever they want and get away with breaking/avoiding various laws.
 
bowlofsalad said:
Motorcycles are called motorcycles when the motor is the primary, or only, source of propulsion.
So the pedaling rider on a tandem is riding a bicycle, but the non-pedaler is riding on a motorcycle?
 
skeelo said:
I obey the laws, I don't push around the bicylists, I bide my time and pass em all in a safe manner where anyone could hear my scooter coming, I now honk my crappy little horn on side streets where's there's no traffic around and I'm passing a bicyclist just out of courtesy.
Just be careful about that horn honking: some places it's illegal to honk while passing a bicycle (presumably because it could surprise/scare the rider, and their resulting actions could result in a collision/etc.)

I know I certainly dislike it when anyone does it to me, regardless of why or in what situation. Same in decades past when i just rode plain bicycles vs any of my contraptions, motorized or not.


Other than that, all I can say is "share the road", and be courteous. Not everyone will be, but more people will be courteous back to a courteous person than otherwise.
 
gogo said:
bowlofsalad said:
Motorcycles are called motorcycles when the motor is the primary, or only, source of propulsion.
So the pedaling rider on a tandem is riding a bicycle, but the non-pedaler is riding on a motorcycle?

My personal opinion is that if a silent and light electrical motor does what you or a sporty professional cyclist can output with his legs should not underly any regulations. That is 2500w peak and 500w constant and about 35km/h.

The tandem argument is just 1 example why teh pedelec system is bogus.

Sure someone can argue that his 5000w ebike is a lycra tandem virtually. :mrgreen:
 
Bowlofsalad,

LOL! I'm not bitter in the least about anything, especially since all of my ebikes get the same legal treatment as any pedal bike, with one exception. Because my motors enable me to attain the minimum speed, I can legally ride on the highway while a cyclist cannot, so I enjoy greater freedom. Now that you want to invoke the actual derivation and meaning of words, bicycle means it has two wheels, and there's no requirement for pedals based on the name. Even though it's just a legal definition thing, bicycle is broadly accepted to mean a pedal bike, so if you want to exclude others based on your prejudices and call yours an e-bicycle, go for it.

Bike on the other hand is too generic for pedalists to claim as their own. That would make them the only "bikers", which obviously won't work. No, a bike has 2 wheels, regardless of propulsion. I have called all of my bikes "bikes". My pedal bikes were and are bikes. My motorcycles were all bikes, and all of my ebikes are bikes. I add the "e" to make it ebike, when I want to specifically point out the electric propulsion. I actually have pedals with crank arms on all of my ebikes. I prefer the variable foot position compared to pegs. I generally don't have chains on them, mainly because I don't like the noise of a FW, and because of the potential of a FW failure at speed could cause the pedals to instantly go from 0 rpm to wheel rpm.

No, my ebikes aren't motorcycles, they're just ebikes, close cousins, but no. To say otherwise is like saying a sports car ceases to be a car because it's capable of too high a speed, or it has too much horsepower. Even pedal bikes are capable of pretty extreme speed. Look at records set by drafting a car, or installing an aerodynamic shell, or simply pointing it down a steep hill, but it doesn't make them motorcycles despite what their human motor can do. The biologic motor of racing cyclists can easily exceed the output of what is legal for an ebike to retain bicycle treatment in almost every country with restrictive laws for ebikes, but that doesn't make them motorcycles. The lack of consistency and common sense in these laws is ridiculous, yet many here adopt the legal definitions as their own, though most seem to reject Australia's.

Stop giving the poor scooter ebike riders such a hard time. They're no less safe for people around them. Is it jealously about being protected from spray off the tires on wet roads, or being mostly out of the wind when its cold? Those advantages are nothing compared to the cavernous battery boxes they have, plus protected storage under the seat, and often behind the front faring too. Don't tell me it's just based on their looks...Aren't you ashamed of yourself for being a bigot?...and against a fellow EVer no less. I think I'll start assigning designations, Chalo1, Chalo2, Chalo3, etc.

The real problem with classifications is that it prevents the manufacture of what are arguably the most useful and practical vehicles. They that fall in that no man's land somewhere between motorcycles and bicycles. The motorcycle manufacturers don't want to build them due to product liability concerns related to extremely light vehicles and the fact that mopeds have never become broadly popular. The bicycle manufacturers won't do it either, because too many want them to be classified as a motor vehicle from a legal standpoint. The government doesn't want them, because they'd end up in some moped classification with very minimal fees.
 
\/ampa said:
gogo said:
bowlofsalad said:
Motorcycles are called motorcycles when the motor is the primary, or only, source of propulsion.
So the pedaling rider on a tandem is riding a bicycle, but the non-pedaler is riding on a motorcycle?

My personal opinion is that if a silent and light electrical motor does what you or a sporty professional cyclist can output with his legs should not underly any regulations. That is 2500w peak and 500w constant and about 35km/h.

The tandem argument is just 1 example why teh pedelec system is bogus.

Sure someone can argue that his 5000w ebike is a lycra tandem virtually. :mrgreen:


Why should they be classified and restricted base on power when no other vehicle is?
 
If it didn't have pedals, what would you call it?

And if it did have pedals, what do you call it?
 
Kent said:
If it didn't have pedals, what would you call it?
And if it did have pedals, what do you call it?

In either form it is a bike. eg "It's a nice day, so I'm riding my bike to work." If you want to classify it in a more detailed way with a name, then I'd call it a moped, with or without the pedals. If I was riding behind it then "stinkbike" would be appropriate, or even more detailed "noise polluting stinkbike", but I have no qualms in my discrimination against ICE vehicles, though I use words like stinkbike in only a friendly and joking manner as opposed to the vehemence displayed against scooter ebikes with detachable pedals.
 
This forum must have a secret agenda to destroy the electric vehicle industry because it has separate forum categories for electric bicycles, electric scooters/motorcycles, cars, watercraft and aircraft. What other possible reason could there be for separation and classification of what sort of usage a vehicle might see? Everything is an ebike!

"What do you mean this is an aircraft? It has an electric motor and wheels, THAT MAKES IT AN EBIKE! PERIOD!"

"What do you mean I need a license to fly my ebike!? This is just a low powered ebike! PERIOD!"

"What do you mean I can't go 100mph in a school zone? I just have amazing aerodynamics and the strongest legs in the universe, DON'T TAZE ME BRO! PERIOD!

"That is an awesome ebike you have." "This is a 1967 camaro with 350hp gas engine" "The alternator to start the engine is an electric motor and it has wheels, YOU ARE DRIVING AN EBIKE! PERIOD!"

All these silly people trying to categorize things and stuff.

I hope you don't mind elephants in your neighbors place, that would be discriminatory to complain. If your daughter can have a gerbal than your neighbor can have an elephant. It has legs and fur, ITS A GERBAL! PERIOD! All these jerks trying to stifle the pet industry. It's a conspiracy I tells ya! Legal classifications are evil. Anyone who disagrees is a 'chalo', I am a genius.

P.S. Buy my amazing hub motor, everyone needs it and it has 90..93...94% efficiency. Whats an efficiency curve? Small hub motors are stupid and a waste of time, you need a real bike.

The man always trying to bring you down and stuff.
 
The way I see it, most people cannot identify that thing as a bike in the small window they have when you 'wiz by', so they instantly think scooter.

What if you had one that looked like a motorcycle, but still had pedals? They will treat you like a motorcycle.

If you ONLY care about the law and not about other people's perception, then by all means carry along as you have. But don't expect them to perceive you otherwise.

People DO NOT consult the law books before perceiving and judging. Expecting them to, is ludicrous.

So either get over the fact that they are going to treat you like that or keep out of the bike lane when passing them. Heck, if I pass a biker in the bike lane, I only do so when the car lane is clear and I take the lane.
 
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