A possible Lithium Solution?

EbikeMaui

EbikeMaui

1 kW
Joined
Mar 10, 2007
Messages
447
Dear Sir:

The coming out of safety and stable LFP lithium battery will make our EV dream come true very soon !

What we use is new materials-LFP, which is more robust as inactive materials are added and is safer than LCP series. However, LFP is 30% heavier than LCP.But the price is much cheaper and weight is reasonable for EV.

It is the best safety characteristics, long cycle life (single cell up to 2000 cycles) and good availability. It is very suitable for high discharge rate occasions such as EV (including e-bike, electric scooter, and electric car)....

Since we are the only manufacturers with bulk production in field of Electric motorcycles and ATV,the manufacturers give me very favour price to defeat other suppliers who will follow with LFP very soon.

Utilize LFP character,we also come out 60A big current "Charging Station" which would 30 minutes full charge the scooter. These "Charging Station" would be set up in downtown and each station could charge 6 scooters in the same time.It would make the E-motorcycles more easy and popular.

Come on,persuade your government to purchase these "Charging Stations"and open to public who drive EV,to make the city more clean....

Any technical question,take free to chat with me on my MSN mountain_chen@hotmail.com .

To view more photos in different angle,please come to our website http://erato.en.ec21.com/GC00957286/EEC_Scooter_Gallery.html

To view the Video show of climbing,please come to http://www.e-vehicle.net ,www.erider.cn

best regards

Mountain
 
EbikeMaui said:
Dear Sir:

The coming out of safety and stable LFP lithium battery will make our EV dream come true very soon !

What we use is new materials-LFP, which is more robust as inactive materials are added and is safer than LCP series. However, LFP is 30% heavier than LCP.But the price is much cheaper and weight is reasonable for EV.

It is the best safety characteristics, long cycle life (single cell up to 2000 cycles) and good availability. It is very suitable for high discharge rate occasions such as EV (including e-bike, electric scooter, and electric car)....

Since we are the only manufacturers with bulk production in field of Electric motorcycles and ATV,the manufacturers give me very favour price to defeat other suppliers who will follow with LFP very soon.

Utilize LFP character,we also come out 60A big current "Charging Station" which would 30 minutes full charge the scooter. These "Charging Station" would be set up in downtown and each station could charge 6 scooters in the same time.It would make the E-motorcycles more easy and popular.

Come on,persuade your government to purchase these "Charging Stations"and open to public who drive EV,to make the city more clean....

Any technical question,take free to chat with me on my MSN mountain_chen@hotmail.com .

To view more photos in different angle,please come to our website http://erato.en.ec21.com/GC00957286/EEC_Scooter_Gallery.html

To view the Video show of climbing,please come to http://www.e-vehicle.net ,www.erider.cn

best regards

Mountain
Click to expand...

OK this kinda confuses me now, I thought EbikeMaui is Randy from the old VisforV forum but this post definitely seems to be from an asian person with poor English grammar. As for the LFP lithium batteries, how do they compare to Emoli lithium cells. I know Emolis are also heavier than LCP lithiums but what I like about the Emolis is the fact that they dont need a special charger and BMS. A123 lithiums can not be charged with standard lithium chargers unless mated with an adaptor, I'm assuming LiFePO lithiums to be in the same boat. And do these LFP packs include a BMS? Just curious, for now I've already commited to using Emolis for the project I have in the works.
 
Methinks the above was a reply TO Randy, from a supplier.


:)


P.S. FWIW, I am testing today the Ridgid 24V emolis "in the pack". I have a setup like Jon's and I will report the results later tonight.
 
TylerDurden said:
P.S. FWIW, I am testing today the Ridgid 24V emolis "in the pack". I have a setup like Jon's and I will report the results later tonight.
Click to expand...

Yes please do. I'm thinking of going this way as well. Seems like the most optimal solution, and biggest bang for the buck.
 
maytag -- LFP = LiFeP04 same juice. I prefer LiFe . . ."powered by LiFe"
(probably old news by now, but not in the thread).

LiFe is *almost* the same as A123/E-moli/Altairnano. They all have replaced the carbon/cobalt/manganese of the (cathode or anode?) with other metals (mostly steel).

The difference with the fancy high output batts (e-moli/A123/Altairnano) is the use of nano-based doping materials with this steel. They are optimizing the chemistry for low resistance, high ion conductivity, very high cycle life (no degradation to the cell structure from charge/discharge).

LiFe gives much less peak power, but gives very adequate power, for much much less than nano-doped materials. These batteries are the closest thing to Valence 'Saphion' (Vanadium doped steel) for much less than half the cost.

Thunderstruck measured 14C discharge (280amps from 20 Ahr at 3.2V sagging to about 2.4V) from one of the cells in the Jackelope. Target price is in the ballpark of $3/Ahr @3.2V nom (3.7 -4.2V top of charge, depending on whom you ask).

2,000 cycles claimed at 80% DOD, 3k cycles at 70%.

I notice different manufacturers post the same numbers (probably selling the same battery from some other manufacturer that nobody overseas has seen).

48V (16 cell) 20Ahr pack = ~$1k but lasts about 10 years (to be seen).
48V (Pb) 20Ahr = $200 will be replaced about 10 times during LiFe cycle
means LiFe is half the lifetime cost (and Pb is rapidly rising, expect your local prices to be going up almost as fast as gas).

not to mention, LiFe is rated AT THE C RATE! not C/20. Means 20Ahr of LiFe gets the range of about 40+Ahr of Pb, while being 1/2 the weight and 2/3 the volume of "20Ahr" of Pb.

LiFe is a standout improvement in battery. It's not the MOST power dense, not the MOST energy dense, but it may be the best performer for the dollar over a lifetime.
 
roller said:
48V (16 cell) 20Ahr pack = ~$1k but lasts about 10 years (to be seen).
48V (Pb) 20Ahr = $200 will be replaced about 10 times during LiFe cycle
means LiFe is half the lifetime cost (and Pb is rapidly rising, expect your local prices to be going up almost as fast as gas).
Click to expand...

Can I actually buy one for $1K? or do I need to buy a container full to get that price?
 
I got my confirmation this morning :p

40cm x 20cm x 20cm = 45 lbs - 48v 30ah with BMS and charger.

I'm strapping this into my X5302 Chopper, i will have to mod the frame to accept the pack.. but i want it to be secure so what ever it takes...

There is a bit of a delay in receiving them as they are currently ordered on request.. but for the money.. looks like a good plan so far. Reports later. You can order a single pack. But you have to wait for it to be assembled, tested, and shipped. :wink:

They are 20% larger and heavier than LiMn, but are supposed to last much.. MUCH longer.. remains to be seen.
 
Ypedal said:
I got my confirmation this morning :p

40cm x 20cm x 20cm = 45 lbs - 48v 30ah with BMS and charger.

I'm strapping this into my X5302 Chopper, i will have to mod the frame to accept the pack.. but i want it to be secure so what ever it takes...

There is a bit of a delay in receiving them as they are currently ordered on request.. but for the money.. looks like a good plan so far. Reports later. You can order a single pack. But you have to wait for it to be assembled, tested, and shipped. :wink:

They are 20% larger and heavier than LiMn, but are supposed to last much.. MUCH longer.. remains to be seen.
Click to expand...
http://www.globalsources.com/gsol/I/Lithium-ion/p/sm/1003047522.htm
 

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fechter said:
roller said:
48V (16 cell) 20Ahr pack = ~$1k but lasts about 10 years (to be seen).
48V (Pb) 20Ahr = $200 will be replaced about 10 times during LiFe cycle
means LiFe is half the lifetime cost (and Pb is rapidly rising, expect your local prices to be going up almost as fast as gas).
Click to expand...

Can I actually buy one for $1K? or do I need to buy a container full to get that price?
Click to expand...

This is a price Thunderstruck has quoted a customer for these cells as a battery upgrade in several pocketbikes. It will hold for individual packs, once we feel comfortable selling them. We are certainly abusing them (Jackelope isn't quite abuse, at only 82 amps max draw) with Etek/alltrax combos at about 150-200amps, they are still holding up.
 

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grossly: 12" long, 7" wide, 6" high (w/terminals). 32lbs. 1kWhr.

they fit (almost exactly) in the footprint of the 17-20Ahr SLA (B&B/hawker, whomever), but at 2/3 the height, 1/2 the weight. (1/2 the cost, over lifetime?)

charge to about 60V, discharge to 40 (under some load). voltage sag -- I'm seeing as low as 45V at 4C, but I know i've got some beaten up cells.

Due to an error by the shipping agent, they took a vacation through Mexico where a disppointed customer was jipped of his MP4players. he took it out on the batteries by repacking them with a considerable lack of love. A few thousand miles and shoulder drops from UPS later, we received a sorry looking squarish ball of tape holding the lithium organs from spilling all over the place. most have dents in the stainless steel cases, many broken shrink wrap, some busted vent caps. What's a tester to do? throw them in a box and hit them with 200 amps. :wink:
 
EbikeMaui said:
Dear Sir:
The coming out of safety and stable LFP lithium battery will make our EV dream come true very soon !
<SNIP>
Any technical question,take free to chat with me on my MSN mountain_chen@hotmail.com .
<SNIP>
best regards
Mountain
Click to expand...


From Thu Sep 28, 2006:
Re: Costco Scooter???? MOUNTAIN CHEN NO!!!!!

> See chinese scooter
<http> 5d96a0aa9&act=ST&f=23&t=4697&st=15> on V

OMG! PLEASE SAVE YOURSELF THE TROUBLE!!! I'm so mad at even seeing
his name that I'm literally feeling sick and dizzy.

I live in Costa Rica and was looking for a business idea to support my
family here (single mom). I'm not a businesswoman by nature so please
don't give me grief about sending the money before receiving the
product. I know it was naive and dumb.

I chose Mountain Chen because he had a variety of products and it
seemed he had the best specs. BAD CHOICE! He told me he was not
doing business with anyone else here in Costa Rica. Turned out he
was. I sent him over $6000 for a sampler and I never received the
products or my money back from him. He was mean and rude after
receiving my money and refused to return my funds. He called me
stupid in one e-mail and made threats about not receiving my money or
the products if I reported him to the Chinese export company where I
found his information. I was pregnant at the time and my daughter is
now 17 mos. so this has not been resolved with him in almost two years!

The guys that did receive their order had all kinds of problems with
Chen as well. Several of the scooters burned out after only a couple
of days, the material they were made out of was cheap and parts kept
falling off the scooters and the atv's (electric models). Chen made
promises that he didn't keep. One of the guys said that coming down
hill on one of Chen's scooters was "scary" because it felt like the
thing was going to vibrate apart.

I still have every e-mail between Chen and I as I'm STILL trying to
figure out if there is any way of recovering my funds. I would be
happy to send the correspondence between Chen and I to anyone interested.

Nothing but profanities are coming to mind now and I know this is a
family board so zip, that's it; nothing more to say.

Athena





Original URL here:
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/zappy/message/56074
 
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