Conversion Honda motorcycle to electric 96v - 8000w hubmotor - 6.3kWh

[swiftyds]

Just taken exactly the same approach on my conversion - can say for sure that have two adapter plates machined the same works fine swapping one around for the other side of the swing arm.

I also designed axle flat slots to be vertical so phase wires exit in line with swingarm.

 

[Lightrule]

Update:

Got the suspension units made last week, had to get them adjusted a few times before they would actually fit. I'm not a 100% satisfied with them yet so I might redesign them and have some new units made. For instance, I don't have a lot of room on the outside of the units, where the axle is sticking out, to apply the nut and locknut. Now that they're installed and the motor seated inside the swingarm it looks super badass though! Tomorrow I'll reintall the swingarm into the motorcycle and post an update again. Can't wait to see how that looks!

I also made the 96v test battery (26s4p) so I can start hooking things up like the motor and the controller. I have absolutely no idea how to do all this but I'll try to figure it out the coming days. Due to corona lockdown it's hard for me and my buddy (the electrical engineer) to meet-up and do things together, so I'm kind of on my own in that regard. Will have to research and experiment a bit more that expected by myself. Any help and tips are super welcome. Also I'll try not to fry myself :lol:

Here's the pictures:

test battery - 26s4p - 96volt - made with Vruzend V2.1 kit - LG 18650 2850mAh cells - this was so much fun to make (yet a little bit scary!)




One of the suspension units (made from stainless steel). Got two identical ones but mirrored. I love the look and feel of these things.

Finally got the motor inside the swingarm. I cut off 5 centimeters of swingarm on both sides.

As visible: not much space on the outer end of the axle where it leaves the stainless steel unit to apply a locknut and regular nut.

Would this suffice to replace the nut and locknut that came with the motor (which take up too much space)? This would probably fit on the axle-end.

The unit on the right is not actually like this (it's reversed). Just had it this way to test it out when I took the picture. I'll shoot a better picture tomorrow as it sits in the motorcycle.

That's it for now. More to come tomorrow. Thanks!

 

[Lightrule]

Just taken exactly the same approach on my conversion - can say for sure that have two adapter plates machined the same works fine swapping one around for the other side of the swing arm.

I also designed axle flat slots to be vertical so phase wires exit in line with swingarm.

That looks great! May I ask what kind of nut are you using on the outer end of the axle? Also are you using spacers on the inside?

I'm using vertical holes instead of horizontal, figuring that it would make it easier to apply and remove the bolts that go through.

Cheers!

 

[tylerwatts]

Update:

As visible: not much space on the outer end of the axle where it leaves the stainless steel unit to apply a locknut and regular nut.

Hi Lightrule
In this picture there's larger flats on the large axle. I believe these should be the anti-rotation surfaces to resist the torque of your motor. And your swingarm looks too wide. I recommend you make a stepped bracket either side to locate onto these parts of the axle both sides. Fit the blocks to the axle then slide the blocks and wheel into swingarm to bolt it.

But looking good so far.

Cheers
Tyler

 

[swiftyds]

That looks great! May I ask what kind of nut are you using on the outer end of the axle? Also are you using spacers on the inside?

I'm using vertical holes instead of horizontal, figuring that it would make it easier to apply and remove the bolts that go through.

Cheers!

Yes I’ve had to use a spacer of approx 7mm on the disc brake side - the Hub motor came with a couple of spacers (approx 3mm iirc) but I had one machined up the correct size. Used one of the 3mm spacers supplied on the other side of the axle.

Nut is that supplied with the motor - torqued tightly bit I also need to work out a way to get a locking nut on

 

[Lightrule]

Update:

As visible: not much space on the outer end of the axle where it leaves the stainless steel unit to apply a locknut and regular nut.

Hi Lightrule
In this picture there's larger flats on the large axle. I believe these should be the anti-rotation surfaces to resist the torque of your motor. And your swingarm looks too wide. I recommend you make a stepped bracket either side to locate onto these parts of the axle both sides. Fit the blocks to the axle then slide the blocks and wheel into swingarm to bolt it.

But looking good so far.

Cheers
Tyler

Hey Tyler, thanks for the comment! If I understand you correctly it would look something like this?

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[tylerwatts]

Update:

As visible: not much space on the outer end of the axle where it leaves the stainless steel unit to apply a locknut and regular nut.

Hi Lightrule
In this picture there's larger flats on the large axle. I believe these should be the anti-rotation surfaces to resist the torque of your motor. And your swingarm looks too wide. I recommend you make a stepped bracket either side to locate onto these parts of the axle both sides. Fit the blocks to the axle then slide the blocks and wheel into swingarm to bolt it.

But looking good so far.

Cheers
Tyler

Hey Tyler, thanks for the comment! If I understand you correctly it would look something like this?

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Yes something like that, and fitting over the very large flat on the shaft not over the threaded axle section only.

I would probably machine the block thick and make a recess the shaft fits into and the axle located in. I tried to sketch on my phone quickly, sorry it is so poor. I'll sketch by hand tomorrow and photo it. Hope this makes some sense though...

Cheers
Tyler

 

[tylerwatts]

Let's try again.

The large flat of the main shaft I pointed to above needs to locate in the block.

Also, I agree with swiftyds's design in clamping the swingarm horizontally. This will give better surface area and flex for clamping force. I'd use a high tensile 10mm bolt. And to support this, since the block is longer again in my sketch for the angled section, I'd trim the swingarm a little more to remove the last remnants of the axle slot and make room for bolting.

PS: you can use this bolting for securing the brake torque arm also, use the forward most bolt and bolt through both swingarm and torque arm together. I'd probably boot the swingarm then sandwich the torque arm with a second nut ie bolt through swingarm then but then torque arm then second nut. Nuts act as locking mechanism to each other as well then.

I apologise if I'm upsetting your build plan but your original design worries me and I'm confident unless you have a separate torque arm fixing where I say, that axle is just going to strip and spin, possibly even snap off the way you show it. Perhaps I'm missing something.

Cheers
Tyler

 

[swiftyds]

I did exactly that Tyler in terms of using the second bolt for the adapter plate on the disc brake side to act as the forward support post for the brake caliper bracket.

Just needed a slimmer nut due to the gap between the bigger disc brake I fitted on my hub motor and the caliper bracket.

Only just finishing securing all the wiring on mine and with lockdown here in UK going to be a while before I can do any meaningful road testing.

 

[tylerwatts]

I did exactly that Tyler in terms of using the second bolt for the adapter plate on the disc brake side to act as the forward support post for the brake caliper bracket.

Just needed a slimmer nut due to the gap between the bigger disc brake I fitted on my hub motor and the caliper bracket.

Only just finishing securing all the wiring on mine and with lockdown here in UK going to be a while before I can do any meaningful road testing.

Nice. No reason not to go for a solo ride on lock down, no socialising or significant travel involved. I purchased a new bike this week and am going on maiden voyage today. Good luck.

Sorry for cross-chat in your thread Lightrule.

Cheers
Tyler

 

[tylerwatts]

Lightrule

I saw in your or swiftyds pics a small plate behind the nut in the axle that looks like it might be a torque arm. This is what I'm thinking of when I redrew your blocks, doing this function. You'd have a lot stronger design if integrating that function into the blocks like I drew, I hadn't realised this little bracket might be performing that function.

But s long as that is properly secured I suppose it should be ok. Hope you figure it out and I'll wait to see what you decide.

Cheers
Tyler

 

[Lightrule]

Let's try again.

The large flat of the main shaft I pointed to above needs to locate in the block.

Also, I agree with swiftyds's design in clamping the swingarm horizontally. This will give better surface area and flex for clamping force. I'd use a high tensile 10mm bolt. And to support this, since the block is longer again in my sketch for the angled section, I'd trim the swingarm a little more to remove the last remnants of the axle slot and make room for bolting.

PS: you can use this bolting for securing the brake torque arm also, use the forward most bolt and bolt through both swingarm and torque arm together. I'd probably boot the swingarm then sandwich the torque arm with a second nut ie bolt through swingarm then but then torque arm then second nut. Nuts act as locking mechanism to each other as well then.

I apologise if I'm upsetting your build plan but your original design worries me and I'm confident unless you have a separate torque arm fixing where I say, that axle is just going to strip and spin, possibly even snap off the way you show it. Perhaps I'm missing something.

Cheers
Tyler

This is insanely valuable feedback, thank you! I will incorporate this is in the build. Don't worry about changing any of my build plans, this is all new to me so I'm considering it as a big learning experience with lots of iterations anyways :wink:

 

[Lightrule]

I did exactly that Tyler in terms of using the second bolt for the adapter plate on the disc brake side to act as the forward support post for the brake caliper bracket.

Just needed a slimmer nut due to the gap between the bigger disc brake I fitted on my hub motor and the caliper bracket.

Only just finishing securing all the wiring on mine and with lockdown here in UK going to be a while before I can do any meaningful road testing.

Thanks Swiftyd, I love the idea of removing redundancies by combining these functionalities. Would it be possible for you to make a photograph of what this looks like in your build? Cheers!

 

[swiftyds]

Thanks Swiftyd, I love the idea of removing redundancies by combining these functionalities. Would it be possible for you to make a photograph of what this looks like in your build? Cheers!

Here’s a couple of pictures - the bolt supporting the calliper bracket needs shortening which I’ve not got round to doing yet hence the couple of washers padding it out on the swingarm.

Hope this helps.

 

[tylerwatts]

Nice pic swiftyds. Can you post the same pic of the other side to show how it's mounted and that torque arm is fitted? Thanks

Cheers
Tyler

 

[swiftyds]

Will do Tyler once the torque arm is finished. Been focusing on getting the controller and battery mounted to the frame and all the wiring secured.

 

[stormizer]

The axle issue and solution in the thread makes my shitty solutions seems like a potential hazard –despite all seems fine for now. All good point, thanks guys.

FYI...
I am running the same motor with different controller (APT AE96600, another drama).
Using LifePo4 (bigger, heavier than Li-ion) at 96v nominal at around 5kw capacity.
Close enough to OP's target specs.

At around 60-80kph cruise, with occasional burst... one can expect 50-60km range.
With economy riding (40-50kph), it goes for about 120km.
This is my first ebike and I learn that these electrics is very sensitive to riding style –-probably due to the fact that 2/3 of the power is not wasted as heat weather you ride eco or sport. Its almost like as if a difference of 10kph cruise, will suck double the Amps (exaggeration, but close enough).

Performance wise..
You should expect the same, if not better acceleration than the original 400cc.
My top speed is.. unknown. At 110kph the system is still accelerating.
Seems like I don't have enough balls or trust to push further.

*Hopefully above "review" can help motivate OP to keep going
*Thanks for the anti-torque info, I will mod mine soon

 

[Lightrule]

Time for a torque arm update. Created a new design based on some of the feedback. Here's what it looks like. What do you guys think?

I believe this way the thicker part of the axle, which is supposed to handle all of the torque, is encapsuled in the torque arm. Also it makes for plenty of space to add the provided nuts.







Let me know your thoughts :thumb:

 

[tylerwatts]

Time for a torque arm update. Created a new design based on some of the feedback. Here's what it looks like. What do you guys think?

I believe this way the thicker part of the axle, which is supposed to handle all of the torque, is encapsuled in the torque arm. Also it makes for plenty of space to add the provided nuts.







Let me know your thoughts :thumb:

That looks ideal Lightrule! Nice job. It means you must assemble the blocks onto the motor before installing the blocks and motor into the swingarm but this is fine as you don't need to adjust for tensions etc. Nice job.

Cheers
Tyler

 

[swiftyds]

Looks good.

My adapter plates also had to be fitted to the hub motor first before slotting into the swingarm. I deliberately made them a fight fit for the box section of the swingarm as I didn’t want any movement once bolted up - I needed to use a soft faced mallet to get them in but approach works well.

 

[boogiemate]

I have the same motor with the same specs. I'm planning on using the stock torque locking brackets. Is there a reason why you guys are making your own instead of using the stock ones?

 

[swiftyds]

Swingarm is too wide so needs the plates to step width down. As plates are being used they can also be made with the axle flat machined in.

 

[tylerwatts]

Plus these blocks will be slot stronger than the steel plates that come with the motor, thicker and larger surface area for the axle to locate on. Plus they make fitting the motor into the box section swing arm lot simpler and stronger. It's probably the best solution for fitting a hub motor into a standard box section swingarm in my opinion. And sound from an engineering perspective.

Cheers
Tyler

 

[j bjork]

You make nice parts, but I really think you should make it so you can clamp the axle in place. Even if it is tight now, it will probably start to move sooner or later.
I would like something like your first design, but with clamps on the inside. Then you would have something that still holds the wheel in place if something happens with the clamps.
You can take a look in my "stealth bomber" thread. It is not the design I think you should use, but you can get an idea of what can happen and a solution.

I think you should make your dropouts thicker, but mill out a chunk on the back.(but leave a little material like on your early design) Then have a new block that you bolt from the back, with bolts over and under the axle if that makes sense :?
I cant really draw, so it is difficult to show what I mean.
It dosent really matter if you cant fit locknuts etc, as long as you can fit some kind of nuts. They will only have to hold it together a little, the clamps will lock the axle in place.

 

[tylerwatts]

Hi bjork
I understand your concept, similar to motorcycle front axles. I'll try sketch it.

Cheers
Tyler