Tesla model D?

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macribs
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Re: Tesla model D?

Post by macribs » Oct 10, 2014 5:31 pm

liveforphysics wrote:As a guy who has sat in the drivers seat of a Tesla Model S for >12hrs a day for a few days in a row, I have no idea what folks are talking about with respect to them being uncomfortable.

I have never experienced a more comfortable driving experience, and this is coming from a guy who has driven Rolls Royce's and Bentley's etc.

If you don't want a stupid fast car that doesn't spew carcinogens into the faces of everyone around you, you're always free to choose some dinosaur powered hunk of shit to drive.
Well we are all different and have different body measurements, height, build and weight. What is comfy for one might feel like a bad of nails to another. And for me doing a little inspired driving on that 8 hour drive, with European standard for roads with twist and turns every 100 yards, sliding around in a leather seat with no side support was not a good experience.

Well luckily the seat issues is more or less mute, Four Sixteen is a proof of concept that shows the sensors and airbags will work even after you take your seats to be tailor made. But it shouldn't have to be that way. There should just another thick in a box in the contract. Boom. Here is your optional seats. In fact, the highest earnings any car manufacturer have is on their option list. Last E-class I had it was like 6K $ extra to get the bigger screen for the navi. Inside there where electronics for like a 100$. When customers enter the showroom and are in a shopping mood - pls let them shop. That is salesman 101.

Btw why are so many Tesla owners getting all defensive when others have negative comments of any part of the car? It feels for me like many owners means you either gotta love it like your firstborn with all its flaws and praise it nevertheless or bugger of from the scene and go drive some old gasoline gulper.

I've had many cars over the years. Mostly sedans or station wagons and mostly european brands. With all kinds of engines. Some fully loaded others not so much. Bu tI can honestly say that I have never felt the need to take the stand for any car I ever owned. Some guys hated the 535 diesel I had. Claiming it was too good a car to be stuck with a diesel. Couldn't care less. I do like the BMW high revving straight 6 petrol engine sound. But that sound i snot a deciding factor when getting an everyday car. With all the driving I did at the time a diesel was a better choice for me.

I was in the Norwegian Tesla showroom once, asking for the 4wd version, to try to confirm all the rumors floating. And I actually got ripped a new a hole by two Tesla owners strutting the showroom. They got all mad and told me if I didn't like it I could just fuxx off and get another car, then they made jokes about ICE and had a good time. What a couple of ass wipes. Sad thing is I got so totally shocked by their "attack" that I could not say anything.

Edited: Oh damn what a long rant. Bros don't drink and post. I did and look at it. :oops:
Last edited by macribs on Oct 11, 2014 8:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Tesla model D?

Post by Hillhater » Oct 10, 2014 7:20 pm

liveforphysics wrote: I have never experienced a more comfortable driving experience, and this is coming from a guy who has driven Rolls Royce's and Bentley's etc. .
...up until that point , i respected your judgement. :o
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Re: Tesla model D?

Post by Punx0r » Oct 11, 2014 5:22 am

Just another thought - the following quote is from a review of the Model S by Autocar:
The Tesla Model S can’t sustain being flat out for very long, however. For short bursts of full-power acceleration, the electric powertrain works brilliantly. But we couldn’t complete one flying lap of the dry handling circuit before the battery, inverter and electric motor tripped into safe mode and cut peak output by at least 50 per cent.
How is the battery to cope with two motors? I believe it was an 85 kWh model.

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Re: Tesla model D?

Post by macribs » Oct 11, 2014 10:19 am

Punx0r wrote:Just another thought - the following quote is from a review of the Model S by Autocar:
The Tesla Model S can’t sustain being flat out for very long, however. For short bursts of full-power acceleration, the electric powertrain works brilliantly. But we couldn’t complete one flying lap of the dry handling circuit before the battery, inverter and electric motor tripped into safe mode and cut peak output by at least 50 per cent.
How is the battery to cope with two motors? I believe it was an 85 kWh model.

I will assume the battery will get an easier task with dual motors. Because running motors to the max will not happen as often as it will with a single motor just because there is so much more power in the Dual. And when motors can purr and twirl at their favorite RPM for longer periods in Dual setup each motor will consume way less current then what is the case with flat out with wide open throttle.

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Re: Tesla model D?

Post by Punx0r » Oct 11, 2014 1:51 pm

Model S is ~400HP Model SD is ~700HP. Load on battery will be increased by 75%.

700HP is 525kW

525kW / 85kWh = 6.18C discharge for the battery
liveforphysics wrote: I have never experienced a more comfortable driving experience, and this is coming from a guy who has driven Rolls Royce's and Bentley's etc.
Irreverent, but:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IZO5OBcn3A

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Re: Tesla model D?

Post by 7circle » Oct 12, 2014 10:41 am

Thanks for Video Link...
May held himself well as a confudled copilot.

I want to see A MODEL S P85D do a track like that !!!!!
With MUSK as Co-PilOT.

:mrgreen:

This Dual Motor is mammoth.... ( still reflect that the new porsche Hybrids are Electric AWD.)

Efficiency gains is spread of torque across more ... CONTROLLER / MOTOR / GEARS / DIFF / RUBBER is a winner.
I'm sure not just Highway cruising range has improved.
Performance Range would be bettter too ... for S 85 and S 60.

I can understand Musks embarrasment that the car can drive autnomously but it can't plug its self in ... yet.

I wonder whether cars with Autonomus function will need a special sticker on the REGO plate.
What a can of worms... for the USUAL SUSPECTS of oil industry lobiests.

Talk about Disruptive Technology.

Great Stuff

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Re: Tesla model D?

Post by speedmd » Oct 12, 2014 11:52 am

The EV will certainly have many advantages in the drive line on the shorter runs, but it does not have anywhere near the top speed or range. Best to keep it all in perspective and let it develop as a suitable luxury commuter until the range and top speed issues are on par.

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Re: Tesla model D?

Post by Hillhater » Oct 12, 2014 9:52 pm

macribs wrote: Probably the fastest 4WD system in the world. Nothing will even come close to the reaction time of Tesla's 4WD. As all others I think is mechanical or even electro hydraulic.
Nope !
the Merc SLS Electric has been doing that for some time with genuine 4 wheel torque vectoring.. which the Tesla cannot do.
What’s most intriguing is the way the SLS Electric Drive doles out its drive and the effect it has on the handling. With an individual motor placed at each wheel, the first series production Mercedes-Benz electric car to be offered to private customers is permanently driven by all four wheels.
An advanced power electronics system keeps tabs on traction levels and uses a torque vectoring system on each axle to juggle it accordingly. The result is unparalleled levels of agility and, if you’re prepared, lurid oversteer.
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Re: Tesla model D?

Post by macribs » Oct 13, 2014 1:21 am

Hillhater wrote:
macribs wrote: Probably the fastest 4WD system in the world. Nothing will even come close to the reaction time of Tesla's 4WD. As all others I think is mechanical or even electro hydraulic.
Nope !
the Merc SLS Electric has been doing that for some time with genuine 4 wheel torque vectoring.. which the Tesla cannot do.
What’s most intriguing is the way the SLS Electric Drive doles out its drive and the effect it has on the handling. With an individual motor placed at each wheel, the first series production Mercedes-Benz electric car to be offered to private customers is permanently driven by all four wheels.
An advanced power electronics system keeps tabs on traction levels and uses a torque vectoring system on each axle to juggle it accordingly. The result is unparalleled levels of agility and, if you’re prepared, lurid oversteer.

Hm didn't know that, is that the same 4wd system Brabus is using? With 4 hubs - one in each corner?
Oh well, the Merc SLS is in another league anyway. Sleak two seater at quadruple the price of Tesla or a family "station wagon" with only 2 motors - for most of us the pick is simple. One of them we can just lust over ;)

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Re: Tesla model D?

Post by Hillhater » Oct 13, 2014 2:12 am

macribs wrote: , is that the same 4wd system Brabus is using? With 4 hubs - one in each corner? ;)
No , not the brabus hub motors.
All custom, 4 motors all mounted inboard with shaft drive to each wheel
http://www.mercedes-amg.com/webspecial/ ... ve/eng.php
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Re: Tesla model D?

Post by macribs » Oct 13, 2014 5:15 am

Hillhater wrote:
macribs wrote: , is that the same 4wd system Brabus is using? With 4 hubs - one in each corner? ;)
No , not the brabus hub motors.
All custom, 4 motors all mounted inboard with shaft drive to each wheel
http://www.mercedes-amg.com/webspecial/ ... ve/eng.php
Thx 4 link!
Hm. Never did read much of it really. I just knew it was out of reach for me. Both in a practical asset but of course much more so financially. Well lets hope Merc decides to use that on other cars as well. I for sure would love an all electric 4WD E-class saloon.
It is strange really, them being so tight with Tesla yet they don't really push electric other on the tiny B class. And that is a girly car.

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Re: Tesla model D?

Post by Punx0r » Oct 13, 2014 6:37 am

Mercedes has had a good record in the past of filtering down technology from its luxury products to more everyday ones. The S-class is a good example: Some say that if you want to know what equipment your average car will have in 10 year's time, look at what's fitted to an S-class Merc today.

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Re: Tesla model D?

Post by macribs » Oct 15, 2014 4:23 am

Tesla just got whipped and biatch slapped too. Close to 700 hp will not cut it anymore ;)
920 HP 4wd electric Quant anyone? 0-100 km/t 2.8 seconds. Top speed of 380 km/t. And a back seat of course.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 91#p958891

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Re: Tesla model D?

Post by Doctorbass » Oct 15, 2014 10:29 am

macribs wrote:Tesla just got whipped and biatch slapped too. Close to 700 hp will not cut it anymore ;)
920 HP 4wd electric Quant anyone? 0-100 km/t 2.8 seconds. Top speed of 380 km/t. And a back seat of course.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 91#p958891
Intersting.. but have you looked at the RIMAC :shock:

Anyway.. TESLA is at least offering them on large scale.. I'm not sure the Quant or Rimac does...

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Re: Tesla model D?

Post by edcastrovalley » Oct 15, 2014 10:53 am

The seat thing is a very strange issue to me. My wife says she hates my Prius seats and would not accept a Prius even if I gave it to her yet, she'll jump in my car in a heartbeat if I'm going somewhere. Strange. I know Prius seats are probably just Toyota Corolla seats but, I find them very comfortable even when the car was brand new. I wouldn't hesitate to move the seats to my next car, a Leaf, Tesla or whatever although I think those seat would be just fine...

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Re: Tesla model D?

Post by macribs » Oct 15, 2014 11:17 am

Rimac, is it even more then a prototype? Been hearing about it for years. Seeing sneak previous in various magazines.
I even think there was few videos a while back. Still I don't think you can't even buy that car. I sure like their concept - lets hope it is more then vaporware - guess the same goes for Quant as well.

Tesla is delivering world wide. And are really the only mans e-car at the moment. Leaf are all good from a to b if distance ain't to far.
But I would hate being spotted in a Leaf. Far from a manly ride.

I think there new AWD MS will get huge numbers and even more hard core fans. I must say I am kind of tempted myself. Luckily the P85D has a high price tag even with Norwegian Tax and VAT benefits. So it will not be an impulse thing on a slow
Tuesday so to speak. I just keep thinking about the e-grin in that new AWD P85D. :mrgreen:

And even those terrible seats can be beefed up without the help of Elon Musk.

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Re: Tesla model D?

Post by parabellum » Oct 15, 2014 11:43 am

macribs wrote:Tesla just got whipped and biatch slapped too. Close to 700 hp will not cut it anymore ;)
920 HP 4wd electric Quant anyone? 0-100 km/t 2.8 seconds. Top speed of 380 km/t. And a back seat of course.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 91#p958891
Found interesting picture to this theme.
waldorohmryv7u8bsfp8.jpg
waldorohmryv7u8bsfp8.jpg (39.59 KiB) Viewed 1973 times

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Re: Tesla model D?

Post by Hillhater » Oct 15, 2014 4:36 pm

macribs wrote: Tesla is delivering world wide. And are really the only mans e-car at the moment..
You keep ignoring that Merc SLS ... :wink:
Audi R8 Etron ?
...VW golf GTE ?
..and the BMW i3 would not embarrass most guys !
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Re: Tesla model D?

Post by parabellum » Oct 15, 2014 6:10 pm

Hillhater wrote:
macribs wrote: Tesla is delivering world wide. And are really the only mans e-car at the moment..
You keep ignoring that Merc SLS ... :wink:
Audi R8 Etron ?
...VW golf GTE ?
..and the BMW i3 would not embarrass most guys !
Only thing is that....Tesla beats every one of them in almost every aspect.(HP in the SLS are more but then again 0-60 in 3.7sec???)
It is sad to compare them all to Leaf. :(

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Re: Tesla model D?

Post by Hillhater » Oct 15, 2014 7:20 pm

We could debate performance , cost , availability, seat comfort, color range, etc etc etc..
..but the point was simply that there are other all electric "mens" cars available

There are still some serious questions as to how that 500kw performance affects the Teslas pack !
Even the std P85 is known to dial back the power after a few max power starts.
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Re: Tesla model D?

Post by Dauntless » Oct 16, 2014 1:35 am

I think the point is you have to stop expecting the Tesla to be every bit as good as a Ferrari Enzo, et. al.

You have to get it straight they'll keep coming up with cars that can do what no ELECTRIC car has done before, but there'll still be shortcomings. The Tesla batteries overheating in 3 minutes at the 'Ring, etc. Took two minutes longer than the electric Toyota racecar. The only way you'll ever have any fun with this is if you RELAX.



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Re: Tesla model D?

Post by liveforphysics » Oct 16, 2014 5:17 pm

The new generation 85kWh packs must be using a different cell. The 416hp limitation on the former p85 was battery discharge current limited.

The new p85 is 470hp. The new p85d is > 680hp.

There are no public Panasonic 18650s capable of that power level while still being able to reach 85kWh without adding additional cells (which wasn't done).

This means we have no idea what the temperature performance of this pack looks like. Maybe these cells can handle continous 7C discharge.
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Re: Tesla model D?

Post by Hillhater » Oct 16, 2014 6:17 pm

liveforphysics wrote:The new generation 85kWh packs must be using a different cell.
....... Maybe these cells can handle continous 7C discharge.
Whilst I would love for this to be true, ( a 3+ Ahr, 7C, 18650 cell ) , don't you think Tesla would have promoted this as another critical advance in their technology for the industry, and answer a known limitation to the existing pack performance ?
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Re: Tesla model D?

Post by liveforphysics » Oct 21, 2014 4:41 pm

Hillhater wrote:
liveforphysics wrote:The new generation 85kWh packs must be using a different cell.
....... Maybe these cells can handle continous 7C discharge.
Whilst I would love for this to be true, ( a 3+ Ahr, 7C, 18650 cell ) , don't you think Tesla would have promoted this as another critical advance in their technology for the industry, and answer a known limitation to the existing pack performance ?
No I don't think they would mention it.

Also it seems there is evidence of Tesla upgrading the P85 midyear and mentioning nothing about it.

The most recent delivered batch of p85's have been something huge like 0.3-0.5sec faster in the quarter mile than the previous versions could do it. Higher trap speeds as well.

The performance of first gen p85's was a matter of battery limits both in temp and voltage sag.

The battery didn't get any higher capacity, yet now they are able to draw much much more power from it.

What do those clues tell you?
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Each mutagen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for reproductive genetic defects in your children.

Each engine start sprays them into a shared atmosphere which includes beings not offered an opportunity to consent accepting these cancer experiences and defective genetics life experiences.

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