Turnigy HXT Powered Custom Cruiser Worklog

Turnigy HXT Powered Custom Cruiser Worklog

Time has come to build myself another e-bike! a TWO WHEEL* e-bike even!!

Some may or may not have already seen the design i have entered into the Free single stage drive "Contest"

This will be the worklog for that build!

I see some members here idea of a "custom build" is to start with a pile of battery cells then
2-3 pages of assembling the packs and fitting the BMS etc etc etc then bolt on a hub motor:-S...
bout as interesting and exciting to me as watching paintdry...no offence intended SO...
You wont see that here i can guarantee you that! ill be using 5000mah 22v Lipo packs when
the bikes done...that it for battery info until i purchase batteries in a month or twos time..<--YES Deecanio I WILLZ finally be "GangSta"

The e-bike i have in mind is a low slung stretched cruiser design with linear actuators raising
and lowering a set of stabiliser wheels too keep the bike upright whilst transferring to
and from the bike from my wheelchair. The bike will have operational pedals
as such my feet will need to be strapped to the pedals and the stabiliser wheels used
when starting and stopping...

I will be fabricating the frame from scratch & if all goes well it will vaguely resemble this--->



The motor (i have) is the Turnigy HXT 130-->


(additional glue will be applied to magnets and bearings replaced)

I picked this up Friday from a fella (Joe) that spotted my trike video on YouTube and got interested in building an e-bike...he has since decided
a motorcycle (bobber) is the direction he is going to take, the HXT was bought for $AU150 NEVER USED..

So i have the motor...i still require to purchase ESC, servo driver and a BEC...I am leaning towards
the Sentilons ESC i'm not as insane as Liveforphysics (any more anywayz) so i'm hoping i wont have the 8in flames shooting out the unit as
in Luke's case haha... BEC...no idea haven't seen one capable of running on 44v yet worse comes to worse
i guess a battery hooked directly to the ESC will suffice, no biggy will work that out when the time comes.

i think the servo tester i'll go with what Mr Recumpence SIR sells...waiting to hear back from Matt on this and
a single stage drive...If you have a suitable BEC also Matt i would be interested in price/avaiability/freight charges ...

Today I picked up the tubing and mild steel plate I will use for constructing the custom frame-->



Larger OD tube is 35mm the smaller is 21mm



Large OD tube has 2mm wall thickness...Smaller OD tube is 3mm<--smaller to be used for the rear half of frame.
Total cost for tubing $AU45

I also went out to Bills Machinery AWESOME place
officially now my fav establishment I could spend days there browsing, if they ever need a
place for an Aussie version of Junkyard Wars (Scrapheap Challenge for the English members)
Bills is the place!! I picked up a 10in 'V' pulley that will require machining to suit 5mm pitch flat belt,
I have spoken to a good mate of mine and he said he will take it too his work and turn it
down on the lathe for me--->



I shall then add teeth to it in the same manner Matt (1000watt) has done on his pulley for the cruiser. Using spare belt, release
agent and epoxy. Matt also picked up a 21tooth pulley for me online (see pic of motor)
when he ordered a spare for himself...I'm hoping to swap this for the sprocket Matt (Recumpence) puts
on the reduction drive unit...

I plan to start the fabrication of the frame tomorrow. First things first a frame jig will be knocked up
to 'hold' the head tube, the two bottom brackets and rear axle drop-outs.
This will likely take best part of the day, i shall return with the pics of the days activities...

As always i hope all that view this thread get something from it, if anyone
has any questions OR ideas please feel free to chip in.

KiM

* indicates 2 wheels PLUS 2 additional retracting stabilising wheels

Hi KiM,
You may want to try and mount Halls into or around the motor and use one of the sensored controllers that are kicking about, it is a lot less bother than messing with the rc controllers ( a lot cheaper too ). After much playing around with rc controllers they are still lacking something for use on bikes ( they not always startup 100% of the time from a standing start which I'm guessing you will need :wink: )

Yeah cheers for that gwhy, i will however be sticking with the RC components as im familiar with them from my electric RC heli days.
Anywayz...Is it even possibly to mount hall sensors on an outrunner? want to get them spaced evenly be some wicked vibration there other wise wouldnt there?

I been out in my workshop cleaning clearing re-organising
things today now im knackered hahaa...Moving my half finished CNC machine on my own nearly killed me frock its heavy, of course getting it down the ramp to undercover veranda the stand i had it on collapsed half way down the ramp trapping me, effectively blocking my way back into workshop lol comedy of errors it was, anywayz....Now i have a nice tidy shop ready to mess up first thing in the morning. I simply HATE starting anything new when crap is lying everywhere from other projects, organisation is the key to success!

I have heard back from Mr R on the status of drive units, unfortunately my eagerness to pick up the pulley yesterday has left me few dollars short, what funds i have now have been transferred to PayPal account remainder shall be paid in ~12 days which means the drive unit is going to be a little delayed, Matt advised it takes around 2 weeks get the drive ready for shipping, i have advised Matt i will also be requiring BEC and servo tester so those to components are now sorted also! in future i will also grab a quality ESC from Matt for now though i shall make do with the Turnigy ESC..... shall press on with what we can do now, that is frame fab..ghetto "one off" frame jig pics coming soon ...

Back soon chaps

KiM

p.s Spoke to my good mate again last night RE: turning down the V Pulley to suit flat 5mm pitched belt, he is picking me up Saturday or Sunday and heading off to his work so i can use the lathe there BIG THANKS to Noeeeeeel for his time already helping me workout the gearing Also spoke with Matt (1000watt) regarding adding 'epoxy teeth' to the pulley, he still has the spare (cut) belt from when he epoxied teeth to his pulley, so he's loaning me the belt (and my release agent i gave him) to complete the job on my pulley. We are also planing another verge collection very soon as collection is on up in my area Matt already scoring a HIGH end mid 1980s road racing frame/fork last week when we went out, he told me last night he has now also found brakes and hubs online to complete the restoration hes very pleased!

AussieJester said:

Yeah cheers for that gwhy, i will however be sticking with the RC components as im familiar with them from my electric RC heli days.
Anywayz...Is it even possibly to mount hall sensors on an outrunner? want to get them spaced evenly be some wicked vibration there other wise wouldnt there?

Click to expand...

It was very easy to mount halls onto the motor, I went for the mounting them around the out side of the motor, others have put them in the slots inside the motor. As regards vibration the motors runs so much smoother with halls fitted and also starts up better. When you come to mount your motor it may pay to leave a 1/4 inch clearance around the motor this way it will give you all the options should you want to fit halls. just a thought

Well im glad its worked out for you but im happy to use RC components never had issues in the past with RC ESC don't foresee i will now, what RC ESC have you tried before changing to brushless speed controller and what controller did you buy? was it more than 100 bucks thats all im paying for RC ESC...

KiM

the sensored controller I bought cost £22ukp but needs some mods made to it ( better fets and maybe some other mods ), I have tried 4 different types of rc esc all cheapo 100A ones. 2 of the cheapo ones were the same on closer inspection ( except one was £9.00ukp ( but had 3 caps )and the other was £19.00ukp ( only 2 caps ) ) but had the same fets and brains and both worked well for general e-bike stuff ( with a few mods ) both keep sync well but the starting was a issue for me. I also tried a cheapo LV boat esc (90A 180A burst) £35.00ukp with mods and this was much better for startup but still not predictable. The last one I have been playing with was a 100A turnigy HV esc (with again a few mods) which is about the same on startup as the boat esc, dont get me wrong they all work and with some care they work really well, If I wanted a e-bike just for commuting ( with the option to get the bike rolling before applying the throttle )then the £9.00 will do the job ( shame its only a LV one :? ) . I still havent mounted the sensor converted motor onto a bike yet so still not totally sure how its gonna perform yet, but on the bench it is a very big improvment over all the sensorless controllers that I have. Once the RC ESC are running they are fine but the problem is getting the motor to spin up under a big load this maybe able to be got around by having some sort of clutch.

gwhy! said:

The last one I have been playing with was a 100A turnigy HV esc (with again a few mods) .

Click to expand...

This shall be the first ESC i will buy(was yours the newer 10mhz model?) plan to add extra couple of caps and that shall be it for time being Hope your modded setup performs as you expect

KiM

AussieJester said:

gwhy! said:

The last one I have been playing with was a 100A turnigy HV esc (with again a few mods) .

Click to expand...

This shall be the first ESC i will buy(was yours the newer 10mhz model?) plan to add extra couple of caps and that shall be it for time being Hope your modded setup performs as you expect

KiM

Click to expand...

Hi KiM,
It is the 12mhz model, http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=4691 , On all the controllers that I have been playing with the mods that I have made is double up on input wires, Add caps and remove heatsink and fit a much larger one, I have given all 4 controllers some major,major abuse with not one has failed ( they dont even seem to get warm except when programming them). I hope the modded setup works well also but we will see.

Yup thats the puppy im talkin about 12mhz thought was 10mhz soz my bad...And yes you have done what i plan to do add caps and heatsink. Did you go for two or more caps?

Would you be interested in selling the ESC at all? I won't have the $$to spare for a few weeks give you time to test and decide if the modded setup is better for you? Keep it in mind anywayz bud i have to buy a ESC either way would prefer throwing dollars to a fellow member of ES than Hobby City.

KiM

AussieJester said:

Yup thats the puppy im talkin about 12mhz thought was 10mhz soz my bad...And yes you have done what i plan to do add caps and heatsink. Did you go for two or more caps?

Would you be interested in selling the ESC at all? I won't have the $$to spare for a few weeks give you time to test and decide if the modded setup is better for you? Keep it in mind anywayz bud i have to buy a ESC either way would prefer throwing dollars to a fellow member of ES than Hobby City.

KiM

Click to expand...

Hi KiM,
Only used 2 caps, I would like to keep hold of the turnigy at the mo as its the only hv controller I have until I get the sensored controller up and running. but maybe in a couple of weeks I will be in a better position to decide what im gonna do , drop me a pm just before you go ordering yourself a esc and I will let you know.

Hi Kim waiting for the picture's nice to see another build from you. From scratch again no bought frames handmade hopefully it will inspire others, From the drawings it will be some beast.

Paul

gwhy! said:

drop me a pm just before you go ordering yourself a esc and I will let you know.

Click to expand...

Will do exactly that my friend :: crosses finger the halls woirk for you :: hehee...seriously though best of luck with it

Paul....D Yes it will be completely custom frame (aside of course from head tube and bottom brackets they will be cut from donor frames i have here) i just finished my breakfast and chatting with FrankG from here on ES...(checkout Franks site if your into custom projects he is the DIY KING...http://www.theworkshop.ca and am about to head out and start on the fab of it...

KiM

EDIT: **** Any owners of westcoast chopper or OCC chopper bicyles out there i'm chasing the measurement (width) of the bottom bracket it would make things hugely easier if i had the measurement as i am making my own from 'standard' size bottom brackets...cheers in advance ****

UPDATE

Well it took FOUR bloody hours to make ONE extra wide botttom bracket today DAMN! im out of
practise haha Turns out OCC and WestCoast Chopper bicycles have 120mm wide bottom brackets...the
mission is to make two of these for the frame, thankfully Matt (1000watt) has offered me his
extra wide bottom bracket shaft and threaded ends so only one shaft is needed to be made thankfully



Last pic you can see i have smeared some JB Weld around to fitt a few imperfections from the welding will
sand the majority of it off when its set...

[youtube]3G3F60Uah3k[/youtube]

( did this vid specially for Other Doc to show how accurate/true/straight the extended
shaft ended up, no beavers chewing metal in this workshop Other Doc hehehe...:: looks about ::: where is Other Doc :-| )

Not very exciting stuff but obviously essential for the build, i will have two bottom brackets, one up
front for the cranks and one midway on the frame, I plan to have the crank sprocket on the front left side going
to mid bottom bracket where another sprocket will be mounted, on the right side ANOTHER freewheel
going to the back wheel...So we have the motor driving the left hand side of the rear wheel,
pedal power the right...Going to be rather cramped with frreewheels, pulley and rotor ALL
good though I have angle grinder WILL make it fit hahaaa

More tomorrow chaps...

KiM

Hi Kim

I have followed Frank G for years he is one hell of a guy. But then again i have followed you from forum to forum. so i could follow you creations and have a good laugh. I have been thinking about your stabilizers you could use a car wiper motor or window motor as these are geared cheap and light and easy to conceal with a design feature just a thought.

Paul

Paul.............D said:

Hi Kim

I have followed Frank G for years he is one hell of a guy. But then again i have followed you from forum to forum. so i could follow you creations and have a good laugh. I have been thinking about your stabilisers you could use a car wiper motor or window motor as these are geared cheap and light and easy to conceal with a design feature just a thought.

Paul

Click to expand...

Yeah Frank is a hell of a fella very skilled and incredibly intelligent, when hes not out enjoying the summer at either his van on the lake or his shooting cabin i get to speak to him (via Skype) most evenings (his mornings) to catch up with days plans and previous days goings ons, its always entertaining to hear what he is upto i tell ya ...some of the shit he scores for next to nothing blows me away ... anyhoot...stabilisers ...i had thought of using electric car antennae or window winder motors BUT having looked about on the net i found this place $US130 bucks gets you a niiiiice actuator that will do the job beautifully, few bucks more for the switch and your in business, i decided IF i do go automated (as i also have a manual setup sketched out too) i will opt for the linear actuators thankyou though Paul for input and interest keep the ideas coming

KiM

Two really cool things about the above:
1) the magna is almost exactly the same as the one I used for the front of CrazyBike2

2) I did not imagine trying to cut and extend the BB crankshaft itself; I did not think it would take the torque if I did that. Now I know that it *can*, though I am hoping you will post as much specific detail as possible about the actual methods and materials used on the shaft extension. Is it solid inside, or *just* the tube-over-shaft? What wall thickness is the tube, and what kind of steel?

I'd really really like to widen the BBs on mine, especially for the upcoming from-scratch version of CrazyBike2 (which hasn't got a name yet). It'd help a lot for clearing the extra-wide rear part of the frame for the cargo pods. (right now I had planned to put it *between* the frame tubes, and the clearance for the rings on each side is something like a millimeter or two at best, making it a little difficult to get them on and off unless I do it before welding the BB into place, which would suck--I would not have to do that if I can extend the shaft).

amberwolf said:

2) I did not imagine trying to cut and extend the BB crankshaft itself; I did not think it would take the torque if I did that. Now I know that it *can*, though I am hoping you will post as much specific detail as possible about the actual methods and materials used on the shaft extension. Is it solid inside, or *just* the tube-over-shaft? What wall thickness is the tube, and what kind of steel?

Click to expand...

I have used a section of the tube i listed in OP, the smaller ID with 3mm wall thickness. I actually had to press the two shaft halves into the tube section hence the accurate result (straight and true) Im VERY confident in my welding abilites and TBH i couldn't see any electric motor i could mount breaking it that said, it wont be under anywhere near that load, the bottom brackets wont be under electric power at all, my weak chook legs couldn't push in a cardboard box let alone breaking 3mm wall thickness mild steel hahahaa.. best of luck with yout build FYI Choppers US sell extra wide bottom brackets if you want to buy off shelf...which having seen your excellent custom builds i seriously doubt so 120mm wide if make your own mate

KiM

AussieJester said:

I have used a section of the tube i listed in OP, the smaller ID with 3mm wall thickness.

Click to expand...

Ooops. I missed that somehow.

I actually had to press the two shaft halves into the tube section hence the accurate result (straight and true)

Click to expand...

That should help. I don't have a press of any kind, but... If I were to chuck up a shaft end in the lathe, not spinning, then hold the end of the tube over the end of the shaft to keep alignment, then use the lathe's tailstock crank to press them together (without a tailstock spindle in there or it might spread the other end of the tube), do you think it would work? Or will I probably need more force than that? I know it'll depend on what tubing I find....

None of my vises or c-clamps are wide enough to fit anything like that in there.

Im VERY confident in my welding abilites and TBH i couldn't see any electric motor i could mount breaking it that said, it wont be under anywhere near that load, the bottom brackets wont be under electric power at all, my weak chook legs couldn't push in a cardboard box let alone breaking 3mm wall thickness mild steel hahahaa..

Click to expand...

Yeah I can see why you don't have to worry about it much; unfortunately mine will be under a full load at least on the rear shaft. The front one I don't think I have to widen (although it would probably make things easier if I did, as the area right behind it would be a lot more useful for cargo or batteries).

I guess I can test it out and if it doesn't work figure something else out.

I'm not nearly so confident in my own welding--it's good enough for most things, but I'm still a beginner--I would not even class myself as journeyman, not even close.

best of luck with yout build FYI Choppers US sell extra wide bottom brackets if you want to buy off shelf...which having seen your excellent custom builds i seriously doubt so 120mm wide if make your own mate

Click to expand...

Well, I'd be better off buying for it, but part of the idea and goal is not to buy anything at all for it, and to use only recycled parts. Now, if I could buy used parts for it like that, they'd still be recycled so it would still match the goal (but I don't have money to buy anything, making it a moot point).

Still, nice to know they do exist to *be* bought if it comes down to having to do it!

Not sure my builds are "excellent"; I have to be realistic and say I'm surprised that the frame hasn't ever broken or fallen apart. I'm 4.something miles away from hitting the 500 mile mark with the frame in it's current state, so it should break right at 499.9.

You have a metal lathe!!!11oneoneone Turn up your own shaft from bar stock sheesh haha I used
to turn up half shafts for my 1/8th scale RC race cars on the lathe with my eyes shut easy peezy buddy...

FYI...my "press" equals BIG mofo vice LoL...Honestly though, i seriously doubt if you get even some decent tacks
on the shaft you aint going to break it in a hurry...buuuuut if your a biut "iffy" about it you actually have 3 options!

Seeing your a member on Moteredbikes...checkout my latest post in 'Genral discussion" Eno has a spare OCC chopper, the rear rim hub and tire are now "spoken for" by me, but the frame isn't and it has a extra wide BB, perhaps offer Eno some $$ for the BB and shaft if he is willing to cutz the frame up, the rear section and head tube would be good to grab also making cutting the frame more worthwhile...just a thought....

KiM

AussieJester said:

You have a metal lathe!!!11oneoneone Turn up your own shaft from bar stock sheesh haha I used
to turn up half shafts for my 1/8th scale RC race cars on the lathe with my eyes shut easy peezy buddy...

Click to expand...

I want to, but I can't do the threaded bits. I don't have the threading gears for the lathe, and the crappy taps/dies I have wouldn't cut anything hard enough to not twist under pedalling/motor loads. That's the big kicker for lots of things I would like to make--being unable to thread them. (proper taps/dies cost way too much for me to get, probably ever, unless I luck out like i did with the lathe itself--rust bucket it might be, but it mostly works!)

Plus I am not sure of any good way I can cut the square taper so that it's properly centered (I can't do the crank arm's hole, either, preventing me from making my own crank spider centers and adapters). I mean, I can *guesstimate* it, and then hand file it, recheck it, file, recheck, etc till it's done, but it takes weeks of that since my finger and wrist joints hurt so much after an hour of doing it.

I am slowly learning, but I don't know much about machining parts, and all the myriad "easy" ways of doing stuff, which seem so obvious after I learn them that I feel really stupid for not figuring them out on my own.

FYI...my "press" equals BIG mofo vice LoL...Honestly though, i seriously doubt if you get even some decent tacks
on the shaft you aint going to break it in a hurry...buuuuut if your a biut "iffy" about it you actually have 3 options!

Click to expand...

Well, if the vice will do it, so will the tailstock crank on the lathe, even if I have to put a bar thru the wheel to tighten it.

Seeing your a member on Moteredbikes...checkout my latest post in 'Genral discussion" Eno has a spare OCC chopper, the rear rim hub and tire are now "spoken for" by me, but the frame isn't and it has a extra wide BB, perhaps offer Eno some $$ for the BB and shaft if he is willing to cutz the frame up, the rear section and head tube would be good to grab also making cutting the frame more worthwhile...just a thought....

Click to expand...

I'll check that out and see. I've a feeling it'd be more $$ than I have to spend, especially if he's down there with you across the big pond from me. Still never hurts to ask!

If he was local to me I'd love to get the whole frame, because parts of it would be useful for several ideas I've got.

amberwolf said:

If he was local to me I'd love to get the whole frame, because parts of it would be useful for several ideas I've got.

Click to expand...

HAHA yeah he's in Sydney across the otherside of OZ and i happened to say exactly the same thing to him in regards to purchasing the whole frame if he was 'local' LoL...

I would opt for using mild steel bar, turning it to desired shape size etc i would not do the external thread (like bolt) i would drill the end of the shaft and tap it so bolt screws in......then theres the tappered ends... i have no solution for that off hand, mill would be required though, do you have a mill attachment for the lathe OR a milling machine in that workshop of yours? Once all thats done i would pop it in my furnace heat the bejesus out of it before dropping it in water to harden it...OR you could just pay 30 bucks for one LoL...


Best of luck anywayz mate, these things are sent to test us, life would be no fun at all if it was easy would it?

KiM

AussieJester said:

HAHA yeah he's in Sydney across the otherside of OZ and i happened to say exactly the same thing to him in regards to purchasing the whole frame if he was 'local' LoL...

Click to expand...

Lots of stuff like that I see that I could build a FLEET from if they were around here.

I would opt for using mild steel bar, turning it to desired shape size etc i would not do the external thread (like bolt) i would drill the end of the shaft and tap it so bolt screws in......then theres the tappered ends... i have no solution for that off hand, mill would be required though, do you have a mill attachment for the lathe OR a milling machine in that workshop of yours? Once all thats done i would pop it in my furnace heat the bejesus out of it before dropping it in water to harden it

Click to expand...

I don't have a furnace; how hot would I need to get it to harden it, do you think? The best I can really do right now is about 500F in an electric oven (maybe higher if I laid it on the actual stovetop electric element, on high so it glows orange, then cover it with something like a large cake pan upside down to keep air from convecting all the heat away)

I have a feeling that I could do the threaded end bolts as part of the shaft easier than I could bore holes in it straight and true, if it was mild steel.

I think I'm going to do some experimenting, because I have an idea for the tapered part. If I use an existing shaft, clamped in a vise centered just below the one in the chuck, lined up with it, and lock the chuck in place so it can't rotate, at 90 degree intervals, I could use that as a guide fence to move the toolholder against, shaving down the tapered area slowly, if i were using mild steel instead of hardened.

I wish I had time right this minute to go set that up and try it!

...OR you could just pay 30 bucks for one LoL...

Click to expand...

Where would the fun be in THAT?! (even if i had the money)

Best of luck anywayz mate, these things are sent to test us, life would be no fun at all if it was easy would it?

Click to expand...

I dunno about NO fun, but it would be less entertaining!

EDIT: fixed missing quote end

I was told to heat the steel till its de-magnetised then quench it in water, the success of hardning steel lies in the carbon content of the steel itself, the more carbon it contains the better, mild steel for memory has around .4-.5%? carbon count so works reasonably well. If you can get your hands on some high carbon count steel...ie: tool steel tis over 1% carnbon it would be the shot...The carbon content will determine the temperature required thermometer or colour chart (if your not colour blind?) can be used to test temps, i doubt the oven will do it though. I have also tried quenching in oil (old sump oil from car) this was shown to me in Manuel Arts at High School actually, we made bottle openers tempered them and quenched them in oil to stop rusting...You can always make your axle and have it professionally hardened<--whole nother process :-S prolly end up costing more than buying a shaft off the shelf though BUT HEY! you made it yourself heheheee....


kiM

UPdate

I Started bending the tube for the cruisers frame today, i have changed the design slightly
to the sketch, for the better i think hehe...as always heres a few pics-->



The bottom pic is a 2 minute photochop excuse the "dodginess" haha thought might give a good indication what i am seeing n my head anywayz

The notching of the tubes went well each one i did was hassle free ... I have welded the bottom tube the rest is still sitting
loosely sitting in place, I will finish the remain cuts and have the front half of the frame tacked up tomorrow
and the majority of the back also completed..back with more then fellas...

KiM

EDIT: *Note..Forks, bars, stem pictured WILL NOT be used in finished build.

Kim,

I have two 12volt DC linear actualtors here from a SPL car-audio build. They have (I think) 4 or 5 inch travel. I would say they weigh about 1.5 pounds each. They take about 1.5 or 2 seconds to run their length.

They were originally $100 each. They are slightly used.

I will donate them to your project if you would like.

I can ship them in your box.

I will also sell you anything you need at my cost (ESC, throttle interface, etc). I want to help out any way I can.

Matt