bulletproof freewheel

[mdd0127]

I picked up a CSK-PP 35 from VXB and all I can say so far is that it's awesome. It was around $30. No side to side play at all. Nice seals. Heavy. I have tested it with a big breaker bar and all of my weight and it doesn't budge. I have not tested it on a bike yet though. The adapters will be pretty complicated to make but silent coasting will definitely be worth the effort!

Miles,

Excellent thought about the additional bearing structure in relation to the csk! My design incorporates the extra bearings but for axle stiffness/strength reasons instead. I hadn't thought about the additional bearing actually supporting the csk as a result. Since my hub will need a disc adapter on one side and the csk adapter on the other, and I need to center the hub in the dropouts because the wheel isn't dished, I got some thinner bearings that are the same id as the hub bearings to fit into the ends of the adapters. The 4 bearing structure when combined with the 20mm thru axle should make for a very stiff rear end. I'll post a pic when I get the adapters and axle done.

[Miles]

That should be pretty stable! I used a CSK35P(Japanese one) on the hub of my Moulton.

As with the ENO, you have to be careful running power through the CSK series in freewheeling mode. If the force is too much out-of-line the bearing will be likely to wear prematurely (as you wrote earlier). That's when a second bearing will be most advantageous. In your case, as with mine, the sprags and bearing form a proper structure when under load.

I'm interested to see how reliable those Chinese one-ways are. In the Stieber catalaogue, it says that the nominal torque ratings (VXB list 140Nm for the CSK35) are half of the peak ratings.

[elation]

Hi All

Long time since I have had time to do a post (Is that you I hear cheering KiM?? LOL)

With the release of V3 I am now also in a position to start offering parts to buyers who don't have an eLation system.

I thought this would be a good place to start. In V2 I was using an off the shelf CSK-PP35 with keyway on both rings. For V3 I have had a tailored Sprag clutch manufactured.

It is based around the CSK-PP35 but with dimenions more suited to bike components.

IMG_0380.JPG (49.47 KiB) Viewed 1192 times

Detail:
OD 62mm
ID 1.37", 24TPI. This lines up with standard bike threads
Width 15mm. This is 1mm norrower than standard to allow to give 'perfect' fit to cranks able to accept freewheels.
Outer ring Keyway 8mm wide, 1mm deep
Combined bearing and sprag with seals on each side

They have saved me a lot of time and cost avoiding keys and 'special parts' being made, and so I felt worth the cost. Some on here may not agree, going with the lower cost due to no consideration to valueing their own time, since it is a hobby.

I can sell at AUD$50 plus postage. As an idea, postage to USA or UK could be as low as AUD$12 by standard air mail.

NOTE:
Once the bearing is on, it is not the easiest to remove as there are no tags, etc to allow easy undoing. I considered this at time of design, but felt for eLation needs it was not needed as we sell the crank 'spider' as a complete unit. It does not mean it can't be removed (awkwardly during assembly), but is pretty much there to stay once operational. For the time being, based on eLation's needs this is not needed to change. However, if there is enough interest I can review this choice and have a batch done to accomodate removal.

At present for my prototyping needs I uses a grinding wheel to cut a couple of goove on inner ring edge to allow for tools to remove

[bobb]

d

[elation]

I might as well show the completed crank system while I have chance to post.

IMG_0381.JPG (44.69 KiB) Viewed 1198 times

IMG_0382.JPG (45.64 KiB) Viewed 1198 times

Based around 5 hole 74/110 PCD standard. This will allow rings in size from 24T to 51T (and larger if suited to 110PCD)

Cranks forged alloy 17omm for tapered spindle.
Spider Al6061 T6

I can also get a variety of crank lengths ranging from 150 to 175mm (from memory) and with ISIS fitting.

Cost for set as shown in pics is $250, again saving a lot of time for people without access to full blown workshop.
Freight USA and UK starting from AUD$40 for air mail

[AussieJester]

Hi All

Long time since I have had time to do a post (Is that you I hear cheering KiM?? LOL)

Nice crank would prefer that to a freewheel myself...

KiM

[Miles]

Thanks for posting Allan. It's good to have this option.

[visuthdy]

Has anybody on ES used the eLation V3 freewheel setup from above? I'm looking for a heavy duty setup for use with Matt's drive unit for use on rode and can handle the off rode abuse on mountain bike trails. Is the ENO freewheel from sick bike parts still the best option? I had planed on using Matt's disk brake adapter on the rear wheel, now I've decided to put on a fat bike that has 100mm bb and surly wide tires. I figured my only option is freewheel cranks setup. Will it even work on standard length or do I need to get longer spindle because of the freewheel. I would love to hear other options too. thanks.

[Miles]

Hi visuthdy,

Did you see this thread? viewtopic.php?f=28&t=25153

[visuthdy]

Hi Miles,
Yes, I did look at that thread. At first, I was going to go with the ENO freewheel. But after reading the thread, it looks like people had issues with both the dicta and ENO freewheel. That's why I ask about the eLation V3 freewheel setup.

[Miles]

That's why I ask about the eLation V3 freewheel setup.

There have been problems reported with that, too.

[MitchJi]

Hi,

If any manufacturers see this, we need a flanged, high quality freewheel with dual row bearings!

Yes!

Sent this to Jim at Sickbikes:

What are the chances of you coming up with a solution? Maybe an additional optional support bearing for your Eno FW's?

And got this response:

Yes we are aware of the problem as it applies to mostly electric applications as the angular loads are much greater with an electric set up than with our gas jackshaft set up. We have contacted White about making a dual row bearing freewheel for us making a much more bullet proof set up. They said they would work on it but we haven't bugged them about it lately. I will contact them again and see if we can get the project started again. I will let you know what they say.

My reply (hopefully not a mistake!):

Maybe I could help organize a group purchase which would help you judge demand (might not be good news) and help fund the project.

His reply:

Yes some input about quantity would help.

If nobody beats me to it I'll start a new topic (maybe a poll) later tonight.

[bobb]

sickbikeparts.com wrote:
Yes we are aware of the problem as it applies to mostly electric applications as the angular loads are much greater with an electric set up than with our gas jackshaft set up.

I don't know how I could improve the angular loads. My chains are as close to rubbin as you can get and everything is centered. New theory - My Currie XYD at 50:1 in two stages, will eat those burners lunch out of the hole.



I'll bet the electric segment of their business is more than they realize. If it isn't, it soon will be. I went the CSK route. Smooooooth. And I don't think it will lock up if I crash it. Good luck!!!

Bob

[Whiplash]

So are these readily available? How long to the US shipping wise? I like the idea of no clicking for my kits..

[MitchJi]

Hi Bob,

I went the CSK route. Smooooooth. And I don't think it will lock up if I crash it. Good luck!!!

Bob

Support bearings? How much work did it require? Any chance of a kit?

[bobb]

t

[boostjuice]

CSK25? really? I hope you mean CSK35 (torque rating is ~double)

[RWP]

What about using two CSK20's side by side?:
http://www.vxb.com/page/bearings/PROD/Kit8180

[Miles]

CSK25? really? I hope you mean CSK35 (torque rating is ~double)

I'm not yet convinced that the Chinese CSK 35s are up to the task, even..........

[bobb]

My whole bicycle is nothing more than a postulated theory.

CSK20 14mm wide torque 40 6 ball bearing
CSK25 15mm wide torque 68 11 ball bearing

I opted to give up the millimeter to get the heavier support bearing:

2 25's side by side may be the hot ticket if you have the room. Width of EVERYTHING is the constant battle for me. My doohickey is 7/8 inch wide.

My reasoning is, pedalling a bicycle is a system that is perpetually yielding. I was thinking about how the torque falls off dramatically fast when you push a bolt past yield.

Guess I'll find out. I will definitely post the results good or bad. It will be awhile though. Big motor/battery upgrade in the works

Dark humor disclaimer: build my design and you will die

[katou]

What the heck are the twin pipe looking fender thingy's?

I'm dying to know!

Katou

[amberwolf]

THose are hte battery boxes, IIRC.

[katou]

I do believe that's a first, at least for me. I wonder how he keeps them from flopping around? They must be quite rigid!

Katou

[amberwolf]

I have seen either this bike or another one in an ES thread last year specifically showing off those tube-fenders as battery boxes. I just cant' remember what thread it was.

[boostjuice]

See also: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=25153&start=45#p385851