Quality versus cost?

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.

Quality versus cost?

Postby recumpence » Thu Dec 01, 2011 7:04 pm

Hey Guys,

I want to know what you guys prefer, low cost or high quality? I understand there is a point where quality is too poor to justify the low cost, and high quality can get too expensive if you adopt a "Price be damned, I want the best" mindset. That being said, however, give me your opinion; Do you lean more toward low cost or high quality?

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Re: Quality versus cost?

Postby strantor » Thu Dec 01, 2011 7:17 pm

I would love to say that I always choose high quality, but the truth is that (bein po') I almost always settle for low quality, low price. The exception is when I buy something that I know I will keep for a long time, like my fluke test equipment. Once (if ever) I start making bigger bucks, I will be a high quality guy.
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Re: Quality versus cost?

Postby StudEbiker » Thu Dec 01, 2011 7:28 pm

With something like tools, I always try to buy the best I can get, or at least one that I feel will last me a lifetime.

With E-bike stuff though, I think a middle of the road approach is the best one. My nature with e-bikes is build one and then build another. With the rapidly evolving tech with e-bikes, it doesn't make too much sense to me to buy the very best because I don't know what development lies just around the corner that might be better AND cheaper than whatever it was I just bought. At the same time, I don't want crap that won't last me very long either.

This is kind of how I approach computers too. I don't understand people that feel like they have to constantly have the latest and greatest computer tech especially if all they do is surf the net and watch movies. It's going to be outdated next year anyway. I think it's better and much more economical to not be on the cutting edge.

If I was racing e-bikes, then spending gobs of money on the latest e-bike tech would make sense, but all I want is a solidly dependable commuter. I don't have to spend a small fortune to get that. :)
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Re: Quality versus cost?

Postby SamTexas » Thu Dec 01, 2011 7:30 pm

For me I say neither. It has to be a balance of both. How much quality is too much? Let's say I buy a hub motor. If that hub motor is reliable for me for 5 years then it's good enough for me. I wouldn't pay more more the same hub that lasts twice or three times longer. On the other hand, I would not even consider a hub that only last 2 years, regardless of its cost.
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Re: Quality versus cost?

Postby goriverman » Thu Dec 01, 2011 7:47 pm

I am really so confused. How do you know if its a quality motor, by the price. All these motors are made in china or Europe shipped here and then some one us makes it up and sells it for more. seems like mostly all the geared hub motors are made in china anyway, I want to get a hub motor that will push my trike 25 mph on 40 volts is there such a animal or do i have to upgrade to a higher voltage i have 37 volt 10 amp hobbie king lipo batt pack now. I :roll:
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Re: Quality versus cost?

Postby SamTexas » Thu Dec 01, 2011 7:51 pm

I think you're asking me. How do you know? You ask people who have ACTUALLY used it.
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Re: Quality versus cost?

Postby snowranger » Thu Dec 01, 2011 7:54 pm

Why can't you have both?

When the first small Japanese cars were on the market, Detroit was saying would you rather have high quality or low cost? Over time, the Japanese were able to offer both and still be profitable.
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Re: Quality versus cost?

Postby ZOMGVTEK » Thu Dec 01, 2011 8:54 pm

It entirely depends on the product, and how much I know about it.

For a basic DD hubmotor, I swing for the lowest cost possible. For something significantly more important, complex, and prone to issues, like a charger... Quality is a must. I've spent hundreds on chargers, when $20-40 chargers exist and work OK.

Basically, if there is a major advantage to paying for quality, it's worth it to me. Even if the cost significantly outweighs the advantages. Sometimes it's just nice to have things you can more or less 'trust'...
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Re: Quality versus cost?

Postby AussieJester » Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:48 pm

This is in the NON HUB MOTOR DRIVE section of the forum :shock: What
the f*ck have frock motors got to do with anything SamTexas ...ZOMGVTEK...goriverman ??

Matt...I would like high quality but due to the price of high quality i must settle for the best i can afford...

I would like to be able to afford Astro motors and Nuvinci reduction drives but as nice as these products are
over a grand for motor and reduction drive is WAY WAY above what i am prepared to pay when i can
pick up a motor (Turnigy) with higher specs than an astro for ~1/5th the price. i have over a 1000 kilometers
on my current V2 80-100 130kv STOCK UNTOUCHED motor and its not always treated well! It
hasn't missed a beat, it cost 99 bucks the Astro 3220 cost over 600 bucks IIRC... can't justify it Matt
obviously this is just my opinion, please don't be offended.... :wink: :)

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Re: Quality versus cost?

Postby neptronix » Thu Dec 01, 2011 10:20 pm

Cost, sorry!
There are so many things to spend money on with an eBike.

An RC reduction system has to compete with the cost and reliability of a hub motor. I think the only way that can be done is to cater to the turnigy motors ( or something equivalent ) and do the reduction units in large quantities..

The RC drive has many advantages over a hub motor, but the cost does not make up for it at this time.
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Re: Quality versus cost?

Postby AussieJester » Thu Dec 01, 2011 10:35 pm

neptronix wrote:The RC drive has many advantages over a hub motor


At least you got that right...

neptronix wrote:but the cost does not make up for it at this time.


In your opinion :roll:

The question wasn't which was better, it was "low cost or high quality" nothing to do with frock v's Non frock neptronix Seeing you have near the whole forum to discuss your frock motors, perhaps, maybe? we can keep this section of the forum dedicated to what it was created for NON HUB MOTOR DRIVES

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Re: Quality versus cost?

Postby SamTexas » Thu Dec 01, 2011 10:45 pm

AussieJester wrote:This is in the NON HUB MOTOR DRIVE section of the forum :shock: What
the f*ck have frock motors got to do with anything SamTexas ...ZOMGVTEK...goriverman ??

I don't give a damn! What the f*ck is the problem with you? I was using the hub motor as an example. Get that, idiot?
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Re: Quality versus cost?

Postby AussieJester » Thu Dec 01, 2011 10:52 pm

SamTexas wrote:I don't give a damn!


Yes, its obvious you don't

SamTexas wrote:What the f*ck is the problem with you?


Why do you think i have a problem? no problem here

SamTexas wrote:I was using the hub motor as an example. Get that, idiot?

Fair enough :roll: i don't think it warrants referring to me as an idiot though Sam, does it?,
it....

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Re: Quality versus cost?

Postby SamTexas » Thu Dec 01, 2011 10:54 pm

Why did you have to swear in the first place?
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Re: Quality versus cost?

Postby neptronix » Thu Dec 01, 2011 10:57 pm

All i'm saying is that an RC drive has to compare to a hub motor in various ways. I know you're a 'rc drive till death' kind of guy but the other 99% of the forum is just looking for the best thing out there, cost being one of the major factors as this hobby definitely adds up..

AJ, and most importantly Sam.. let's not turn this into a flame war. Matt is looking for answers and not people arguing.
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Pro-tips for noobs: Charge RC Lipos to 4.15v, stop discharging at 3.5-3.6v | Use torque plates/arms! | Rear mounted hubs are always best
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Re: Quality versus cost?

Postby AussieJester » Thu Dec 01, 2011 11:01 pm

Recumpence wrote:Hey Guys,

I want to know what you guys prefer, low cost or high quality? I understand there is a point where quality is too poor to justify the low cost, and high quality can get too expensive if you adopt a "Price be damned, I want the best" mindset. That being said, however, give me your opinion; Do you lean more toward low cost or high quality?

Matt



neptronix wrote: Matt is looking for answers and not people arguing.


:wink: exactly......

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Re: Quality versus cost?

Postby recumpence » Thu Dec 01, 2011 11:09 pm

Geeze, you guys are hillarious. :)

I guess I stirred up a hornet's nest.........

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Re: Quality versus cost?

Postby goriverman » Thu Dec 01, 2011 11:16 pm

AussieJester wrote:This is in the NON HUB MOTOR DRIVE section of the forum :shock: What
the f*ck have frock motors got to do with anything SamTexas ...ZOMGVTEK...goriverman ??

Matt...I would like high quality but due to the price of high quality i must settle for the best i can afford...

I would like to be able to afford Astro motors and Nuvinci reduction drives but as nice as these products are
over a grand for motor and reduction drive is WAY WAY above what i am prepared to pay when i can
pick up a motor (Turnigy) with higher specs than an astro for ~1/5th the price. i have over a 1000 kilometers
on my current V2 80-100 130kv STOCK UNTOUCHED motor and its not always treated well! It
hasn't missed a beat, it cost 99 bucks the Astro 3220 cost over 600 bucks IIRC... can't justify it Matt
obviously this is just my opinion, please don't be offended.... :wink: :)

KiM

Lighten up buddy didn't realize is was the non hub motor thing lol. Did i jerk your chain. forgive me for i have sinned or maybe it was just a senior moment lol
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Re: Quality versus cost?

Postby ZOMGVTEK » Thu Dec 01, 2011 11:27 pm

I just tend to click on 'Electric Bicycles', since all sub-sections are of some interest to me. I don't see how using a frock for comparison purposes matters that much. The basic idea is that most motors are extremely basic, and reliable when not overheated. Spending more isn't going to make a big impact. People tend to just use a cheap motor and abuse it. If it blows, it's not a big deal.

Most people are willing to pay for quality. However, it's going to be a hard sell, if the current low cost products work fine. It just depends on what you want to do, make a low end product for the masses, or aim for high end perfection...
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Re: Quality versus cost?

Postby Kurt » Thu Dec 01, 2011 11:36 pm

Personally I always just look for value.

I start by defining my expectations for a product and find the product that comes the closest to my expectations at the best price. Some times I am forced to pay a little more even a lot to have my expectations met. Other times I am surprised at how my expectations can be met at such a cheep price.

Although its a good starting point or rule of thumb. There isn't always a prefect correlation between cost and quality. Often products are simply marketed as quality with a high price although they are actually cheep rubbish. Large department stores do this often, import crap and sell it at a premium. Sold to you at a premium using there reputation as a seller of quality goods. if I think I am just paying for marketing fluff or hype that adds no value to the products intended use I will not pay for it.

Using the the astro motor example. Comparing a $600 astro to a $100 turnigy motor. Considering they might both do the same job on paper . I then break it down and find out why a astro motor cost $600 and what compromises I am excepting if I was to pick the turnigy motor. My take on going with s cheep motor was motor offerings are changing all the time and I can kill an expensive motor just as easy as a cheep one. Though I do feel if the turnigy motors were offered at say $200 price point but with better QC it would be a happy sweet spot.

I want value and I want my money spent where I am going to get value. As in what are the key elements of the product spend the money there. For example I don't want to spend $300 on ceramic bearings if there is no need for them. With a reduction drive your putting together are a package and if its build for a price point. The key is getting the balance. Make choices on the components that are going to represent the best value package based on the desired outcome.

Matt your drives that you are offering now are good value. If a big brand name was offering the same product. I am sure it would be at a much greater cost. Although I have a reasonable amount of disposable cash. I am a tight ass by nature and I wouldn't have purchased your RD unless a thought it was good value.


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Re: Quality versus cost?

Postby fizzit » Thu Dec 01, 2011 11:57 pm

I usually decide what I want, and then figure out the cheapest way I can get it or make it while having it live up to what I want it to do.
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Re: Quality versus cost?

Postby biohazardman » Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:11 am

I usually lean towards quality but cost is always weighed. There is a point where supposed quality only involves pretty colors, designs and trendy stuff/hype. Really don't want to go there as the extra $$$ only buy you a name or emblem ect. There is also a point at which more quality is not useful for my current needs which change with each build and what I am trying to do with them.
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Re: Quality versus cost?

Postby John in CR » Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:28 am

Since I consider all higher end quality bike and ebike items to be ridiculously overpriced, far lower prices without sacrificing quality is a matter of simplicity. Make up your difference in volume and watch your business expand exponentially. Ignore this advice and stay a niche enterprise. Sure there will always be customers for the perceived "best" just like Lamborghini or Ferrari, but with comparatively small dollar items it would be difficult to make much of a living.

If you really want to stick with the high end, then I'd suggest and approach geared toward the guys spending multi-thousands on their pedal bikes. That means less focus on power and more on tiny size and low weight with mostly custom work to fit owner specific bikes. A start in that regard might be geared to rigs for a guy's wife or girlfriend, so they can ride together without the woman holding the guy back. Then once he sees how well it works and fun to ride it is, he'll want one for one of his bikes too.
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Re: Quality versus cost?

Postby Kurt » Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:57 am

John in CR wrote:Since I consider all higher end quality bike and ebike items to be ridiculously overpriced, far lower prices without sacrificing quality is a matter of simplicity. Make up your difference in volume and watch your business expand exponentially. Ignore this advice and stay a niche enterprise. Sure there will always be customers for the perceived "best" just like Lamborghini or Ferrari, but with comparatively small dollar items it would be difficult to make much of a living.

If you really want to stick with the high end, then I'd suggest and approach geared toward the guys spending multi-thousands on their pedal bikes. That means less focus on power and more on tiny size and low weight with mostly custom work to fit owner specific bikes. A start in that regard might be geared to rigs for a guy's wife or girlfriend, so they can ride together without the woman holding the guy back. Then once he sees how well it works and fun to ride it is, he'll want one for one of his bikes too.



I think the above has hit the nail on the head. If people want the best they want custom personalised attention and one off design's. they will pay through the nose to get exactly what they want

I don't agree with the comment about the girl being the one trailing behind. A lot of the time girls are just as strong as guys in the legs and are very competitive.

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Re: Quality versus cost?

Postby sn0wchyld » Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:41 am

Kurt wrote:
John in CR wrote:Since I consider all higher end quality bike and ebike items to be ridiculously overpriced, far lower prices without sacrificing quality is a matter of simplicity. Make up your difference in volume and watch your business expand exponentially. Ignore this advice and stay a niche enterprise. Sure there will always be customers for the perceived "best" just like Lamborghini or Ferrari, but with comparatively small dollar items it would be difficult to make much of a living.

If you really want to stick with the high end, then I'd suggest and approach geared toward the guys spending multi-thousands on their pedal bikes. That means less focus on power and more on tiny size and low weight with mostly custom work to fit owner specific bikes. A start in that regard might be geared to rigs for a guy's wife or girlfriend, so they can ride together without the woman holding the guy back. Then once he sees how well it works and fun to ride it is, he'll want one for one of his bikes too.



I think the above has hit the nail on the head. If people want the best they want custom personalised attention and one off design's. they will pay through the nose to get exactly what they want

I don't agree with the comment about the girl being the one trailing behind. A lot of the time girls are just as strong as guys in the legs and are very competitive.

Kurt


+1 - and I guess the reverse is ture, that a ebike allows the chubby boyfriend to keep up with his girl.

I vote however for the first of these options. If I wanted a fun car for the weekends I'd buy a WRX, not a lambo. sure, the latter may be a few seconds faster, but not for 5x the price.
as it is I cant afford either :cry:

I dont have as much time in this ebike game as most on ES, but I feel that if you could bring in a ~4kw system for under the $1k mark, then you'd start to really pull some people away from the froc motors, particularly those who use their bike offroad. though that probably means moving away from astro's.
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