first build: suspension or hardtail

Hi

This is my first post here.
I recently read about ebikes and decided to get a kit, since then all my spare time has gone into research and this forum has been very helpful.
I've decided on a DD 9C kit with a 48V limn or lifepo4 battery from a local dealer. I live in Iceland so ordering online would cost about the same or more.

I commute 10km each way to work every day and the route consist mostly of road,biketrails,sidewalk and gravel trails.

I have a 10+ year old gary fisher piranha chromoly hardtail with a rigid front fork and cantilever breaks.
I'd like to upgrade to disc brakes.
I found a nice aluminum full suspension bike at a bike store which has room in the triangle for a battery. http://www.jamisbikes.com/usa/thebikes/fullsuspension/dakarxcr/10_dakarxcsport_spec.html

From what I've read here Full suspension bikes are popular for conversion, I went to the local bike shops and asked about Full suspension in-town commuting and looked at some bike forums on the subject, the answers ranged from turn off the suspension to get a hard tail, the store clerks however had no experience with ebikes.

Does this apply for a bike with a kit ? I imagine full suspension would be nice when you're going faster.
should I stick with the old hardtail, get the full suspension bike or look for a newer hardtail with disc brakes ?

thanks !

Are you happy with the way the hardtail rides? If so, you can just stick with that. It usually makes frame-mounted battery packs easier.

If you wish you had some suspension on the bumps, then go with FS, but choose carefully so you still get a bike that
--is not prone to breakage
--handles the way you want it to on your rides, evne without any motor stuff
--has adjustable suspension so you can adapt it to the additonal weight of your kit, as well as your weight.

One warning about many suspension bikes made of aluminum is that their dropouts are not designed to handle the stresses of a hubmotor, either rear or front. Front just happens to be the most dramatic failure type, leading to faceplants or worse.

Hi. I do not have a lot of e-bike experience but some bike knowledge, and I've chosen a full suss for my first ebike project. A full suss is not much more cimplicated than a hardtail , as long as you go the hubmotor route (if you find space for the batteries , that is). However, they are more expensive both to buy and to own. They are much nicer to both your back and the rear wheel though.
Another thing , no ordinary bike rider in their right minds would reccomend a heavy full sus bike for commuting. Electric bikes are a completely different thing.

I would not have chosen the jamis bike , however. IMO the rear swingarm looks a bit weak, and the fork is not suited for high speeds with a heavy e-bike / big brakes. The head angle (71deg) is really steep.

I would look for something meant for all mountain/freeride/downhill , With a sturdy swingarm and a head angle of 66degrees or lower.
The giant DH Team is popular around here , and my choice for a first build.


The commencal Mini DH is another sweet bike with a solid rear swingarm and some space in the triangle.



.manitu

Get a rear hub kit, put it on your steel bike for now. 10K is not such a long trip that suspension is mandatory.

Later, when you know what to look for better,buy your FS bike. Once you install the motor on the steel bike, you'll learn a lot about what you need to look for in an alloy bike to convert. You will have to fabricate your own torque plates to fit the swingarm of the alloy frame bike. So you will want as big and flat a surface there for the torque plate, plus the oversize nuts and washers. You'll also have a much better idea if your battery will fit, if you can take it with you when you look at a bike you might buy.

You can get replacement forks with a disk mount for that steel bike. Chain reaction cycles in the UK is a great place to shop for stuff like that.

I agree with dogman. It's probably a good idea to start with what you already have first. See how it rides then you'll have a better idea of what to look for on the next bike.

I bought a "comfort" style bike for my first and only ebike with front shocks with a steel fork and aluminum hard tail frame. I'm running a crystalyte 407 in the front. I find the extra weight of my hub motor in front has a negative effect on my cheap front shocks. I have to go up sidewalks and bumps very carefully and slowly or I'll risk flat tires from my spokes hitting my tube. I have probably a dozen flats or so over the last couple months.

I'd really like to upgrade my front suspension and get something more rigid and with more travel. The bike doesn't seem well suited for the extra weight of the ebike components, particularly the front hub motor. Having better shocks in the front, for me would make a big difference in the smoothness of my rides.
The lack of rear suspension doesn't bother me much, possibly because I also have a big cushioned seat with a suspension build onto the seat post. However I probably would like to try out a full suspension bike in the not too distant future for my next build.

Really it depends on your weight, where you're putting the hub motor and the conditions of the surfaces you'll be biking on. Good luck with your first build. Ebikes are a lot of fun!

electr0n said:

...I have to go up sidewalks and bumps very carefully and slowly or I'll risk flat tires from my spokes hitting my tube...

Click to expand...

Well, I don't like a front motor for many reasons, but this one should not be an issue. Use a Michelin rim band, or any other brand that is similar hard plastic.

Yeah, some easy solves for that problem.

#1 being get a rear motor asap if you want to keep curb hopping. Goes without saying a better rim on the new motor will have double wall, so the spokes nipples don't touch the tube, even though rim tape anymore. With rear hub, your bike may feel more normal, provided you are carrying the battery in the frame.

#2 solve is to simply stop expecting a front hub motor to perform at all like a regular bike. Front hub does have a few virtues, so I still have a few bikes that run em. But for aggo urban, or dirt riding it's the rear hub bikes all the way. Front hubs and shock forks never work like they should, but can be better than a solid front fork in some cases, for some riders.

If there are potholes in the streets where you ride, or other hard bumps, you may wish you had gotten an FS bike. Fat tires help a lot, and you could even upgrade the seat to a $120 Thudbuster (be patient and shop around for the best price). The Thudbuster is pricey, but it is a lifetime purchase since it can be transferred to any future bike you swap to (and its always good to have at least two bikes, perhaps both FS and hardtail?).

If you plan to travel at 30-MPH or faster, I would recommend a full suspension bike regardless of any other considerations. A car can swerve and force you onto an unplanned and undesirable path, and at 30-MPH an FS bike is less likely to wipeout from an unexpected heavy bump.

I agree with whats been said. I am also new and have already bent spokes and the rim on my first e-bay 36 volt 20 mph kit ( steel rigid fork comfort crusier). So for my next build I am shopping bikes. Recent reports of suspension forks breaking and not being up to the task are alarming. But being in pot hole country, I would still like a front suspension and rear drive. Any one with suggestions on a good $500-700 project bike steel front suspension with good dropouts?

Kent
36 volt GM-15 ah ping.

No such thing as a good steel front suspension fork. Maybe I misunderstand, and you want steel frame?

The mongoose blackcomb is a shit bike, but it does have steel rear dropouts. Shock performance is pitiful compared to a real FS bike. I know, I have a decent Specialized that I will not ruin by putting a motor on it. The shocks are not great, but the 4 bar suspension gets the most out of a cheap pogo stick shock.

Nevertheless, I like the blackcomb enough to have two of em. One is set up as my dedicated dirt bike, 72v, 2.5" knobbies. The other is a hybrid. 48v, and balloon tires with a semi knobby tread. This one is street oriented, but the tires make it possible to enjoy easy trails and dirt roads too.

The reason I put up with the blackcombs shortcomings is the rear steel dropouts, that are extremely easy to fabricate a pinch mount for, when you go high power.


Carrying the battery is not great, but this works for me. Two boxes of 4 lipos on each side. Again, an easy bolt on deal.

The reason I say that hopefully is that I have a cheap Kent double suspension aluminum frame with steel suspension forks and steel dropouts in the rear. I was hoping for a similiar set up only better quality.

Full suspension bike from a name brand, you won't regret it.

Dogman: What kind of Disc Brake Caliper do you use on your 9c? How much clearance do you have between the flat side cover? I'm looking for a slimmer rotor that won't be too close to the cover.

Not sure what caliper it is. No marks on them at all. Bottom of the line stuff on a $350 bike. I had to spread the drops a few mm, and stack a fat spacer D washer on both sides of the axle. I like an inner D washer anyway to keep from digging into dropouts.


Re the Kent FS bike. Likely that is a more like $150 bike. The suspension is not so likely to be good off road, but I sure like them on the street. Great for soaking up the cracks and other humps in the asphalt. I stopped breaking spokes and bending wheels when I commuted on a similar cheap mongoose for a year. I didn't curb hop though. My town is pretty complete with ADA ramps to sidewalks. But the heat cracks in the pavement can be 2" tall.

For similar setup but better quality the blackcomb is a decent choice. It will come with an alloy fork, but for rear motor the steel in the back is ideal. For a "normal power" bike, many stock torque arms will simply bolt to the big flat steel plate at the dropout.

looked around a bit more, no Giant dealer in the country, and Downhill bikes such as the giant dh team are too expensive. I ended up buying the Jamis, it was on sale when I came back to the store. Getting the kit tomorrow.

If I were to purchase a bike JUST to convert it into an e-bike... It would without a doubt be a $200-500 hardtail with steel rear dropouts. The super cheap walmart bikes are HORRIBLE and everything feels like its going to fall off after a few hundred hard e-bike miles. Rear suspension adds more problems than its worth to me, I would prefer a soft seat over dealing with less space to mount stuff, along with the frame moving in respect to the tail, causing rear deck mounting issues. No rear suspension means nothing to flex, wobble, squeek, break, bounce, etc... The ride is a bit hard, but for me thats no big deal.

That said, my current e-bike is a $300 full suspension bike, and its OK...