New Agni Racing motor 111RDR

Jozzer · Nov 4, 2011

I've recently recieved some new motors from Agni, designed for higher efficiency under higher loadings and thought I'd introduce them here.
I've been having great fun testing these on the dyno, and have found them to be more than capable of 15KW+ continuously. They have been prepared with double thick magnets and are running a larger airgap than before. Other new features include a new better fitting brushholder with adjuster screws to set timing limits (might come in useful for a servo operated automatic timing feature).

bearing · Nov 4, 2011

Cool!

So, do these have more copper than the previous versions? how much does the 95R handle continuously?
What's the kV?

Ariane · Nov 4, 2011

Hi Jozzer,

Wow, price, weight, max current, max voltage, rpm/volts, max rpm's any clue?

Good day!
Black Arrow

Jozzer · Nov 4, 2011

Same amount of copper (though 111 strips of copper instead of 95). 59RPM/V.
Max RPM of all reinforced Agni's is 6000rpm. Weight is 11.9KG (900 grams more than a 95R because of the thicker magnets).

For the moment, this motor isn't quite in mass production, so no idea of final price. I have a small stock in at £1550 each and can take orders for some of the next run with a partial deposit (due before Xmas).

Steve

Jozzer · Nov 4, 2011

Here are some graphs produced with my Dyno for interest. I've got some calibrating and experimenting to do before I will be able to produce "proffessional" looking graphs, but I know you'll appreciate the data.
These graphs are NOT reccomendations from Agni on safe power useage, they are purely my assesments on peak and continuous power.

For the watercooling experiment, I used a normal windscreen washer pump trowing a little distilled water through the holes in the circumference of the motor to spray on the outer edge of the armature just to show how effective it could be. Obviously there is a great deal of potential here to increase continuous power rating significantly.
I do have (and have used at the track) a proper temperature controlled high pressure pump and very fine misting jet that produces far better results, but have yet to find time to hook it all up to the dyno and tune it. When I do, I'll add results here..

Jozzer · Nov 4, 2011

Here are some pics of Jozztek's Dyno. We made this to test one or two motors at full power to assist with race setup and balancing. With much help from Methods (who can be hired for this kind of work at reasonable rates!) we have some fancy software that takes data from several devices and calculates/logs the results.
Data comes in via tow Cycle Analysts (RPM, battery voltage and current etc), 2 datalogging multimeters (for recording actual motor voltages), and an Arduino board measuring motor currents (x4) via hall sensors and motor temps (X4).
Power is supplied via a 120v 1200A Kelly controller, and regen is handled by another of the same, so I have complete control over speed and load. Perhaps this will later be "automated" to run via the microcontroller too, so I can run set test patterns and perhaps even simulate real life power/load conditions (like full race circuits).
Power is taken from and returned too a small 25AH 110v LiPo pack so there is as little wastage as possible. (in fact, there is absolutely NO wastage as far as I'm concerned, any lost power goes into keeping my lab warm and toasty in the long UK winter months, and encouraging me to fire up the Dyno first thing every day with my morning cuppa!).

Jozzer · Nov 4, 2011

AND! The soon to be released Agni Monster motor (compared to a 95R)

I don't have much info on the final release version of this motor yet, except Agni should be ready to ship this year, I expect 25KW+ continuous and a good 50KW peak.
The versions I have currently have handmade brushholders that don't line the brushes up perfectly or hold them particularly steadily, so I have not been able to confirm this yet.
Max RPM 4000, 40something RPM/V seems likely (maybe lower for a 120v system), 21KG and 290mm outer diameter..

liveforphysics · Nov 4, 2011

That's super awesome Jozz! I love it! I think most ever agni-using TTXGP bike will be able to just swap over, bolting on better performance with minimal effort. That's great!

Jozzer · Nov 4, 2011

Yup, most vehicles could just swap over (though the 111RDR is 15mm longer than the 95R, so some extra space required).
This motor seems to take abuse much better than the 95R, so the extra cost might be worthwhile for someone wanting a super reliable 72 or 84 system too..

Just to show that no brushes were zorched in the making of that 600A graph..(sorry Luke, I'm sure you'd prefer to see them at whatever current it takes to make them curl up and die :mrgreen:

)

Steve

liveforphysics · Nov 4, 2011

That jumbo Agni is making me drool.

Jozzer · Nov 4, 2011

Yeah I'm really looking forward to seeing what that can do when properly set up. I've used it as the generator on my Dyno being driven by 2 95R's and it took everything they could throw at it. It has great cooling potential as it is now, but the vent holes are large enough to get your tounge/fingers caught in with ease so there may be alterations in the final product. 50% more brushes should mean 50% more peak current all other things being equal (which they are not)..
These motors have been a long time coming, the one pictured here was handbuilt for last years TTXGP world final race, but easily overwhelmed the controllers already fitted to the bike that had been chosen for the 95R's used in the previous races. They have some of these monsters built in the factory though, all they are waiting for are a batch of brushholders..

Jozz

Ariane · Nov 4, 2011

Hi Steve,

Those motor are impressive but no Hub or Brushless motor in the future for Agni's ?

Good day!
Black Arrow

Spacey · Nov 4, 2011

I reckon one of those new Agni's would go lovely in a Cagiva Mito 125

bearing · Nov 4, 2011

I believe CRP Racing are using a Mito frame on their eCRP with double Agni 95R. It sure looks like it anyway.

Jozzer · Nov 4, 2011

BlackArrow said:
Hi Steve,

Those motor are impressive but no Hub or Brushless motor in the future for Agni's ?

Good day!
Black Arrow

Hi Bruno, Patience....one day...

bearing said:
I believe CRP Racing are using a Mito frame on their eCRP with double Agni 95R. It sure looks like it anyway.

It's actually an inhouse built chassis with incorperated motor mounts, but does indeed look similar..
EVAndy or EVmotorcycle.org was working on an electric Mito some time back, but his site appears to be down.
I'll be trying one in my Aprilia RS125 if we have another sunny snap, lower RPM/v and more torque will certainly do that bike a favour (gearing choice is limited by tight swingarm clearances). The bike is already at 96v and has a big beefy controller fitted..

AussieJester · Nov 4, 2011

Prediction:- when CHRiS (jonescg) sees these
Motors, he will get a bonner :mrgreen:

Thanks for the detailed preview Jozzer...

KiM

liveforphysics · Nov 4, 2011

BlackArrow said:
Hi Steve,

Those motor are impressive but no Hub or Brushless motor in the future for Agni's ?

Good day!
Black Arrow

I was at dinner with Cedric, and I asked him this very question.

He said, yes, he can make brush-less motors, and it's cheaper and easier to make, and he has the design to do it. Then he hit me with a show-stopping question. He asked what I would do with it if I had one... I had to say, "umm... I guess I would use it for a neat paper weight on my desk."

This is because he knows we had spent weeks of work on the dyno trying to setup examples of the best BLDC controllers in the world to operate on motors setup with low resistance and inductance, and ended up with NOTHING WORKING in a useful way, even with $3,000 controllers and engineers flying out from the controller companies to try to set them up, and still getting garbage performance that the brushed Agni crushed in efficiency, power, torque, torque control, etc.

I hate the idea of spinning copper rather than magnets as much as anyone, but until the controller technology arrives, the brush carrier is a damn efficient, light weight, and robust(when setup correctly) way to get the job done.

Jozzer · Nov 4, 2011

liveforphysics said:
BlackArrow said:

Hi Steve,

Those motor are impressive but no Hub or Brushless motor in the future for Agni's ?

Good day!
Black Arrow

Click to expand...

I was at dinner with Cedric, and I asked him this very question.

He said, yes, he can make brush-less motors, and it's cheaper and easier to make, and he has the design to do it. Then he hit me with a show-stopping question. He asked what I would do with it if I had one... I had to say, "umm... I guess I would use it for a neat paper weight on my desk."

This is because he knows we had spent weeks of work on the dyno trying to setup examples of the best BLDC controllers in the world to operate on motors setup with low resistance and inductance, and ended up with NOTHING WORKING in a useful way, even with $3,000 controllers and engineers flying out from the controller companies to try to set them up, and still getting garbage performance that the brushed Agni crushed in efficiency, power, torque, torque control, etc.

I hate the idea of spinning copper rather than magnets as much as anyone, but until the controller technology arrives, the brush carrier is a damn efficient, light weight, and robust(when setup correctly) way to get the job done.

Nicely put..

jonescg · Nov 4, 2011

KiM: I don't have a boner over Agni motors. But I do have a hot-cold relationship with them

My bike is currently set up to only make use of Agnis, and these thicker magnet varieties will be just the ticket. The jumbo Agnis are not much use to me, but could be useful for different bikes, but I don't know about a pair of them.

Lemmie know when you have some of these 111's ready Jozz, and hopefully you can make use of the burned Agnis I send back :mrgreen:

AussieJester · Nov 4, 2011

Oh don't tell fibs now CHRiS, you had a semi when you saw dem pics Jozzer posted :mrgreen:

Seriously though,hope they slot in the RG easily for you buddy..

KiM

jonescg · Nov 4, 2011

Yeah, I'm sure they'll be fine. Jozzer will look after me

Now, I should probably get dressed for my wedding

Kings Park @ 2.30 pm

AussieJester · Nov 5, 2011

NooOooO CHRiS dont do it hehehe.. :mrgreen:

I got married at Kings Park myself GREAT location!!

all the best to you and the 'missus to be' ...say good by to your road racing career...and sex :mrgreen:

KiM

Jozzer · Nov 5, 2011

RUUUN Chris, RUN!

Spacey · Nov 5, 2011

Congrats dude

grindz145 · Nov 5, 2011

Jozz, that is GORGEOUS. Drooling big time.

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