Metallover's 9c Blackcomb Build

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Re: Metallover's 9c Blackcomb Build

Postby beast775 » Thu Jan 28, 2010 10:13 am

watching this build like a hawk. :shock: ...im afraid you need a few fuses.a few connectors you have look like they will let go under load.might save your pack?but great build so far.im getting something close to what your running.take it easy 8)
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Re: Metallover's 9c Blackcomb Build

Postby rechargeourfuture » Thu Jan 28, 2010 1:20 pm

Sad how we buy and sell R/C like stocks hey? I've had so many cars and planes in the past I've lost track. Always making room and justifying buying this and that. "I'll just sell that one instead and it's like I'm getting this one for free" ya right... My current "beater" is the new Slash 4x4. Say what you will about Traxxas but they did right on this one. Nothing like a well setup SC10 or Blitz but everyone and their grandma could drive this one: sideways at 40mph. 8)
Your micro-t is rediculous :shock: . Does it flip right over or are those outrunners high kv?

I cannot wait to get the bike project rolling. Waiting on so many things, HobbyCity, Gary's BMS, picking my motor, and getting the blackcomb. Waiting makes ya appreciate it that much more I suppose...

Looks like you have no problem soldering. And yeh I'll admit I've done my share of butt soldering to get by in R/C. I figured that for this project (replacing my current form of transportation) I'd take everything a few steps farther so I don't regret it half way to work. Safety is huge too so I'll be outsourcing the torque plates no matter what motor choice I go with. I may just copy the Doc's design (thanks Doc!).

I hope 4,500mi is just the first step for you. I know a full size EV is in my future. Let's hope the push from everyone here gets the technology to a point where there is no excuse.

Best of luck again, keep the pictures coming.
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SPECS: 37mph top speed/15miles at 8AH consumed.
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Re: Metallover's 9c Blackcomb Build

Postby Metallover » Thu Jan 28, 2010 9:36 pm

Thanks for the kind words! I only had my micro T running once or twice; it wasn't made to go that fast. :lol: The motors have a lot of trouble syncing up. Once they do it blasts off. I would guess 40-50+mph. It almost went under a running lawnmower and the motor mount bent, so I took it in for the day. I have rewound one motor and once I stop being lazy I'll rewind the other motor. The lower kv should make it usable. :twisted: Good luck on your Ebike! :D

I was doing more research on a rear disc brake adapter, when I realized there are brakes built into the controller which brake the motor. I don't know if it will do any regen, but that isn't needed for my use. What is a good regen/e-brake I can install that will work with my ecrazy man controller? I assume it's proportional, not on/off?

OR is the brake plug just used to break the throttle circut to prevent gassing it and braking at the same time?? :shock:

Off to a search!

And I realized I didn't have a good full-body shot on here. Here's a before/after shot! It will probably never be done, but here's some pics anyway... :mrgreen:

before
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after
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Re: Metallover's 9c Blackcomb Build

Postby Metallover » Sun Jan 31, 2010 2:07 pm

I am set on getting some rear brakes now... I am asking around for junk bikes with woking v-brakes.

Here is my ride log I made - http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= ... sYfg&hl=en
Let me know what you think or if it can use any improvements. I'm approaching 30mi and I have saved over $4.50 on gas! (if I would have just driven around for no reason at all, of course :wink: )

I have a short video. The one kid's name is chuck, he's a little odd, and I was going to race him. His bike (which cost more then my ebike! :shock: ) wasn't working, and he kinda knew something was up, so we never raced. :( :lol:

And no full face helmet yet... I was really scared of the ice on the side of the road.. I hope that melts soon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RfP5q3sfjU
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Re: Metallover's 9c Blackcomb Build

Postby SilverSurfer » Mon Feb 01, 2010 9:49 pm

Great adventure! Congrats on the build man.
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Re: Metallover's 9c Blackcomb Build

Postby biohazardman » Mon Feb 01, 2010 10:14 pm

Good to see you got it all werqed out and are on the road. Keep an eye on the spoke tension and axle nuts they may need to be tightened up now and then. It takes alot of miles for these things to pay for themselves and may not even happen if you constantly upgrade like many. Still it is a great hobby/addiction to have and enjoy.
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Re: Metallover's 9c Blackcomb Build

Postby johnrobholmes » Tue Feb 02, 2010 9:39 am

stealth!! All I hear is tire on road noise. Very cool.
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Re: Metallover's 9c Blackcomb Build

Postby lutach » Tue Feb 02, 2010 11:14 am

Nice bike.
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Re: Metallover's 9c Blackcomb Build

Postby Metallover » Tue Feb 02, 2010 9:15 pm

Thanks guys! Never thought about the noise... Guess that's because I never heard anything in the first place!! :mrgreen:

I am not an expert bike mechanic, what are some tips for maintaining wheels/spokes? How do I know if they need to be tightened?

I got another few inches of snow so I'll wait until that melts off before I do any more riding... There's ice underneath and there will probably be more ice when the snow melts so riding would be a little trecherous.. :shock:
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Re: Metallover's 9c Blackcomb Build

Postby Bobocop » Sat Feb 06, 2010 2:29 pm

Metallover wrote:Also, awhile back I bought a few neodymium magnets. One holds 130lbs and it ripped a hole in my pocket when it stuck to a pole.


:lol: :lol: I couldn't stop laughing for 10 minutes when i read that :lol: :D
and i still laugh every time i think about it :D
How long were you stuck to the pole for ? :D

Nice build Metallover,
I'm going to order one of these 9c motors for one of my choppers, (haven't decided from where yet) and i think i'll change the hub wires (like you did) as soon as i get it,

Doe's the motor get hot at all on 66v ?
or do you think it can still handle up to the 72v your controller is rated for?
Last edited by Bobocop on Sat Feb 06, 2010 6:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Metallover's 9c Blackcomb Build

Postby csmarr » Sat Feb 06, 2010 6:05 pm

Nice build! You might want to put that battery rack on with u- bolts. Those hose clamps will break at the absolute worst time and mess you up! It looks like you can put two u-bolts more or less where the clamps are. I would use nyloc nuts and put epoxy/ mighty putty between the rack and the bike frame with the putty wrapping around to the loop part of the frame to give you a little more lateral stability. Yep definitely a BA build.
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Re: Metallover's 9c Blackcomb Build

Postby Metallover » Sun Feb 07, 2010 9:00 am

Thanks guys! I haven't ridden it at temps much above freezing so I can't really comment on motor temps.. It hasn't gotten warm yet. :) If you plan on running at 72v with sub-freezing temps I'd say you'd be fine. :lol:

I was only stuck to the pole for a few seconds; it was patience that killed me! :lol: I could have slid it off but instead I made a run for it. The magnet stayed; I didn't. 8)

U-BOLTS :!: Thanks for posting that! That is just so much better then my solution! I'll try to grab a few next trip to the hardware store.

I woke up this morning to a few inches of fresh snow so I think I'll keep the bike in today. Especially because there's ice under the snow... Coming back from powerlifting yesterday I saw 3 or 4 crashes on the interstate.. You think people would learn to drive in SD, but every winter it seems like people just forget everything and drive like idiots. :roll:

Wt-148 Squat-225 Bench-165 DL-230 Will get way more deadlift next year after I get my form down.. I took er easy this year

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Re: Metallover's 9c Blackcomb Build

Postby johnrobholmes » Sun Feb 07, 2010 10:54 am

Powerlifting, now that is a sport I can relate to! Too bad my knees started giving out last year. Squat and DL are my favorite exercises with exception to power cleans.
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Re: Metallover's 9c Blackcomb Build

Postby Metallover » Sun Feb 07, 2010 1:53 pm

Powerlifting is a great sport, although injuries are fairly common. I've been lifting for a year and the past couple weeks my wrist started hurting a little (from cleans/pushups) so I'm going to consider getting it taped. Lifting isn't nearly as dangerous as sports like football or soccer, but it's not 100% safe. My coach really stresses form, especially with lower body, so I hope I can continue to stay healthy. :)

I love lifting! Not only does it give me something to look forward to during school (except calculator mario/tetris), but it is addicting! It's a great social activity! It's fun to have pullup wars and push other people as they push you doing more and more weight. I challenge myself not to take any protein/drugs at least until the cross country season. If I do that I might have to give in and take some protein.. :roll:

I just made an order at hobbycity for some wire mesh covering and I got a new camera. :D :D

http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/stor ... duct=10973
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Here is a thread where I posted some specifics and video examples at post 50 and 52- http://www.rc-monster.com/forum/showthr ... 131&page=4

A review of it here (with a different SD card) - http://terracode.com/AEE_MiniDV/AEE_Mini_DV_P1.html
And some vids from a hobbycity review


More videos are on the way! I'll attach it to the bike or my body/helmet once I get it. Should have some pretty nice vids!

I ordered 10mm, 6mm, and a little 3mm wires mesh. 3mm black was out of stock so I got 3mm blue; the rest is black. It should make the bike look a whole lot cleaner!! :mrgreen:
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Re: Metallover's 9c Blackcomb Build

Postby Metallover » Sat Feb 13, 2010 3:35 pm

Well, time for an update. My order for the camera and wire mesh has supposedly shipped, but there is no tracking info yet. It should be here in a couple weeks. :D There's a note that hobbycity employees are on vacation until wednesday, and I'm pretty sure they got my order out, but I'm not 100% sure.

Yesterday I got out for a ride. It was a pretty icy, but I stayed up the whole time. I rode a little slower and didn't go full throttle more then a couple times. Apparently I got just under 30wh/mi where previously I was getting 37-40. I guess it's possible because I didn't do as much stopping/accelerating and I went slow. Hopefully that efficiency continues. At 30wh/mi I'll have a 22mi range, which is awesome! :mrgreen: Here's a link to my log again if you're curious - http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= ... sYfg&hl=en

U-BOLTS!! 8) I got some u-bolts put on. They cost me $6 total; dang local true value. :| They are 1.5" and I had to whack 'em on there a little to fit around the pipe/welds, but I had to take a grinder to the battery...thing. I thought about it overnight and decided that would be better then trying to bend the bolts around the battery thing then back in to fit the... u-bolt.. connecting piece.

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It turned out really good. It is solid as ever. The groves I cut on the battery thing will prevent sliding of the battery thing and the angle of the top u-bolt should prevent vertical movement on the frame as well as give a little lateral support.

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And as always, it turned out pretty ghetto and redneck. I wouldn't have it any other way. :D

I also realized the my helmet is pretty cool. It goes great with my maroon facemask and blue bandanna and red/tan sunglasses. My gloves go great with my coat. I also wear some wool socks with regular jeans and running shoes. Full face helmet will hopefully come this spring!

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BUT no riding today because... It snowed again. We got 2-3 inches so far and it was <~400' visibility earlier when I had to drive.. It's really nice temp out tho and if there wasn't ice under all the snow I'd be out there tearing it up. I've got the burnouts while leaning towards the front just about down.

I got a lot done today so far. Baseball, hung a tennis ball from the ceiling so I can pull my pickup in to the right spot so you can walk in front of it, I installed my u-bolts, and I think I'll continue shoveling in my shorts and t-shirt. :D I love tankin it up even when it's below freezing. :lol:

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My dad said I will have to start paying for gas this summer. Well, I've got this bike now so I guess it won't be that bad. :mrgreen: I only get 12mpg in the winter in my pickup.. :cry: I'll have to start working again. It's good but bad at the same time because I don't have time during weekdays. Summer I'll have time tho. :)

Comments/concerns/criticism welcome. :wink:
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Re: Metallover's 9c Blackcomb Build

Postby johnrobholmes » Sat Feb 13, 2010 3:46 pm

Your watt/hour usage will go back up when you get traction again :twisted:


I want to see you with that helmet, I bet it is awesome :mrgreen:
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Re: Metallover's 9c Blackcomb Build

Postby Metallover » Sat Feb 13, 2010 4:30 pm

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Re: Metallover's 9c Blackcomb Build

Postby Metallover » Sat Feb 13, 2010 11:20 pm

I got to thinkin about my to-do list and the no-spark circuit that is on it. I did a little lookin then decided that instead of buying a resistor that I would just throw crap together. I looked at some resistor color charts and found a 330ohm resistor from an old RC transmitter board. It's a little part and I'm not sure if it'll last because it is so small, but it works great now.

I used BrianG's do-it-all rc site - http://www.scriptasylum.com/rc_speed/index.html
Here's the no spark calculator - http://www.scriptasylum.com/rc_speed/_nospark.html

I used 3 or 3.5mm bullet plugs and the old phase wires from the hubmotor. :wink:

The pictures don't do it much justice, but I don't think a video would be worth the trouble. I still get a very small spark but it isn't a massive lightning show like it used to be.

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I used some hot glue and part of a zip-tie to support the lil leads on the resistor
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If you don't know how it works, you plug in the black lead, plug in your no-spark circut (the small connectors), then plug in the main red lead. The spark should be gone if you do your math right. :mrgreen:

Once again, it looks a little ghetto and it won't last forever. I'll have to pick up some bigger shrink next time I have a chance. Electrical tape will do for now! :D
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Re: Metallover's 9c Blackcomb Build

Postby Metallover » Sat Feb 20, 2010 5:10 pm

I went out for a ride today. :D It was 32 degrees f! Very nice weather. I went on my longest ride (without stopping) yet - 9.75mi... And I want to go more!

I had the Turngy Watt Meter hooked up to one 6s battery.(not the whole 6x6s pack) I got the following information-

3.661ah used
84.1wh used (*3=252.3)
23.01a max
512.5w max (*3=1537.5)
22.0v min

I connected the meter to one 6s pack. Any figures dealing with amps are probably right, and anything dealing with watts I should be able to multiply by 3.

1538w max aint half bad! Does that sound right for a 26" 9c on 66v?

I am thinking the "ah used" figure is pretty accurate; I'll check when my pack comes off my hyperion 0610i RC charger.

I am surprised on how low my max amp draw was. I checked the temp of the motor (with my hand) after some big hills and it was just a little warm. The controller was cold. According to the watt meter, my pack only sagged down to 22v. Wow! That's 3.67v/cell! Nominal is 3.7v!.... I LOVE my setup!!!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: I love my E-bike! :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

It handled hills like a champ. I found a couple of the biggest hills in my town (this is SD so don't expect much..) and I barely slowed down! No cries of mercy from the motor/controller! And if I only pulled 23a the bike must not have even struggled at all! When I went down the hill, my front rotor was HOT!

Gravel roads are bad. They are worse when half of it is covered in ice, there is a good flow of water running down it, and it's muddy as hell!I wouldn't recommend taking gravel roads when they are wet, unless you don't mind going slow and getting muddy. :wink:

My camera was supposed to have left china on the 18th. Hopefully it gets here by the end of the month. When I get it I'll make some sweet vids with it. 8)

EDIT - Today was rough on efficiency. I didn't know how much hard riding would effect efficiency. The ah number I got, 3.661, means that I took 3.661ah out of 5ah of that one pack. My charger put in 20.433ah@22.2v which comes out to 3.41ah/battery. That means I used 2/3 my availible charge. I only got 46.5wh/mi which would've given me a range of just over 14 miles.

Watt meter said I used 3.66ah
My charger said I used 3.41ah

I am thinking the watt meter, VT monitor, and lvc I had all hooked up to that one battery drew an extra ~.15ah which means it is drawing about .3a.

Someday I'll re-do the battery case and make some type of bms..
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Re: Metallover's 9c Blackcomb Build

Postby Metallover » Sun Feb 28, 2010 10:14 pm

I got some brakes! These are Avid Single Digit 5's. I got them at a local bike shop for $25 bucks. They were the only v-brakes they carried, and I think they are some pretty decent brakes for the price. I found them for $14 on Jensons but shipping would have upped the cost and by buying locally I got them instantly. :)

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I had to do some grinding on the frame and ghetto these brakes on because I was supposed to use some $14 brake post studs that screw into the mounts on the frame. After looking for an hour or two I found some bolts from another bike that screw into the back. The final result is very solid and I am very happy with it.

After riding around I have to say that these brakes rock! They are probably better then the stock disc brakes on the bike! I did notice the grooves in the rim and that might help these out.. From full speed I was able to stop wayy faster then I used to be able to. Me and the bike weigh a total of 220lbs. I would definately recommend these brakes.

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I was curious about the balance of my batteries,as they haven't been balanced in about 5 runs. Most of the packs had cells off by .1 to .2v. Right now I am balancing each pack induvidually on my hyperion charger. I have been looking for a better charging solution then what I have, and if I do switch to a ps-based system, I am definately going to balance my packs every 5 runs or so. Every week if I ride often enough. I saw KiM's disaster and now I am going to be extra-cautious.

If anyone goes to a ps charger, I would recommend getting a rc charger or balancer. This is a good balancer (that might require a charger too) - http://www.allerc.com/product_info.php?products_id=2916

As I was balancing the packs, I found that in pack six I may have a weak cell. :( Cell #4 is reading 4.10v when the rest are reading 4.18v. I will keep a close eye on it. This just backs up my point of why it is important to have proper balancing equipment. One damaged cell could take many with it, and that could domino and ruin all of your packs. :shock:

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20 days after I ordered my camera and wire mesh it still hasn't done much. Latest news I have on it is that it shipped out on the 18th.. What can I say the shipping is supposed to take 6-39 days; that's half up. I also learned that it is the chinese new year, and most if not everyone in china has a week off. :cry:

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I downloaded some software for my garmin 201. Here's a couple pics of my ride. I can also upload the file to a website and get some different maps and charts. You can make almost anything you want. Once I get my map overlayed with color-coded speed I'll post it up. Here is what the garmin software tells me

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My run today was 20 miles long. :mrgreen: I went fast for awhile then decided to go out of town. I turned around when I felt I needed and made it back just in time. I had used about 9.5/10ah from my pack. My efficiency today was 32.1wh/mi. I think a 25mi range and sub-30wh/mi efficiency is doable if I take it easier on the throttle. :D

As of now I have 61 miles on my bike and I have "saved" $10.36 in gas. :wink:

Also for the first time I recorded some temps. This was the first time anything was warm. It was 35f out and I had my batteries in the case and wraoped in a towl. The batteries and motor were 80f; the controller was cold. The batteries would probably be cold without the towl, but the motor will probably heat up more in warmer temps.

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And finally I am getting tired of charging FOREVER. It's been 4.5 hours and my pack is only 2/3 the way charged. :roll: After looking into a ps-based charging system I think I am going to get a 400w ps (400w will charge at 250w easily after losses) so I can charge at 10a (insted of 5a).

I hope to make a hard battery case with a switch built in so that I can go from 18s to 6s quickly. Any suggestions for switches let me know. I need to know what kind of switches I'll need for the lowest resistance. If I parallel my batteries I'll have 3 sets of +/- leads so I would need a 3pdt switch? 6pdt? three dpdt?
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Re: Metallover's 9c Blackcomb Build

Postby Metallover » Mon Mar 01, 2010 10:12 pm

Small update for monday
____

I got a pink slip in my mailbox saying that something from china was in town. I will go and pick it up tomorrow. I have a thread on another forum, I'll post a link to it where me and a few other people will be testing/reviewing it.

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I did some cleaning today! I took off the rear deraileur and scrubbed er good. The shifting has been out since I got the bike electrified, so I finally got around to adjusting the endpoints and cable tension so I get all 7 gears and the chain doesn't come off. The chain isn't in good shape, but I cleaned it with water as best as I could then I oiled er up. I read chain lube is the way to go and you should never oil the chain, but this chain has been oiled before (not by me) and it was past the point of no return.

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I fear I have some loose spokes. I found out when I hopped on the test the minor adjustments I made on my brakes; riding at very slow speeds with weight on the bike. It sounded like a zip tie or similar was hitting the spokes. Turns out they were loose. I tightened the loose ones I found with a pliers then I tightened em all 1/4 turn. They all aren't perfect but it is better then it was before. I would appreciate some info on tightening of the spokes if anyone could..

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Final charge time was 5hrs 48min. :o I put in 26.968ah out of 30ah. The Watt meter said Iused 5.5%/.55ah more then the charger put back in. :shock: I don't know which one is right or wrong. :|

The cell that was low the other night is doing fine now. I balanced the pack for a couple hours and after the last run all the cells were balanced again. Here's a shot of the voltages before balancing and topping off before my last run.

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I just realized I can get a 24v PS when I buy my new one from this pic!

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I have done some more thinking on the switching between 66v and 22v. I figure the best way to do it is to get a bunch of andersons. I'll have 3 sets connected out of the battery, and I'll be able to plug in one to make it 3s for discharge and another plug hooked up to the charger for 3p. You probably have no idea of what I'm talking about but some time in the future you'll see it all come together. :)

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The weather is looking great so I hope to do more riding in the future. It's supposed to be 30-35f all week! I shouldn't fell too good though; we are supposed to get another 30" of snow.. wtf? :roll:

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Check out the links in my sig, especially my ride log. It's come a long way and it's got more information then you will ever need. :D
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Re: Metallover's 9c Blackcomb Build

Postby johnrobholmes » Mon Mar 01, 2010 11:28 pm

Personally, I wouldn't fool with a voltage switch. You can do a similar speed limit with your controller, and it will be much less risky for your batteries and wiring! Having such a switch isn't good for the resistance of system either.


A somewhat hack way of tightening a wheel when you don't know your baseline- first you need a spoke wrench. Just make one from some scrap 1/4" steel, if you have the stock spokes it isn't a standard wrench size. Tighten them all until they are very close in pitch when you pluck them. Get them good and tight, and put oil on the nipple /rim junction so they don't gall as you wrench them. From there you can adjust the tension to straighten the rim. I normally tighten the wheel to bring it into true, but sometimes you may need to loosen a spoke here and there. Just play around with it for a while, you will likely get the hang of it. If you want to keep the nipples tight, a small spot of blue locktight down the spoke / nipple junction will help. Just don't overdo it or it will be a bitch to true up later.
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Re: Metallover's 9c Blackcomb Build

Postby Metallover » Tue Mar 02, 2010 10:38 pm

I got my Hobbycity order today! In it was the wire mesh and my camera.

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The Wire Mesh

I like this stuff a lot! It looks really clean and professional. It does a great job of hiding all the wires.

I ordered 2mm, 6mm, and 10mm. The 3mm is too small for about anything at least e-bike related to I set that aside. The measurement appears to be the width of the mesh set flat, which is how it comes.

-The 10mm is great for larger wires. I have 3 10ga wires and a 10ga-equivalent hall wire set in my 10mm.

-The 6mm stuff is perfect. It is the stuff to stock up on. You can use it for a few 12ga wires, all your throttle wires, little misc. wires running up to your handlebars... This stuff is awesome.

This stuff works like a finger trap you may have had as a kid. It gets tighter if you pull on it and looser if you push it together. The more you streach it out, the more transparent it gets. Transparency might become a problem if you try to stuff too many wires into it. You can also double it up if you want, but I don't think it is neccessary.

The 6 and 10mm costs $.50/meter. I will be buying much more in the future. :mrgreen:

BEFORE
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AFTER (I used a stun gun case I had lying around to try and cover up the wires coming right out of the controller)
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Close-Ups

6mm
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10mm
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The Camera

At first I was amazed at how small it is. I expected it to be bigger. It is 2 1/4" tall and 3/4" length and width at it's widest points.

It didn't come with any instructions, and it needs to be hooked up with the included usb cord and charged a little before it will turn on. It doesn't really need any instructions to tell the truth.

I did a couple short video tests, but I wont post anything until this weekend, if the weather is good. As of now, inside, the video quality is pretty bad, if you're moving. It really smears movement. The resolution is great standing still; hopefully it will be better outside withe more light.

This might be due to the SD card tho, and I will probably get another one if the video ends up bad. We'll have to see.

Image

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Updates this weekend!
Last edited by Metallover on Sun Mar 07, 2010 11:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Metallover's 9c Blackcomb Build

Postby Metallover » Wed Mar 03, 2010 10:00 pm

I couldn't stop myself from updating. I made a very shot test video of the camera; there will be a much better one this weekend.

my photobucket vid - http://s345.photobucket.com/albums/p382 ... ytest2.flv

I moved the controller to a better spot. I had to put it upside down to fit, but even upside down the controller looks a lot better then it used to.

Image

The clanliness of the rest of the bike will hopefully motivate me enough to redo the battey holder! :P
Last edited by Metallover on Wed Mar 03, 2010 10:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Metallover's 9c Blackcomb Build

Postby Hyena » Wed Mar 03, 2010 10:25 pm

Your controller looks better there,much neater.

Metallover wrote:As of now, inside, the video quality is pretty bad, if you're moving. It really smears movement. The resolution is great standing still; hopefully it will be better outside withe more light.

This might be due to the SD card tho, and I will probably get another one if the video ends up bad. We'll have to see.

I have one too and that's pretty much how they are. They basically decrease the shutter speed to let in enough light and then it ends up smeary. Alot of camera aren't brilliant in low light and for $20 you can't expect too much!
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