Dogmans 6x10 trials dirtbike.

As I suspected, the 6x10 Rear Hub 9 continent is a great motor for low speed riding in the dirt. Set up on the vintage Mongoose FS that has the nice fat steel rear dropouts, It handles great for a rear hub with the battery also carried in the rear. It's ideal riding it 10 mph down twisty singletrack, but handles extended riding at 5 mph too without overheating. Not a blazing day today, but 88F and no humidity. I was able to ride a full hour, climbing hills so steep I had to get off and walk up a few of them, constantly on off on off the throttle, constantly stalling it at 5 mph full throttle, not pedaling at all unless I was stuck. No problem, after an hour of this the motor temp was only 155F, and never did anything but climb very slowly. On a nicer trail, able to ride 10 mph the whole hour, it would have stayed even cooler.

So there you have it, finally a more affordable motor for riding single track than an x5, and it works much better than a small gearmotor using 400 watts.

No it's not perfect, on a steep bit, it will respond very very sluggishly, but once you get back to 10 mph, it rides beautifully up and down fairly steep stuff as long as you can stay on and keep it on the singletrack.

Too bad there's only a few of these motors left, and then they'll be gone. But most people don't want to ride slow, dirt or otherwise. I just happen to like twisty hard to ride trails so much I built 6 miles of it near my house.

Here's the pic of it. Just a few more things to sort out, like a diagonal brace on that rear rack, and a rear hub mounted kick stand. Mabye a handlebar bag to carry a drink now that it's hot.View attachment 1

I see you are liking that 6x10 I do too.. So is that Mongoose about what I posted a link to earlier- the xrcomp ? the xrcomp did have disc brakes but otherwise close? I see that has a dart fork. Upgrade? Also are you running it at 36 or 48 v ?

Its a vintage IBOX. Pehaps aroung 2000? Seaching mongoose IBOX yeilded tons of different bikes over the years. The RS dart fork is something I added, it came with a steel fork. Rim brakes. Pogo stick shock. But I bought it for the huge dropouts on the steel rear swingarm. The suspension sucks but at 5 mph I can tolerate it. Hard not to put the motor on my specialized FRS though. But even in the hot of summer, there are days I want the feel of a pure pedal on the singletrack. At present I run it at either 36v or 48, but mostly 48v ping. But lipo is in the shipping So a 72v test will be happening.

I keep talking about the 6x10 in a 20" wheel because like you I want a trials type setup. Don't care if I go over 15 mph. Only thing is the pedal clearance to ground. But looking at it I am thinking that maybe on certain frames I could install a longer/ better rear shock and get the ride height back up some. I guess I'll have to find a cheap donor to experiment with and see if it can be done succesfully.

In my other new thread, you can see some failed attempts. 24" wheel in 24" frame with 26" front wheel didn't work, handling sucked. At least the current bike balances nice even if the suspension is not so good. Maybe 20" wheels front and back would work, with disk, or just 24" front and back. Pegs instead of pedals, or short bmx kids bike crankset. But then you stuff the wheels into holes instead of rolling over. It's a dilemma. I'm thinking 20s lipo will be interesting though, on a faster riding dirt road. This setup is so much better than othre failed attemtps, that I'm pretty happy now. Beats a weak gearmotor, or a melted overvolted gearmotor.

Still think the ideal may be the puma or BMC, neither of which I've tried yet. The heinsmann was great, in the winter. This one looks ok to run in the summer though.

Just went back and checked your bike list. Sure glad we've got you here to try this stuff you have tried a lot of combinations. Good points on the handling and the smaller wheel dropping in holes instead of over them. I am on such a tight string right now that I won't be able to try much for awhile. Sure is good to have the knowledge base here so when the time does come I won't be throwing good money after bad. Maybe dual 24" would be a good compromise for a little more lowend thrust.

Yes, lots of guys are doing that, 26" disk bike with 24" wheels. But the tire avaliablity sucks for 24". All my nice off road tires are 26" like the maxxis mobster 2.7's on my pedaler. The tire I had on my 24" bike was all skinny and squirrely with shitty traction in dirt or rough rocks.

This bike has a pretty nice 2.5 rear tire on it that floats in the sand nice.

Took the bike up to the singletracks in the Dona Anna mts yesterday. Those trails were built by a MTB racing club so they tend to ride nice at 20 mph. The bike did real nice, only pedaling at all on the very steepest bits. Many of the dips are ridable with no pedaling at all up the steep side since the uphill is short, and follwed by another gully crossing. So you get a great roller coaster effect at 15-20 mph. Faster could be possible, but not with a cheapie rockshox front fork. On the way back I took an electric line road that has been my favorite dirt bike run for 30 years. But it's unridable on a MTB because of deep sand and steeper hills than the trails.

No problemo, I blasted the road WOT going between 15 and 20 mph, past tracks of a bike that had been walked through it. Arriving at the parking, I come flying up the arroyo and up a deeply rutted mega steep hill to the lot, catching some air over the lip. Parking lot of guys at thier cars with eyes bugged out. " How's it going today?" "Great with a motor!" I reply. Most people coming over that lip are walking thier bikes, but with my trials bike, I flew!

I didn't carry the CA, but charge time showed about half the 48v 15 ah pack was used to run up and down 6.3 miles including about 2000 feet of vertical, plus vertical added by all the dips. On an 80F morning, the motor never got above 120F. Probobally will be able to ride like that even when it's 100F!

Oh Hell yeah!

Back to the mountains with more time today. With CA. 19 miles of riding took 13.2 ah, aprox 620 watthours. That's twice as far as any other setup has taken me charging up those hills all morning.

Really really nice to run circles all morning around a bunch of sweating like pigs pedalers. Skipping the bike eating upper loop sections with the stone staircase I rode about 80% of the trail system. The sweetest part was blasting up a deep gravel arroyo trail that you never want to travel in the uphill direction. Just marvelous riding it uphill, burping the throttle to grab a bit more in every corner. It felt a hell of a lot like a skiing a powder run through the trees used to. Just in the zone, totally in harmony with the trail, the bike, the motor. 8) I love that place where time slows to the speed you choose, and you just dial it all in.

What a great setup, 19 miles of nonstop riding as hard as I could, up, down, rarely pedaling unless the hill just got too steep, and I could hold my hand on the motor the whole time. Max temp measured on the axle was 110, so I doubt I ever had it over 150F, on a 85Fday. Riding all I want in 105 weather is looking possible.

None of the other motors I've tried, Aotema brushed, Heinzmann, Aotema brushless, Fusin, 5304, could do this much mountain singletrack riding at 10-20 mph without getting hotter than hell, if not melting. This 9 continent 6x10 keeps its cool on 48v 22 amps.

Gotta do better on the battery box though. On one big woopdedoo I lost the pin that keeps the lactch on the box secured. Next thing I know the ping flies over my shoulder and lands on the dirt in front of the bike. :lol: No problem, I put a thick protective layer over my batts, this one has plastic from a storage box for the armor.

Wow Dogman, Battery over the shoulder, that must be a first!

Sounds like this bike needs an air shock on the back and some strong old triple clamp forks on the front. If you want to measure your rear shock length, I might have an air shock that would improve that pogo spring you got right now.

I like how you describe being in the "zone", best feeling in the world, IMHO.

Yeah, I have two much better bikes than that piece of crap. But the pos does have steel dropouts almost 3/8 thick. Starting to realllly think about putting the motor on this though.

But the crosscountry bike just rides so freaking nice pedaling I just can't bear to ruin it with a motor. The other one is already motorized for commuting. I do still pedal that specialized pretty often when running the dogs. As much as twice a week. Motorized is too fast for the pack to keep up for long runs in summer. This motors butter zone seems to be 10-15 mph.

I do need to get a better rear shock though. Right now the only cure is to crank it down stiff enough to have a short throw. Still enough to fling 15 pounds 4 feet up. :lol: God I wish I had video of that one! The cheap rockshock front fork is not so great compared to the marzocchi bomber on the Specialized, but at least I can ride though a decent trail without going over the bars.

The rear shock is 6.5 inches, or 16.5 cm long if you have some junk ones laying about. Anything with a rebound adjustment, and length from 5-7 inches could be made to work. The local used bike shop is looking for me, but nothing so far but more pogo sticks.

Looks like I just picked up the last Rear Drive 6x10. I was on the sidelines about this motor, it being slower than I would have wanted. I liked you review on it Dogman, it was the deciding factor. I too enjoy riding single track. I'm out riding 2-3 times a week, more if the weather stays good. It sounds like it’s a very efficient setup. I plan to use a custom A123 pack, the frame will be a Tidal Force. I was planning to make this an RC build but will just wait till winter for that project. I’d rather be riding. I usually pedal through out my rides and this motor combination sounds perfect. I have a BMC build in progress, V2 torque. Since I have been jumping a lot lately, reports on gears getting stripped from jumps has me concerned. This setup should allow me to really ride the bike like I want.

How is it as far as being quiet, I hear the 6x7 have a tinny sound on startup? I plan to go with a high voltage pack, so I’m interested in your results when you go higher. I’m currently thinking 16S might be a good number, but need to see how many I can get in the triangle first. Will need to look for a controller now.

16s lifepo4 is what I'm running now, so that is the right number to start at. Should have 20s lipo by mid june for a report of how the motor heats with more watts. But at 16s, you won't pedal much up the milder hills. For me it's perfect, since I don't want more than 20 mph on those trails. But with the 72v, I bet I ride more roads that can be taken at 45.

It's not going to land a jump like a bare pedal bike, but the price is right to beat the crap out of it eh?

It's no louder than any gearmotor I've heard, but louder than my x5 for sure. Mine just makes a kind of zing zing sound.

Again the cool thing about this motor at 48v is it's cool. Every thing else Ive tried gets much much hotter on the same exact ride, making it a winter only thing. Problem is, I'd rather pedal in the winter. Summer is when I just want to ride without pedaling, and then the motor fries, or just makes enough heat to blow your battery.

Sounds like some great tracks you've got there dogman. I thought just riding ebikes on roads was pretty good, but since building a dirtebike, off-road is about 10x more enjoyable for me.
I'm running the GM low rpm motor (not sure of the actual wind count, it has 8 wires per phase, 30mm magnets and wide stator) on 48v 60a and it suits the purpose well, and with cooler running efficiency.
Also, since upping the speed mode to 120% with a programmable controller, top speed has gone from 39kmh to 46kmh on 26" - helps it get out of the doldrums when you want to get a bit of distance. I thought about 24" but the bigger wheels and tyres is good for going over holes rather than into them.

Dogman, that's good to know. Looks like 16S is what I will setup for. Maybe a booster pack if I want to ride it on the streets. I have my other bike for that though. And you are right about the skiing reference. Very much like tree skiing to me without the high costs.

As much as I like to have the torque, changing the geometry of a good mountain bike goes against what I’m after. Some of the newer bikes are using even bigger tires. 29” and wide too! This allows more control in the trails. I like the exercise while assisting the motor. The motor allows me to keep a steady pace and not over exert myself. Especially on hot days. It’s the best workout I have found and I don’t even do for the workout. It’s just super fun to do.

Here's the new bike to put the 6x10 on. Even nicer than the trail system here is the guy running the used bike shop. Fun to hunt for decent bikes super cheap at garage sales, and then trade 2 old vintage hardtails for the likes of this.

Yup, you aren't halucinating. That's a Mongoose blackcomb you see. Possibly one of the top 5 FS frames to make an ebike out of. Why you ask? There's no triangle for the battery! No but the frame is super strong, and see those thick rear dropouts,,, They are STEEL. I have $40 in this bike with superb suspension geometry, steel dropouts, and disk brakes. Sure, the front fork is a cheap one but with preload adjust, and in good shape because the bike got rode just a short time before the owner bent the rear wheel, which I'll be replacing with a motor anyway. The front wheel trued up in about 10 min.
The 6x10 is disk compatible, so i'll be able to keep dual disk for going down those 20% grades.

This bike is pretty primitve and heavy compared to todays FS frames, but you see that exact same two piece swingarm, rocker and shock mount arrangement today on bikes in the $2000, price range. Since this bike was made specifically for riding up a ski lift and going downhill at an entry level price, they have some heavy steel parts on it, like those wonderfull dropouts. It should be easy as pie to convert em to a clamping type dropout with a few bolts, a couple angle irons, and a drill. Or just slap a tourqe arm of any design on it, and drill one hole to attach it solid.

It should ride pretty nice, it's one of the original downhill mountain bikes. Upgrade the fork, upgrade the shock, and it may ride as sweet as my specialized.

make any progress on that bad boy? I would like to see the 6x10 in action, you need to shoot some video!

dogman said:

It should be easy as pie to convert em to a clamping type dropout with a few bolts, a couple angle irons, and a drill. Or just slap a tourqe arm of any design on it, and drill one hole to attach it solid.

Click to expand...

dogman, have you seen the design of these? http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=16546

Haven't had the time or energy to even go riding. Big weekend of hot air ballooning at a local rally. 4 days of great fun lugging 500 pounds of fabric around. This time it was two giant bees. Double the work, so actually carrying around 1000 pounds. If you can't fly your own balloon, at least crew the best one at the rally.

That dropout looks good, but still fails in my mind, since it doesn't actually press on the flats of the axle like a pinch dropout would. But at 48v, with heavy steel dropouts, I won't need a tourqe arm anyway.

What we really need, and I'll keep saying this over and over, is for the motor manufacturers to wake up and build em like a heinzmann. What? China afraid to rip a patent? Puleeese. They do that, and the torque arm is built into the motor, the axle can go back to normal size nuts and washers that fit dropouts, and the wire size can be anything you want through a huge hole, and doesn't pass through the axle center.

The new mongoose is on hold awhile. Can't seem to scare up a seatpost so easy for it. Have to spend money, Ugggh. Rode it pedaling a bit with a misfit seatpost, and boy it's heavy! Made for the ski lift, as the name implies. Perfect for a motor though! I'll want to upgrade the shock too, another $100-150 before it rides better than what I have the 6x10 on now. The rocker shock geometry is great though, I can see why you still see it on some high end bikes.

What type of seatpost does it need?

Really long 30 mm. Kinda rare. Right now I have a 27mm on it with some shims, but its not quite right. If I hang a 15 pound battery off it, it can't be funky.

Long....I dont' have much in the way of long, maybe two of them that are more than 10". Not sure about any of their diameters, have to see what they are marked as.

Just a wee problem on this mornings blast through the desert.


Knew I shoulda got around to bracing that rear seatpost rack.

I really need to get a seatpost for that blackcomb now.

I had a solid stainless steel seatpost made by local steel company that I use. It's been great. Cost me $45 plus tax.

HA no added weight there! LOL!