The Tongxin Motor thread

Reid Welch

1 MW
Joined
Nov 18, 2006
Messages
2,031
Location
Miami, Florida

Aim: To explore all the ups, downs, ins and outs
of the amazingly compact and torquey little Tongxin geared hubmotor




First, a quote (read between the lines?):

I have also purchased a Tongxin motor, I found it be be great...at first...but with my weight the motor suffered and started to make a quite a lot of noise which was eventually attributed to a manufacturing fault...In fact they have a lot of manufacturing faults and very little in the way of warranty support.

I would not recommend this motor to those of you thinking of carrying large loads. More information on this motor can be found at http://www.users.bigpond.com/solarbbq/P2motor.htm
And that comes from an AU Crystalite-seller's site
http://tinyurl.com/2wddgs


This bigpond motors don't appear to be the same as the sleek little Tongxins I see featured on the fronts of new bikes.

Q: Are the gears of the newest Tongxins -toothed-, or instead smooth/friction drive?
 
Yes, I'd like to know more about these motors also.
aiicsu seems to have some first hand experience.

I'm very interested in the sensorless controller. I saw a picture of the insides of the motor somewhere, but I can't find it now.
 
Here's something from a google search:

Specifications of Tongxin Brushless High-speed Moto

Work Voltage 36V Moto 24V Moto
Hub Moto Diameter mm ≤ 120
Input Direct Current Voltage 36 V 24 V
Output Power 180-250W
Rated Output Current 5.5A 8.2 A
the Max Efficiency ≥ 78 %
Moto Speed (r/min) 160 - 300
Weight (kg) ≤ 2.3

Hangzhou ZheDa TongXin
No.149,Yugu Road
Hangzhou, Zhejiang
China 310013
Tel : 86-571-8590-2659
Fax : 86-571-8894-8418
Homepage : http://shop33213749.taobao.com/
Contact :
Ms. Xiaoyuan Gao
Sales Assistant, Sales Department


http://www.ecplaza.net/ecmarket/list.asp?cmd=search&keywords=hub+motor
 

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I have been using one of the sensor equipt versions on and off for 1or 2 years now, I would not describe them as fragile as they will run at peak power output continuosly with negligble heat buildup, 1/2 an hour of this treatment makes them about the same temperature as luke warm water.
I have used mine on a single speed folder at a MTB park to climb (with my assistance) hills that are on the limit for regular 27 speed MTB's.
The current version from my understanding is identical except for the sensorless part.
Got to go(at work) :D
 
NickF23 said:
i heard the aussie guy fell out with tonxin, i think it was due to supply rather technical problems. Why do you think the torq has a tongxin motor?
Only because photos show a very small hub motor. Likewise, our member Andrey's IZIP also appears to have the current style of Tongxin. Likewise, the new Schwinns.

Beegee's testimony adds further interest.

I can see this motor on my own bike, on its springer front fork, to turn on when I want greater speed or greater power (say, if I got a Tongxin meant for a 20" wheel, but my wheel is 26", on 24V it would be wanting to take me past 20mph. If it were working in tandem with the Currie cruiser's stock drive, why, I can have efficency at both high speeds and low speeds.

If it were not for the expense, why not have Tongxins on both front and rear wheels? Use one or both, as demands require?

It surely is a pretty thing, and higher tech than brute lump hub motors.
 
Reid,

I don't think tongxin has an exclusive dealer. I once spoke to someone who ordered direct from them. If I recall they were very cheap. He also had a problem with one of the motors, though I'm not sure if it was a fault or a general design problem. I've heard they're also very quiet for a gear motor and that you can also select your own gearing and thus top end speed.

Tony castles, here in the UK knows a lot about these motors and is very friendly. I think he was also selling them at one time.

see here http://www.egopt.co.uk/index_m.asp
 
Hi all :D

Reid Welch said:
]
NickF23 said:
i heard the aussie guy fell out with tonxin, i think it was due to supply rather technical problems. Why do you think the torq has a tongxin motor?

Only because photos show a very small hub motor.

Although the Torq motor is compact, its true, I don't think its a Tongxin motor because the Torq motor is slightly larger, it seems to have less internal geared reduction (scroll down for Torq internals) of about 7:1 compared to ~12:1 of the Tongxin & different torque characteristics (I haven't seen the Tongxin's internals, but would be interested to) and, not the most objective criterium I know, but the two motors sound audibly different - I think the Tongxin is very quiet other than a very quiet freewheel "click" absent on the Torq, which though also quiet does have a distinct, characteristic sound.
 
think I pretty much know this motor inside out, though not the sensorless version. I dont have on my website any detailed info on it anymore, I dont sell anymore.
Is a very long story my dealings with tongxin company, to cut a long story short honesty is not a high priority on their behalf (making is money is very high priority) shall we say, and structure of the motor has not been modified to address some problems.
problems
1. two sides axles, high load may cause bending of the internal shaft which holds magnet rotor and is also drive shaft ( outer axles that join to bike frame not one continuous axle, quite low load capability), if that shaft bends even by less than a mm motor wont work properly
2. some magnets known to come unstuck
3. big problem: the larger outer ring has been known to break, design flaw in my view. I visited the company a couple of years ago and pointed out the potential for this to be a problem which turned out indeed to be a big problem. With the motors I sold I think probably a bit under 10% had large ring failure.
4.instart controllers just dont work, they changed design of controller and seem to have lost the plans for the original. Is a very basic thing to have a controller that works with the motor, they just couldn't supply of their own brand that would work. I landed up using another brand controller, company never replaced non working controllers with working ones, just sent same ones again. I lost a large amount of money due to this company, and went through alot of stress in having to replace controllers, and send out new bits/pieces to customers.
5. motor is pressed together, not designed to be repaired, very hard to completely dismantle, extremely difficult to reassemble whole motor if taken apart down to the magnet rotor level. Difficult to put the rollers back together ( gear system no cogged teeth used )
6. basically motor runs very close to design limits, not much safety margin built in, overvolting will burn it out, overamping likely will also burn out windings.

This company is a university based company. A private owned company will continually modify designs to address any problems. Tongxin company has not been able to make design changes to motor, reason unknown. Their attempts to address problems have been to do via the controller, but structural problems just aren't solved by using on pedal first controllers or sensorless controllers. What I think has potential to be a very good motor has turned into a big problem for alot of people.

IF you deal with the company be aware that getting sales is number one priority, how much problem they cause for people along the way is not their concern, I would avoid them like the plague.
They also were involved with a lithium bike, which made the chinese tv news when someone was injured when the battery caught fire, my workman in china saw it on the news. Dont buy lithiums off them!!
Any larger companies thinking of using tongxin in larger scale productions of ebikes is pretty much going to loose out bigtime.
I might put up a page on website showing the problems in detail, I'm amazed this company has stayed in business for so long.
On the positive side!!!! hall sensors have low failure rate
One more negative: if I could have taken the company to court to get back a few thousand dollars I lost due to them I probably would have.
 
Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh said:
On the positive side, the motor is soo qute!

Perhaps this is the hubmotor that Draper once burned out & logically concluded that all hubmotors must be the same.

Less worthy than even a girl scout hubmotor, this is a cub scout hubmotor for babies!
There, I beat him to it.... :D
 
Thanks for all the information solarbbq2003, though sorry to hear of the troubles you went through :( .

To avoid any confusion, although the eZee Torq & Tongxin motors are similar in size, I think I can categorically say they are not the same!

You can see from the Torq motor's internals (link in my last post) that the geared brushless design looks very similar to the puma motor, though its smaller and slightly lighter (~3.5kg/7.77lbs when spoked into a 28" rim) with less torque (~570W peak @ 36V 15A limit) and maybe slightly higher geared reduction of ~7:1, compared to 6:1 quoted for the puma. Runs up to about 260-280 rpm, so could work quite well in a 20-24" wheel for low speed torque, 26" for about 20mph top speed. Not sure it can be run at higher voltage too easily though :roll:

Its also rather low-profile and yes, its also soo qute :lol: and a good quality motor too - its no girl scout motor :wink: , though bigger motors seem better for higher speeds :D.
 
the ezee motor very different to tongxin internally, ezee motor is earlier version of the motor I sell as P2a on my site, probably quite alot of companies making that motor in china or something very similar.
Haven't seen the q motor website before.....nice work!!!
 
Thanks for the confirmation on the eZee Torq motor solarbbq2003, was beginning to doubt myself!

Interesting what you say on the relation with the P2a motor on your site... but I've gone OT far enough already so I'll stop...! :roll:

Yes, nice work indeed on the Q (wish it was my work, but alas no!) & there is also now a Torq radical, or T-bike in case you've not seen it :D .
 
recently got a sensorless tongxin motor for someone, first sensorless controller lasted a few hundred meters, got another one, didn't work at all,
going to get another controller, maybe third time lucky
 
Well I bought a tongxin from ebikes.ca, they are clearing them out. After lacing up my new double walled rim and bench testing the tongxin - it worked ok,I was ready to install the motor on the bike today. I had the tire on, all of the cable ties on, the andersons hooked up and I tested it again while holding the bike in the air. It worked. So I finished up everything and tried it one last time. It acted like the throttle was stuck on. So I checked the throttle, it seemed ok. I unhooked the throttle. The same thing happened, It was running full blast. I then hooked the throttle back up plugged the motor in and tried again. Poof, out came the black smoke from the controller. Man what a bummer. I have sent the guys at ebikes.ca an e-mail to see what they have to say. What a bummer! :( I am really getting into the lightweight bike idea.

But from what I just read here, the controllers are scary :(
 
Well Velectris now have sensorless controllers, but the motor brake on them is not regen yet tho.
 
Sorry to hear about the controller John. I was seriously thinking of buying one of Justin's last few Tongxins myself to put on my wife's bike, but you've made my mind up for me. I've heard too many tales of problems with the controllers recently. Perhaps a different controller would be more reliable. The motors themselves seem to be very good as long as you don't demand too much torque from them, in which case I've heard the planetary rollers can slip a little.
 
Well, If I get this resolved, I will post further details, it seems like such a great little motor in theory! Lightweight, geared, sensor less, all good things. - but reliability is a big issue for me. I have two controllers for all of the other e-bikes I own. I double fuse some of them, one fuse on the battery and one on the controller. Just to be extra careful. It would suck to be 40 miles away from home and have to pedal an overweight bike home.
 
Depending on how much voltage you want to run, you might be able to use a RC sensorless controller with a servo tester for the throttle.
 
I have e-mailed tongxin to see what they would say out of curiosity. I don't expect a response, but we'll see!
 
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