Timma2500
1 kW
Any idea how much these modded controllers will cost John? What would their amp limit be?johnrobholmes said:
Paul
14kw continuous 94% efficient motor.......
- Thread starter recumpence
- Start date
Paul
johnrobholmes
10 MW
I haven't looked into them fully, but compared to something like a Castle controller they will be quite affordable.
An internal temp sensor would be a good idea, but since the winds are right on the can you can get a good idea of the winding temperature from the can temp too. Maybe a spot to mount a 10k thermistor would be a good idea, external or internal.
An internal temp sensor would be a good idea, but since the winds are right on the can you can get a good idea of the winding temperature from the can temp too. Maybe a spot to mount a 10k thermistor would be a good idea, external or internal.
GGoodrum
1 MW
johnrobholmes said:
Lyen has a 4115-based model that is good for up to 150V, right out of the box, that could be beefed up fairly easy to run up to 120A, or so. I'm thinking a 30s or 32s pack would be just the ticket. Even at 4.2V per cell, fresh off the charger, 32s would be about 135V. To get to 14kW you'd only need about 110A. Since heat losses go up as a square function of the current, this motor will run a ton cooler at 100-110A than it will at 300A+.
A kV of around 50 sounds perfect with a 32s pack, as it would get the motor rpm up between 5500-6000 rpm, which I'm guessing would be pretty close to its sweet spot, efficiency-wise, and with a 5:1 single stage reduction, that would certainly get you freeway speeds, for top-end, with a 26" wheel.
A smaller motorcycle might be a better candidate. 
The nice thing about going higher voltage is that you don't need as much capacity to get the same Wh number. For instance, a 32s2p configuration is about 1.2kWh. To get that with a 12s setup, it would need to be 12s6p. Assuming the cells are all paralleled first, if you then have one cell go bad, it will kill 6 of your 5Ah packs, vs just two with the higher voltage setup.
With just eight of these 8s-5800 25C packs, you could make a 32s2p 125V/11.6Ah setup with about 1.4kWh of capacity.
-- Gary
Ariane
10 kW
Hi,
100 Volt and 100 amps with an infineon controller i think that 10 K Watts will fit my needs for my ebike.
Good day!
Black Arrow
100 Volt and 100 amps with an infineon controller i think that 10 K Watts will fit my needs for my ebike.
Good day!
Black Arrow
liteCycles
10 W
GGoodrum said:johnrobholmes said:
Lyen has a 4115-based model that is good for up to 150V, right out of the box, that could be beefed up fairly easy to run up to 120A, or so. I'm thinking a 30s or 32s pack would be just the ticket. Even at 4.2V per cell, fresh off the charger, 32s would be about 135V. To get to 14kW you'd only need about 110A. Since heat losses go up as a square function of the current, this motor will run a ton cooler at 100-110A than it will at 300A+.
A kV of around 50 sounds perfect with a 32s pack, as it would get the motor rpm up between 5500-6000 rpm, which I'm guessing would be pretty close to its sweet spot, efficiency-wise, and with a 5:1 single stage reduction, that would certainly get you freeway speeds, for top-end, with a 26" wheel.
-- Gary
I like your thinking but I'm getting slightly different numbers. At this point it looks like 5 or 6 turns might be the practical limit when using a XieChang 116 controller (which apparently can only hold sync up to 6600rpm). But my gut tells me it's not wise to spec a motor based on what is available today.
And if we follow naming convention this motor should be called a 3230.
P = I²R and the resistance goes up with the number of turns - so there is no free lunch. But it appears the Astros do have a sweet spot.
liveforphysics
100 TW
liteCycles said:
Why do people keep spreading this wrong info around?
liteCycles
10 W
liveforphysics said:
That's why I busted out the weasle word apparently. Kindly point me to the right thread zen master.
liveforphysics
100 TW
liteCycles said:liveforphysics said:
That's why I busted out the weasle word apparently. Kindly point me to the right thread zen master.
I run motors with 14magnets at 10,000rpm. Thud made a you-tube video with a laser tach on the shaft showing 8,800rpm on a 14magnet motor, which was the voltage*KV limit of that setup, not limited by controller speed.
8 magnets in a Astro right? So you're looking at a minimum of ~15,000rpm confirmed all ready.
liteCycles
10 W
liveforphysics said:
That is very cool. I was remembering this post - http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=18214&p=267175&hilit=6600#p267175
I must read about 2000 postings for every one I submit. But 17 days ago is like ancient history. Sometimes I think that I'd be better off getting a couple really good books on motor design and controller theory.
liveforphysics
100 TW
That RPM limit does seem to apply for the Infinions running the simulated sensorless modules. For hall sensor setups, it's not an issue.
liteCycles
10 W
liveforphysics said:That RPM limit does seem to apply for the Infinions running the simulated sensorless modules. For hall sensor setups, it's not an issue.
O.K. I'm highjacking this thread a little but I just gotta know. How did you figure out that the controller is running in some sort of simulated sensorless mode by reading that thread? :? Or did Thuds results just supercede the results which Lyen found?
Thud
1 MW
Guy's
I beleive Lyen's information is based on a Hub motor free spinning it & measuring wheel speed.(72v?) I have never seen the posting showing the set up.
The Turnigys are only 14 poles(what is a typical hub motor?) the astros should spin higher.
But for certain I haven't hit the theoretical max RPMs of a 116 chip driven infineon yet. My road racer build will.
I beleive Lyen's information is based on a Hub motor free spinning it & measuring wheel speed.(72v?) I have never seen the posting showing the set up.
The Turnigys are only 14 poles(what is a typical hub motor?) the astros should spin higher.
But for certain I haven't hit the theoretical max RPMs of a 116 chip driven infineon yet. My road racer build will.
recumpence
1 GW
Don't think you are hyjacking the thread. I like discussions about this stuff. Personally, I am very low on the knowledge scale when it comes to motor theory. That is why I have been forced into merely warming over an existing design to make "My Own Motor". I truely appreciate you guys and your knowledge.
I have heard the 6,500 to 6,600 RPM limit mentioned by a couple forum members. So, that is what I went by. But, experience shows different! That is awesome! Methy and I were discussing this and we both agreed that as long as the RPM can reach 8K minimum (10K would be perfect), this could be the Holy Grail of performance motor/controller setups! It looks like that may be the case.
As for motor designation, I want to stay away from Astro's numbering system. For one thing, I will only have one motor diameter. The stack height can change, but not the lam diameter. So, the "32" is not needed. Hmm, how about "RPM" (Recumpence Performance Motor)? This motor would be a RPM3 (3 inch stack)? At 6 turns, that would be an RPM 3-6?
Anyway, I am not too worried about specific designation, per-se. I just want a high end motor/controller that does not weigh 20+ pounds.
Matt
Personally, I am very low on the knowledge scale when it comes to motor theory. That is why I have been forced into merely warming over an existing design to make "My Own Motor". I truely appreciate you guys and your knowledge.I have heard the 6,500 to 6,600 RPM limit mentioned by a couple forum members. So, that is what I went by. But, experience shows different! That is awesome! Methy and I were discussing this and we both agreed that as long as the RPM can reach 8K minimum (10K would be perfect), this could be the Holy Grail of performance motor/controller setups! It looks like that may be the case.
As for motor designation, I want to stay away from Astro's numbering system. For one thing, I will only have one motor diameter. The stack height can change, but not the lam diameter. So, the "32" is not needed. Hmm, how about "RPM" (Recumpence Performance Motor)? This motor would be a RPM3 (3 inch stack)? At 6 turns, that would be an RPM 3-6?
Anyway, I am not too worried about specific designation, per-se. I just want a high end motor/controller that does not weigh 20+ pounds.
Matt
liveforphysics
100 TW
You gotta give a sensored controller a shot yourself Matt. Those 2t motors you've got on your trike would be the perfect motors to find the RPM limits of the infinion. When you feel the buttery smooth low RPM operation with mega low-rpm smooth torque, you will forget you ever saw a sensorless controller.
etard
100 kW
Stunning Matt!!! I am thinking it is time you made a trade with one of our web design members and get a proper website going, possibly even a business name too. These motors are gonna kill it, I suspect after they make thier debut on a dual motor Supermotard at the TTXGP. 8)
OK gentlemen, we have motors: CHECK, Batteries: CHECK, Controller: :?
OK gentlemen, we have motors: CHECK, Batteries: CHECK, Controller: :?
mr.electric
10 kW
recumpence
1 GW
Actually, I have been running my 3220s at 15,000+ RPM for a month now. Bob tested them up to 29,000 RPM.CNCAddict said:
I think he is using different adhesive now.
Matt
mdd0127
100 kW
- Joined
- Sep 30, 2008
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- 1,084
recumpence said:Actually, I have been running my 3220s at 15,000+ RPM for a month now. Bob tested them up to 29,000 RPM.CNCAddict said:
I think he is using different adhesive now.
Matt
I'm really enjoying imagining the doppler effected sound of something going by turning 29,000 RPM with one of your new motors in it!!!
Was that a trike? No, it I think it might have been a missile! Do missiles have turbos?
My brother and I are thinking of converting a 4x4 buggy to E-power. Something like a polaris ranger rzr S
It would be great if we could put one of these motors at each axle... peak 25kw X 2 in this sort of application liquid cooling might be nice.
in this sort of application liquid cooling might be nice.....? :?etard said:
recumpence
1 GW
etard said:
That is why we are fitting sensors.
I am really excited to run one of these, myself!
Matt
recumpence
1 GW
We can run a thread program for the fins. Of course, we can also just turn the center portion of the can down with no fins, then run a sleeve around that. RC boats use a sleeve just like that.Miles said:
Thing is, I highly doubt heat will be an issue at all. But, we may be able to get 30kw out of this crazy motor IF it were liquid cooled. You never know.
Actually, back 10 years ago, I was liquid cooling car audio amplifiers. So, I am very familiar with small scale water pumps, small radiators, and related equipment as well as air bubble purging from these systems. Of course, now we have PC liquid cooling systems. It would not be difficult to hybrid one of those to cool a motor.
Again, I doubt heat will be a problem.
Matt
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