1983 Puma EV - I got questions..

Ypedal

Ypedal

100 TW
Joined
Dec 27, 2006
Messages
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Location
Moncton NB, Canada
Hey Guys !

I got a phone call a while ago from a dude here in town who is in the process of converting a 1983 Puma car, made in Brazil aparently and has a VW chassis, 4 speed manual. Stock form weighed aprox 1500 lbs. With 14" tires.

The motor is comming from a Fork Lift ! big brushed monster of about 200 lbs.

Pic of the Fork Lift
 

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Now, the big question is Battery/Controller related.

I"m used to e-bikes and can size them up quickly, Voltage and Amps for X speed but this is much larger in scale and not my specialty... :|

Down the road i'd love to lithium this sucker and likely will, but for the moment i think it's best to go old fashion Lead for a proof of concept then invest in a nice battery pack and BMS.

The Fork Lift used 48v, and not much of a controller ( mainly relays from the looks of it as the panel was removed and saved for parts. )

Anyone in the know able to recommend either a Curtis or a Zilla ? or maybe a Kelly ?

how many amp hours are needed and max amps on this type of project to make it keep up with city traffic ?.. don't want a slug here .. it has to at least keep up with the flow, more is always better but that comes later.

Thoughts anyone ?
 
Obviously i cant help you YPedal man but fellas on this forum i am on
likely can http://www.aeva.asn.au/forums/default.asp They are a cluey bunch into
converting cars.

That side on pic of the body has a Mustang look too it i thought?

mustang_profile_600.jpg


Best of luck anywayz, being brushed i wouldnt think its going to be a big task to find a controller...

KiM
 
Ypedal said:
Now, the big question is Battery/Controller related.

I"m used to e-bikes and can size them up quickly, Voltage and Amps for X speed but this is much larger in scale and not my specialty... :|

Down the road i'd love to lithium this sucker and likely will, but for the moment i think it's best to go old fashion Lead for a proof of concept then invest in a nice battery pack and BMS.

The Fork Lift used 48v, and not much of a controller ( mainly relays from the looks of it as the panel was removed and saved for parts. )

Anyone in the know able to recommend either a Curtis or a Zilla ? or maybe a Kelly ?

how many amp hours are needed and max amps on this type of project to make it keep up with city traffic ?.. don't want a slug here .. it has to at least keep up with the flow, more is always better but that comes later.

Thoughts anyone ?
Click to expand...


A car like my Honda Insight hybrid dyno'd a peak of 49whp, and the car is about ~2,000lbs with me in it. It gets around decently in traffic, but I often can't maintain the normal traffic flow speed on steep hills.

This car loaded with batteries will be at least as heavy as my Insight. I would not go less than 30kw if he intends to safely keep up with normal traffic, and he is OK with struggling up hills. If he is looking for something with some OK giddy-up, 100-150hp in a 2,000lbs car actually feels pretty damn good. You're not going to win races against anything serious, but you will be quicker than 90% of the cars on the road, which is more fun than being a slug.

As far as a high-side limit on power, if the suspension and chassis is all setup perfectly, and it's running a real tire, about 800-1,200hp/ton seems to be right around the limit of what a very well setup RWD streetcar chassis can handle on the road before things go full-circle back to being slower as additional power is added. Purpose built drag chassis can of course handle everything you can hit them with, but if that is "swing beam" suspension I'm looking at, I wouldn't want to drive that thing with more than 400-500hp in it.
 
Running something like 120v 500amp peak will make a reasonable runabout. At freeway speeds (100kph) expect about 150-200 amps for an average small car. Zilla would likely kill that motor unless you de-tune it, but it would give headroom. Curtis or Kelly make usable bits, I'd look for a second hand curtis 1231C as it will pretty much max out that motor unless further upgrades are planned.
 
Hi,

Worth reading this thread (BTW their forums are excellent):
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/using-forklift-motor-and-choosing-good-7598.html
Using a forklift motor, and choosing a good one
I thought I'd chime in and discuss the basics on choosing a forklift motor. In general, I advise people to look for a motor that weighs between 100 to 150 lbs. The heavier the car, the heavier the motor needs to be to push it around. The way I see it is, you don't want Peewee hermin trying to pull you around but you probably don't want to feed Hulk Hogan either, lol.…

Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
http://www.hitorqueelectric.com
Click to expand...

And here:
http://forkenswift.com/
ForkenSwift: an inexpensive, DIY, medium-speed electric car

he ForkenSwift is a 1992 Geo Metro converted from gasoline to electric power with used forklift parts (electric motor, etc.), used golf cart batteries (and a golf cart motor controller) and a pair of near-dead "host" cars. It was built by two friends, designed from the outset as a low cost, medium-speed runabout for use in a small, quiet city (Brockville, Ontario, Canada).

This site documents the conversion in detail.

Latest update: the secrets of keeping the net cost under $1000
Click to expand...

Might be some good info here:
http://www.poormansev.com/index.html
Check out this Youtube Video of the Chevelle in Action
(The tire squeal is when the Chevelle was shifted from 48 Volts to 84 Volts)
[youtube]kHOxtlCWsV0[/youtube]

The Electric Drag Racing Chevelle
24 Volt Street Conversion Nedra World Record Holder
48 Volt Modified Conversion Nedra World Record Holder
Click to expand...

http://www.poormansev.com/id26.html
Poorman's EV Costs

  • 64 Chevelle Body and Transmission $500

    400 Pound Series Forklift Motor $350

    18 X 20 1/2 Steel Adaptor Plate $23

    Spline Coupler for Motor to Tranny $30

    Adaptor Machine Shop Fee $90, $60
…
Click to expand...
 
All great information !! THANKS GUYS !!!..

So from what i'm seeing here, 48v won't do .. 72v is better ( just like an ebike lol )

At 48v 500 amps = 24,000 watts meh..
At 72v 500 amps = 36,000 watts better..

Checking out evcomponents for Skyenergy 180 ah cells, 24 of these at 200$ = 5000$

There is a local SLA battery company near Moncton, they produce these :
but 6 of these would be .. HEAVY...

the research continues ! lol.. :mrgreen:

Main goal at first is to get it running, is it worth going with very cheap army surplus wet lead ? or is this a waste of time and money ? ( even if they could be had for like 100$ total.. )
 
Hi,

Ypedal said:
Main goal at first is to get it running, is it worth going with very cheap army surplus wet lead ? or is this a waste of time and money ? ( even if they could be had for like 100$ total.. )
Click to expand...

Until recently most DIY EV's used cheap lead so this can work ok.


Personally if you want a cheap first step I think cheap NiMH :) is a better idea.
 
I don't think 72v is going to be cutting it either...

So much current is needed at those low voltages, all the wires and things must be scaled up to silly sizes.

180Ah cells at 72v are only going to do 20kw for 38mins, and that's assuming zero voltage drop, which in reality is going to be quite a lot even at only 1.54C on thundersky cells.


What you will soon find out is the reason which all the planned production EV's chose to go with pack voltages >300v. It keeps the current reasonable, and it enables a more broad speed range for the motor.
 
Ypedal said:
...The Fork Lift used 48v...
Click to expand...
...although the nameplate says 36V? Surrette have a world class reputation... in the marine world at least. But ya do pay for their premium product quality. I don't know the diff but that forklift motor might be series wound or shunt wound... whether this makes a diff in controller selection I don't know... I believe many of the ev car folks driving flooded lead batts build their packs w/6V golf cart batts because they are cheapest per Wh from high volume production. I'm sure you would get fast quality answers to any questions on this project via the EVDL or the DIY site. One of the posts here mentions Jim Husted and he is FABULOUS with motors. `Spect he could tell you all about that forklift motor... One fun thing to investigate might be series/parallel switching of the pack...
Lock
 
It's all about plate thickness, for max discharge. Golfcart floodies have much thicker plates.

Trojan, Hawker, Crown... very good. Not very cheap.
 
I'd also recommend reading Jim Husted's thread on DIY electric cars.

How many terminals does the motor have Ypedal? It probably has four, but if there are only two it's likely to be a series motor wired for unidirectional use, so you would need to check that the direction of rotation matches your needs, or else rewire it internally.

From looking at other conversions, you could probably get around 50 mph max from this motor running at 72V. To run it at a higher voltage and avoid commutation problems it would be good if you could advance the brushes a little. That means rotating the brushes in the opposite direction to the intended direction of rotation. It's hard to see from the photos, but on some motors it's possible to rotate the complete brush plate. Around 10 degrees seems to be the recommended advance for 120-144V.

If it was me and I had the cash to spare I would go for the 1k low-voltage Zilla, just to try it out and give some headroom for the future.

Oh, and merry Christmas everyone! :)
 
Hey Guys !!

More work happening on this beast.. 8)

Time to do a quick test of the motor/drivetrain off the ground, now i apologize in advance for the noobish question here but i'm used to brushed motors only having 2 lugs lol..

wtf do i do with this ! :shock:

1,7 and 2,8 are bridged via that copper band thing.. ???

The plan is to hook up 12v to this motor, no controller, but i want to make sure i get this right..
 

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