55mph Club

[TylerDurden]

+1

Toshi for Veep.

 

[dogman dan]

Any of you old enough to actually have lived with the 55 law for more than a year or two?

 

[TylerDurden]

Any of you old enough to actually have lived with the 55 law for more than a year or two?

Oh Yeah, I drove the flagship of the Ford economy line: The Pyrotechnic Pinto Bomb, in blazing blue.

 

[dogman dan]

That is good to know, so you know what it was like for 55 to be the law. In NM it did not work since the cops wouldn't enforce it except selectively, like I don't like you drive a VW, or I only bust brown people. Maybe a decade or so of scarce fuel will make things different, but right now we need to get people to conserve voluntarily. It's too soon to ram it down americas throat. Maybe it's different in the city, but here in the wide open spaces people start getting a rope if you tell them to slow down. I think people that want to conserve need to find the sweet spot for each car. I'm sure my subaru would get better mileage at 55 vs 60, but I cant tell the difference by the odometer at fillup. Since 65 is the limit in town, I feel a lot safer not driving too much slower than that, given the others are at least 5-10 mph over. So for me, in that car, I like 60 in town. On long trips, my old back injury kicks in pretty good at about 5 hours, so when I go to Albuquerque, I need to keep the drive down to about 4 hours, so I'll drive at least the speed limit, and five over in the long straight stretches in the boonies. One time last winter, my back was killing me with 160 miles to go to get home, and I was quite amazed to find the subaru did 100 mph pretty comfortably. I really needed to get home that day.

I had a pinto too, but it got shitty mileage with one exhaust valve missing a chunk. Sometimes it got up to 55 mph. Dumped it and got a 73 WV van that seemed to haull ass after the pinto.

 

[esldude]

Garrett Hardin was an unusual thinker on environmental problems.

Someone mentioned tragedy of the commons. Might be worthwhile to read Mr. Hardin on this idea.
http://www.econlib.org/Library/Enc/TragedyoftheCommons.html

And more on the idea here. Might pay particular attention to the section "Conscience is self-eliminating"
and "The Pathogenic effects of Conscience".

http://www.garretthardinsociety.org/articles/art_tragedy_of_the_commons.html

 

[safe]

I know that this is supposed to be about driving your car slower, but I just managed to reach 55 mph as a top speed on my bike. (downhill)

My old best was 52 mph.

 

[TylerDurden]

I know that this is supposed to be about driving your car slower, but I just managed to reach 55 mph as a top speed on my bike. (downhill).

Excellent... you can enter the EDDRVN.

I know, safe don't have a video camera... he can email all his friends: if the first doesn't have one, the other should. :lol:

 

[disadvantage]

steveCA,

TY for the http://www.greensteamengine.com/ link. It is very interesting.

I'd like to build my own CHP (cooling-heating-power) unit for home.

 

[steveCA]

I made a decision to move ahead on this project, strictly as a prototype. I purchased the plans and the rudimentary kit for a two cylinder flexrod steam engine. Most of the engine parts I can purchase off the shelf at Home Depot, or make in my shop.

I've obtained plans for making my own solar heat panels from aluminum sheets and 3/8" copper tubing. I'm working on how to buy or build a decent heat exchanger to move the heat from the circulating water in the solar heat panels into the evaporator side of the R-134A refrigerant loop (within the heat exchanger).

I'm not so sure that I could not just use the refrigerant for the entire loop. I think that heat losses might be less controllable and a problem there, driving up the costs of insulating the pipes to and from the heat panels on the roof. But, I wont need a heat exchanger. Insulation will still be crucial though, if I use water or refrigerant for the heat panel loop.

SteveCA

 

[paultrafalgar]

The performance of evacuated tube solar heaters is so superior to anything you can make at home that you might like to consider something like this:
http://www.navitron.org.uk/product_detail.php?proID=116&catID=77
I know that, being in the UK, the link is no use to you, but I understand that these are Chinese made tubes and so should be available in the US.

 

[steveCA]

That is true, the evacuated tubes are superior performers, especially in northern lattitudes. However, I live at about the 25 degree line, in SoCal. So, that means I should be able to avoid the heavy expense of a $700 panel, and go with a flat panel heat collector. Using a jig design I stole from someone else, I can turn these out for less than $100 each.

The idea here is to capture a lot of BTUs in circulating water heated to a low temperature, too low to convert directly into mechanical energy. Using a heat exchanger, I can move that ~165 degree heat load to a fluid with a much lower boiling point to convert those BTUs to vapor pressure and on into useful mechanical motion, via the low pressure flexrod engine. The only way I can vary the horsepower output of the engine, is by gathering more BTUs from more panels, which can convert more R-134a to vapor, which I can try to use at higher pressure, or, I can increase the number of pistons in the engine to utilize a greter volume of gas under the same pressure.

I'm trying arrive at a cheaper solution. It tickles my core penny-pinching nature! I could go out and spend $700 each on photovoltaic panels, which I've done already. Most of the folks I know can't just go out and spend that kind of money, or they are not willing or able to assume the debt load.

Steve

View attachment Low Rider_JPG.jpg

 

[paultrafalgar]

This is an excellent project! Have you done any maths on how much energy you can expect to extract? I'd be very interested to hear how it works out.

 

[steveCA]

Commercially available solar thermal panels advertise that they can deliver 37,000 BTUs per day from a panel measuring 38 sq ft. Convert to watts 1 BTU = .293 watts = 3,262 watts per day for the one panel. I'd expect some hefty losses from transport and mechanical conversion... a reasonable estimate might be 1/3 of the power lost. That leaves me with about two KW per panel. Times maybe five panels = 10KW over one day. If you divide that by 5 hours (effective maximum period of solar day), that means 2 KW per hour. 1 hp = 746 watts, so my flexrod engine should put out about 2.5 hp, up to maybe 3 hp. It might be more than that, but this should be big enough as a prototype. If I decide to purchase commercial flat panels, they seem to range from $450 to $700 US each. If my motor doesn't spin fast enough for me, I can salvage some of my costs by hooking up the panels to my home hot water heater!

Motor costs = $200 plus my machining and asembly time
Panels = $3000
Belt driven generator = $375
Heat exchanger = TBD
Misc = $100

Total project estimate= $3675 + heat exchanger

Steve

 

[disadvantage]

I'm very interested in your project, Steve, but maybe we ought to start a new thread.

I hear the Queen of Mean gets nasty if we disrupt her thread.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leona_Helmsley

 

[dogman dan]

Just for grins I tried very hard last week to drive the subaru at 55 or less all week. The result, one more mpg than when driving 60, though I must admit, I most likely do drive some at 65. So despite what I said earlier about my subaru getting its best mileage at 60, it is better, 27mpg, at 55. Now If I could just keep doing this and not get creamed by a semi, or double cab F350. They'd be like "what was that bump?" So I'll stick to 60 to 65 for now, since driving the speed limit is only 20 mph slower than all the other traffic. People keep saying they are driving slower in other towns. Not here, Not even slowing down to 10 over the speed limit.

 

[TylerDurden]

I drove my old 1991 Audi 200 Turbo today...

117mi, 3.6gal = 32.6mpg @ 55mph

Compared to 26mpg @ 65mph.

20% improvement for 15% reduction in speed.

 

[dogman dan]

Clearly the old audi's overdrive sucks. That is how it used to be in 3 or 4 speed cars. The subaru would have to slow down a lot more to see 30mpg. Yesterday I drove to work to do shopping for work on the way. As usual all the other cars are zooming past me. When I saw an old VW van tailgating me all pissed off, I realized I was still driving 55. Eventually he had the space in the left lane to pass me. It was a downhill stretch of road, the van I had in the 80's had a top speed of 60 on flat ground. I still miss that van, but the subaru is a really good compromise between cargo space, comfort and mileage. The old van never did better than 20mpg. I really need to drive the speed limit of 65 if I don't want to get creamed by a guy fishing mcbreakfast out of his lap. Gas prices just dropped a few cents, here it never quite got to 4 bucks for discount station regular so they still haull ass here. If I drive 55 instead of 65 in my subaru it will save me exactly 15 dollars a month if I drove everyday. At the rate I use the car now, I save about 5 bucks a month by going 55. Even at 85 the subaru gets suprisingly good mileage, like 23 with the AC going full blast. So driving 85 would cost me 60 bucks more a month if I drove everyday.

One thing for sure, now that 4 days a week I ride the bike, 55 seems fast now, and 85 scary fast.

 

[TylerDurden]

Ja, that was the old 3-speed tranny. Still, 32mpg for a 5,000lb luxury car ain't bad. The recent Honda Passport / Pilot gets 22mpg on the highway @ 500lbs less.

 

[dogman dan]

You betcha that is good for a car of that type. None of my chevys or fords of similar year got anything like that. Yesterday I found the best sollution of all, the bus. i've been too weak in the arms to put an ebike on the rack of the bus all summer. If I leave the bike at home and ride it all the way, it takes an hour and forty five minuites to travel the same distance as I ride the ebike in one hour. Plus a two mile walk. But if I eliminate one transfer and the half hour wait that comes with it, I can ride the bus home from halfway, eliminating the 10% hill from hell on the way home. I do love riding the ebike, but that hill is roasting my motor daily untill it cools off. When winter comes, I can go to work a lot later, instead of before the bus starts for the day. i could actually get out the old road bike, and only ride about 10 miles a day instead of the 29 on the ebike. Ten miles of flat terrain on the ol motobecane is easy in cool weather. Regular bike and a buck a day fare is even cheaper than the ebike. I love cheap!

 

[swbluto]

Using my e-bike calculator, it appears using 100V with a 90 amp-limit 5302 on a 20 inch wheel should get you to about ~58 mph(Assuming a normal bike's frontal area) IF the motor's temperature is "normal temperature"(70-130 degrees fahrenheit). It's probably not going to be that cool once you get upto that speed as my calculator predicts heat wastage of ~1000-1500 watts on the way up, so I'm thinking you might barely make it to 55-56 mph or so. Wait... that was at sea level and freezing temperature. Anything warmer and higher should actually reduce the requirements quite favorably so.

Edit:

lol. I should have read the first post. :lol:

Anyways, onto the issue of energy efficiency and high speeds, I think the one of the few ways to allow high-speed travel with high efficiency per "given amount of people" is to use a reaaaaallly long narrow "bullet" train(or something similar. It's too bads our highways aren't constructed with this in mind which would make transitioning so much easier), as that should have aerodynamic energy requirements comparable to a double-trailer semi BUT it's transporting a league of people at the same time. According to this one show, that could allow speeds upto 200+ mph which would allow easy expansion in a given area(along the rail's length) which would allow easy inexpensive long-distance travel while allowing more inefficient systems to be used within short distances of the rail's length within small communities. With some kind of "car rental scheme", this could allow economic expansion without the hustle and bustle of really busy towns(Which are still going to exist, but there'd be more options, some of which would be more economical.)

 

[TylerDurden]

lol. I should have read the first post. :lol:

No worries...

A truck-train of EVs that could un-dock for local travel has recently been brought up. The concept has plenty of merit.

 

[swbluto]

lol. I should have read the first post. :lol:

No worries...

A truck-train of EVs that could un-dock for local travel has recently been brought up. The concept has plenty of merit.

I guess that could also exist to allow one to bring their own vehicles, but it's not "very efficient" to constantly transport heavy objects over long distances which our society will be approaching to as an asymptote(As far as what we'd "need to do" given our future energy picture) with an ever-increasing population(Our Energy-per-capita should go down over time for the short-term making us "Energy poorer" but that may not be true for the long-term due to multiple uncertainties, due to future: energy extraction efficiency, scale of energy extraction(We're extracting total annual energy less than .01% of the sun's annual energy output, ya know, so there's much room to improve.), and possible population "catastrophies" such as maybe nuclear war or super-intelligent machines diminishing the overall human population in the same analogical evolutionary way humans have been reducing the Chimpanzee population by intellectually 'superior' displacement.).

I think it might also be cool to create a vacuum in the region in which transportation takes place, that way energy losses due to high-speeds can be minimized. If somehow you could get the vehicle to exert little force against the ground(perhaps using electromagnetic super-conductors? The cars would have more permanent magnets... or, maybe not necessarily.), then rolling resistance can be minimized as well but that sounds much less of a concern than minimizing air resistance and sounds like it'd be expensive to implement. But, yeah, it's obvious the technology to economically enable that on a massive scale doesn't exist... yet.(Imagine flying and/or linked nanobots that create a surface membrane with effectively nanoscopic one-way valves, that exist locally over the entire membrane, for air within a given region of space. That'd create a nearly ideal vacuum, in theory.)

 

[Mathurin]

[...]I would rather spend $3.60 to not have every driver on the road giving me dirty looks, high beams, and general road rage.

^ QFT

In Quebec there's a modest fine and no demerit points for going less then 15km/h above the speed limit, and the police don't bother asides from school or construction zones. So, people go ~115 in 100km/h zones, ~65 in 50km/h zones, etc. Going slower or faster then this when there's traffic is just rude.

Kinda like cars blaring noise from speakers mounted on the outside, shows a lack of public-spiritedness. Going 80 km/h isn't practical in day to day life.

 

[TylerDurden]

Sense red's help, he sends lepers, ends her sleeps. Endless herpes! Sheepless nerd, nerds sleeps, eh? Red hens sleeps, send Seer's help!

If Math did that without computer assist, we should send him stuff to fix.

 

[swbluto]

Sense red's help, he sends lepers, ends her sleeps. Endless herpes! Sheepless nerd, nerds sleeps, eh? Red hens sleeps, send Seer's help!

If Math did that without computer assist, we should send him stuff to fix.

Indeed. But the prevalence of anagram software and websites doesn't make it easy to assume it.

Interestingly, I only noticed that itself was an anagram of "Endless sphere" after just using such a website.