60C ABF cells

[circuit]

Found this manufacturer that claims it's LiFePO4 cells hold up to 60C. They do have some cells with nice looking numbers, such as this one:
http://www.advancedbatteryfactory.com/showproduct.asp?ID=1201015

I've done some research and found a couple of 1-2 years old comments about these cells. At that time they were rated at 18C and were being sold on hobbycity.
Comment were very negative, so I would like to get some fresh information. Has anyone tried these cells lately?

 

[thomas]

New a123 cells ?

 

[dogman dan]

60 c sounds nice, but no doubt it costs ya. For RC helicopters and such it's great, but for an ebike 10c is plenty. Anything less than 10 ah pack size isn't going very far on a bike. So a 10c 10 ah battery could pull 100 amps. But 60c would be usefull for drag racing

 

[circuit]

My internet research shows that this manufacturer holds a lot lower prices. If so, I prefer ABF cells over A123s.
BTW, I am going for 300 amps discharge, 400A peak.. So here it is, 20C minimum..

I have sent an email to this manufacturer and should know the prices by tomorrow.

 

[circuit]

OK, so here it is. 72V 30Ah pack goes for 1400 USD. It is made of 22s3p 10Ah 38120 size cells. Looks like this:


Manufacturer claims that an internal resistance of one cell is 10 mOhm. Did not answer to question what it will be after 100 cycles. He said, that after 100 cycles the capacity will drop to 9Ah and after 1000 cycles it will be 7.5Ah.
A bit worse than A123, but the price is unbeatable.. I will order some samples.

 

[tostino]

Roughly $21.50/cell. That isn't a bad price, but it is a big drop in capacity for only 100 cycles.

 

[voicecoils]

OK, so here it is. 72V 30Ah pack goes for 1400 USD. It is made of 22s3p 10Ah 38120 size cells. Looks like this:


Manufacturer claims that an internal resistance of one cell is 10 mOhm. Did not answer to question what it will be after 100 cycles. He said, that after 100 cycles the capacity will drop to 9Ah and after 1000 cycles it will be 7.5Ah.
A bit worse than A123, but the price is unbeatable.. I will order some samples.

I would say there is a very small chance that those are not Headway 38120S cells. If so, those performance claims are unrealistic.

Also, a 72v lifepo4 pack often implies 24 cells in series (76.8v operating, 87.6v charged, 60v discharged). With many different battery chemistries, nominal voltages can get confusing.

 

[boostjuice]

OK, so here it is. 72V 30Ah pack goes for 1400 USD. It is made of 22s3p 10Ah 38120 size cells. Looks like this:


Manufacturer claims that an internal resistance of one cell is 10 mOhm. Did not answer to question what it will be after 100 cycles. He said, that after 100 cycles the capacity will drop to 9Ah and after 1000 cycles it will be 7.5Ah.
A bit worse than A123, but the price is unbeatable.. I will order some samples.

Hate to burst your bubble but I'll bet my left nut these are just rebadged headway cells

-They look exactly the same as headways right down to the heatshrink color, and nickel connection straps used.

- 10Ah PSI cells have a maximum specified Internal Resistance of 6mOhm and are rated at 10C continuous, 13C for 18seconds. If these cells are 10Ah cells are rated at 10milliohm then they can't truley be 30C continuous, 60C for 5seconds - The numbers dont add up. IMHO this is just another Chinese reseller posing as a manufacturer and making inflated performance claims. A common occurence.

 

[Doctorbass]

I wonder what is the voltage out of these cells at 30C :? ... 1.5VDC??.. :lol:

They claim 1800A burst... but with the actual connectins on itthe link vetween cells could just melt !!

let's be realistic...

Doc

 

[dogman dan]

Ok, now I'm curious what motor is going to take 300 amps? I'll assume its not a bike hubmotor. Dragbike?

 

[circuit]

I wonder what is the voltage out of these cells at 30C :? ... 1.5VDC??.. :lol:

0.2 V, actually.. :lol:

I have canceled my sample order after seeing these numbers... I have no respect for manufacturers/resellers who try to trick customers..

Ok, now I'm curious what motor is going to take 300 amps? I'll assume its not a bike hubmotor. Dragbike?

Three biggest outrunners from hobbycity..

 

[Ypedal]

I've been getting email offers from these guys for years.. filtered as spam. :|

That picture is absolutely headway cells.. and NOT 60C ( unless they refer to the temperature ie: Celcius lol )

 

[circuit]

OK, so after all I purchased a few samples.. And now I regret that. I have tested "2200 mAh 26650" and "10 Ah 32120" cells. Here are the results:

Initial capacity 1576 mAh instead of 2200 mAh claimed. 2,7% capacity loss in 30 cycles. Internal impedance before cycling - 8.5 mΩ.

Initial capacity 8500 mAh instead of 10 Ah claimed. 2,9% loss in 10 cycles. Internal impedance before cycling - 4.5 mΩ.
Temperature of my room is 20°C.

Well, impedance is near to A123's, but the capacity and cycle life... Peace of crap.

Today temperature in my town is -17°C, so I tried to start a car with four of those 32120 cells:

The car is 23 years old Renault 11. The last time the engine was working is yesterday morning. During the test I have completely disconnected car's stock battery and connected this one. Well, car did start after about 5+5 seconds (had to do a second shot, as it does not start very easily) of turning. Voltage sag was down to 6 volts.

 

[liveforphysics]

Whoa! What piles of crap! Maybe when they said 60C cells, they meant max operating temperature rather than discharge rate. lol

Even starting a racecar engine off 4 headways cells, the voltage only drops to 8-9vdc during cranking, and the headways roughly deliver the rated capacity at least. lol

 

[circuit]

Here is the video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVMR-_mYfu0

 

[liveforphysics]

I bet those are just headways. The cold temp would explain why they struggle cranking more than normal headways.

A 60C cell may take 4C charge rates, but your cell's Ri says something more like 1/2C charge rates if you desire some cell life.

 

[circuit]

ABF (the "manufacturer") swear these are not headway cells. The only markings on these are "+" and "-" signs and letter "H" in middle. Isn't that a "secret" marking for "headway"? :lol:

 

[liveforphysics]

ABF (the "manufacturer") swear these are not headway cells. The only markings on these are "+" and "-" signs and letter "H" in middle. Isn't that a "secret" marking for "headway"? :lol:

I think ABF lost it's last thread of credibility the moment they claimed 60C for a 5C cell. It wouldn't make a lot of difference to me if ABF said the cell's are made of solid platinum inside and they channel dead spirits and solve world hunger the moment you purchase them.

 

[circuit]

Anyway, I won't use this crap in my projects, so I will just put it on ebay and try to sell as "car kickstart pack". I will integrate some primitive protections and hope to get rid of these soon. I also have 10 pcs. of 26650 "2200 mAh" cells, will have to rid of those too. Anyone want them? 4 usd/peace (tabbed 26650).

 

[Ypedal]

To quote myself : :lol:

I've been getting email offers from these guys for years.. filtered as spam. :|

That picture is absolutely headway cells.. and NOT 60C ( unless they refer to the temperature ie: Celcius lol )

 

[gilnet]

I don't know,channeling is a pretty good sales hook.

 

[dequinox]

So after reading this thread I get the feeling the headway cells don't do very well either. Granted they aren't A123 but do they lose capacity at a rate anywhere near these cells? That would seem unlikely since so many people here use headway cells...

 

[John in CR]

Gotta watch out for those resellers. They probably don't even know what C means, and that was supposed to be an A, not a C. Just imagine the good quality cells we'll have available in 3-5 years. Other than maybe $1k I'll spend soon on some 20C Lipo's at <$.50/wh, I'd like to get 3yrs+ out of what I have before making any significant battery purchases, except maybe for a boat.

 

[biohazardman]

Most of us have many hours of research into finding cells that hold up to some decent discharge rates so we don't have to tow a trailer full of batteries behind us. I only know of a couple that fit the bill. A123 and good LIPO such as Turnigy, Zippy and a couple others I am sure others will fill in. Yes, they are spendy but it's the price you pay if you want something with some decent discharge rates that will last.