A123 AMP20 Battery Pack Build...

[miro13car]

Oh maybe itis not clear FISKAR puncher is an office puncher for paper sheets for binder sheets.
I am not sure STAPLES are in USA also?

 

[miro13car]

SlyCayer
Your's. Is real shop metal sheet puncher.
I don't have time to wait for shipped tools,
I would rather not buy any tools without having them in my hands first.

 

[peterperkins]

Anyone looked at http://www.te.com/catalog/cinf/en/c/11052/1009?PID=42403&RQS=C~11052.
foil terminators, could be good for tabs termiations.

We are looking at those on the http://www.insightcentral.net forum for our A123 builds.

We have spoken to the manufacturer about one type the 51943

Out of all the Termi Foil options listed I think it's best for the general cell interconnects as it offers the biggest surface area cover for the A123 tabs. It also has a simple 1/4" spade connection for the BMS/voltage taps.

The main power connections could be made by soldering a heavy gauge wire to the opposite end of the termi connector from the spade tab before it is crimped onto the cell tab.

It is shown as tin coated copper.
Max tab thickness is 0.76mm so you might just be able to make a 2P connection certainly 1P should be fine.

http://www.te.com/commerce/DocumentDelivery/DDEController?Action=srchrtrv&DocNm=51943&DocType=Customer+Drawing&DocLang=English&PartCntxt=51943

Ideally we would like a special Termi Foil product made which covers more/entire standard A123 tab area and has more punch points and an option of a screw terminal at the ends. This is a no go they won't consider a new product even for an order of 25,000 connectors.

A group purchase of the special crimping tool may well be a good idea.

From speaking to the company they have no samples available and are searching around for some for me.
The MOQ is 2000 and delivery would be around end July.

 

[docnjoj]

Anyone looked at http://www.te.com/catalog/cinf/en/c/11052/1009?PID=42403&RQS=C~11052.
foil terminators, could be good for tabs termiations.

Those things look like they would work but getting info on them is time consuming. I checked Digikey and the 10-12 ga ones are only 1/2 inch wide (12+mm). A123 tabs are 45 mm width. Use 2 per set of tabs? They don't cost a lot but the crimping tool is over 1000 USD. I hope that you can use a block of wood and a hammer to crimp Anyone else interested? I am waiting for agniusm's kit first but these look like another solution to the tab crimping problem.
otherDoc
Edit: Hello Peter. Your post just beat mine out!

 

[999zip999]

Two may be the easies way to go ? I like the idea but bigger. How many amps will it take ?

 

[SlyCayer]

I am not sure STAPLES are in USA also?

I am from Canada...

Slyer

LoL...

I don't have time to wait for shipped tools

LoL...

The MOQ is 2000 and delivery would be around end July.

Ouch on MOQ and Delivery time...

 

[megacycle]

We are looking at those on the http://www.insightcentral.net forum for our A123 builds.

We have spoken to the manufacturer about one type the 51943

Out of all the Termi Foil options listed I think it's best for the general cell interconnects as it offers the biggest surface area cover for the A123 tabs. It also has a simple 1/4" spade connection for the BMS/voltage taps.

The main power connections could be made by soldering a heavy gauge wire to the opposite end of the termi connector from the spade tab before it is crimped onto the cell tab.

It is shown as tin coated copper.
Max tab thickness is 0.76mm so you might just be able to make a 2P connection certainly 1P should be fine.

http://www.te.com/commerce/DocumentDelivery/DDEController?Action=srchrtrv&DocNm=51943&DocType=Customer+Drawing&DocLang=English&PartCntxt=51943

Ideally we would like a special Termi Foil product made which covers more/entire standard A123 tab area and has more punch points and an option of a screw terminal at the ends. This is a no go they won't consider a new product even for an order of 25,000 connectors.

A group purchase of the special crimping tool may well be a good idea.

From speaking to the company they have no samples available and are searching around for some for me.
The MOQ is 2000 and delivery would be around end July.

Hi Peter, have to have a look at your insight thread, i did'nt know you guys were already onto it .
Would be a few options, versatile, and what you've come up with sounds great.
i was considering 2x double splice like http://www.onlinecomponents.com/te-connectivity-amp-brand_329657.html?p=10359869, balance wires would just sit in the crutch as it is crimped, trim overlaps off, solder series and parallels, they're only about $0.70 US each so beats bus for me, with battery ends i'd maybe tin and bolt thru lugs.

Are you guys going to solder down the side of the termination, that should be ok, i was thinking across the the top.
With current rating they specify similar to 10/12 AWG, I'm from metric land so this equates 5-6mm2, i would have to say each single termifoil splice would do about 40A.
Would have about the equiv to 3 splices, when one is trimmed 120A which would exceed 20AH tab normal maximum current rating anyways.

With the crimper, they specify a seperate die so its probably fits standard crimping tools. $1000 sounds like a hydraulic one, how many are you thinking of doing .
I work as a sparky and the hand tool do'nt look much different to hand crimpers we use for fast on's and the like, it would obviously have a wider jaw, like the larger crimpers and probably a flat looking die.
I'll try and get more info tool or die from my wholesaler here in Oz.
Yeh that would be good to have the manafacturer do a private run,
Shame won't come to the party , might have to have to get those samples and a lot of metal sheet hmmm .

 

[pgt400]

Since it is thread about building A123 20Ah cell pack.
It might help
If you look for tool to make holes in tabs.
I found cheap and very useful.
Bought in STAPLES office supply chain hole puncher by FISKARS brand.
It makes lovely holes in 20Ah pouch cell terminals.

Whats the puncher look like? Hand held or table punch? Thx.

 

[999zip999]

I could make a couple out of copper sheet I have found in the corner of the garage. Heavy enough to keep persure and make a jig for the hole and dimple on one side to match. Drop a metal ruler on the tabs oops. Better get that plastic back out. Yes the alumiun took it worse. Couldn't have guess. Very little damage baby corner. Lucky

 

[rkosiorek]

The crimper required would not be difficult to produce as a replacement die set for standard ratcheting style crimping handles.

what is required is a swiveling head so that when it is closed it will naturally align itself flat and parallel with the opposing head. although some kind of heat treated tool steel would be best for a production tool. a basic set could be made from some hard but easy to machine steel like 12L14. those should easily last for several hundred crimps.

rick

 

[megacycle]

I think your talking about most standard heavy duty crimpers, which do align flat, with a cantilever rachet arrangement.
Is this what you mean
This is a cabac crimper, got a similar cheap $40/50 one in my kit.
.
An aussie link for purchase at around A$100 new. http://www.aussietradesupplies.com.au/catalogue/for_electricians/crimpers/copper_lug_hand_crimper_15_16mmPosted

Some info i found about tooling for this, i posted on the insight forum, as felt this was hijacking this thread some :?
http://www.insightcentral.net/forums/modifications-technical-issues/16928-a123-20ah-lithium-install-12.html.

Sorry bud. how's the kart build coming along

I think with a standard crimper, could just fill with weld a standard crimping lug die and grind to a flat,
would'nt be as hard as the die steel but for this application would it need to be ? not like we would be crimping tonnes.

http://www.futureelectronics.com/en/Technologies/Product.aspx?ProductID=13320060TYCOELECTRONICS5513395
A couple of hundred dollars for 500 to do 250 connections, build a decent size pack with that.
Group buy 1/2 price somewhere

 

[SlyCayer]

Sorry bud. how's the kart build coming along

It has came to a halt, doing 12-14 hours days at work right now and still have a Fiance to please... I have about 10 hours left of work of fabrication on the frame and etc and then it will be burnin some rubber .

 

[texaspyro]

It has came to a halt, doing 12-14 hours days at work right now and still have a Fiance to please... I have about 10 hours left of work of fabrication on the frame and etc and then it will be burnin some rubber .

You go to work... we'll please the fiance and burn some rubber

 

[rkosiorek]

you could use regular jaws as a start. but the swivel type anvils i was talking about would be more similar to what is on the tip of these vise grips.



rick

 

[megacycle]

Sorry bud. how's the kart build coming along

It has came to a halt, doing 12-14 hours days at work right now and still have a Fiance to please... I have about 10 hours left of work of fabrication on the frame and etc and then it will be burnin some rubber .

Was that the boss indoors, keeping an eye on things page 1 :wink: .

 

[megacycle]

you could use regular jaws as a start. but the swivel type anvils i was talking about would be more similar to what is on the tip of these vise grips.



rick

Would'nt hurt to try, could have well enough clamping force,
obviously i was looking for specified tooling or close to it. So the crimp is similar standard.

 

[rkosiorek]

I'm not sure if these will be rigid enough to guarantee a good crimp under all circumstances. but if you check out the instructions for the official tooling, they have this kind of swivel joint tip.

rick

 

[SlyCayer]

Was that the boss indoors, keeping an eye on things page 1 :wink: .

Yep, the boss on the job ...

 

[megacycle]

I'm not sure if these will be rigid enough to guarantee a good crimp under all circumstances. but if you check out the instructions for the official tooling, they have this kind of swivel joint tip.

rick

Apologies rick was'nt considering that the cantilevering action of the hand crimper, means without self aligning faces,
dies do start crimping at a angle, yeh obviously don't don't want this, need to always be parallel,
Now just a press, straight down no issues .

Need to find time to getting around to modding that old crimper.

 

[thedarlington]

guys just a drill bit and a guide http://www.evenfallstudios.com/toolworks/drilling_aids/images/small_drill_square_guide1_525.jpg

btw check out this elegant solution http://www.otherrobots.com/endlesssphere/20AhnobmsFalconEV.jpg

 

[deVries]

It has came to a halt, doing 12-14 hours days at work right now and still have a Fiance to please... I have about 10 hours left of work of fabrication on the frame and etc and then it will be burnin some rubber .

You go to work... we'll please the fiance and burn some rubber

Did you ever go to work & finish, or did texaspyro distract you/her too much? :lol:

 

[SlyCayer]

Did you ever go to work & finish, or did texaspyro distract you/her too much? :lol:

Well, none of the above... I am working on Off Road Suzuki Sidekick right now... My finger is still recovering and so is my miter saw fear...