A2B vs Custom Build

[pjwalmsley]

Hello everyone,

I'm new here and looking into e-bike options. I have narrowed myself down to 2 possibilities.

The first is an A2B Metro. I have the chance to pick one up for $1,200 new, if i act soon. I like the build quality and look of the A2B, but i worry the speed (limited to 20mph) and 500 cycle battery might be an issue latter on. I also fear the cops will hassle me a lot due to the look of the bike and the fact that my town is overrun with obnoxious cops. I would also want a second battery and larger front sprocket if I bought the A2B which would drive the price up to around $1,900.

The second option is a custom e-bike. I'm thinking of picking up a decent used mountain/road bike frame for $200-$300, then outfitting it with a Crystalyte Phoenix Cruiser (5304) motor, Crystalyte Phoenix Controller (72V, 40A), and 2 AmpedBikes LiFePO4 Water Bottle Tube Batteries or LiMn2O4 Water Bottle Tube Batteries or a 20AH Ping LiFePO4 Battery. Is there a way to have a switch to easily switch between a road legal setup (in my state this means, restricted to <20mph on flat, <750 Watts)? Does anyone know if you can mount 2 tube batteries in a mountain bike? What do you think of this build?

I need the bike to be reliable, legal, able to climb long steep hills (approximately 2 miles of 15 degree hills leading to my house), able to go ~30 miles without charging, and waterproof. I would like the bike to go as fast (even if it means pedaling). My intended budget is around $1,500. How do the batteries compare? What do you guys think is my best bet? Thanks for your input!

 

[AussieJester]

Hello everyone,

I'm new here and looking into e-bike options. I have narrowed myself down to 2 possibilities.

The first is an A2B Metro. I have the chance to pick one up for $1,200 new, if i act soon. I like the build quality and look of the A2B, but i worry the speed (limited to 20mph) and 500 cycle battery might be an issue latter on. I also fear the cops will hassle me a lot due to the look of the bike and the fact that my town is overrun with obnoxious cops. I would also want a second battery and larger front sprocket if I bought the A2B which would drive the price up to around $1,900.

The second option is a custom e-bike. I'm thinking of picking up a decent used mountain/road bike frame for $200-$300, then outfitting it with a Crystalyte Phoenix Cruiser (5304) motor, Crystalyte Phoenix Controller (72V, 40A), and 2 AmpedBikes LiFePO4 Water Bottle Tube Batteries or LiMn2O4 Water Bottle Tube Batteries or a 20AH Ping LiFePO4 Battery. Is there a way to have a switch to easily switch between a road legal setup (in my state this means, restricted to <20mph on flat, <750 Watts)? Does anyone know if you can mount 2 tube batteries in a mountain bike? What do you think of this build?

I need the bike to be reliable, legal, able to climb long steep hills (approximately 2 miles of 15 degree hills leading to my house), able to go ~30 miles without charging, and waterproof. I would like the bike to go as fast (even if it means pedaling). My intended budget is around $1,500. How do the batteries compare? What do you guys think is my best bet? Thanks for your input!

While i am all for the DIY (built 4 e-bikes from ground up) I would suggest the A2b if you can get it for 1200 bucks...
The Bike itself IMO is fantastic and as is, its 100% legal and you shouldn't be hassled. I would ride this around until funds
allowed for a battery upgrade for more distance if required, and/or you could even go for a new controller and motor down the track or simply up voltage to 48V
for increased performance..., you have a rock solid bike to build/modify etc if your find yourself wanting better performance.
Building a bike from parts is obviously the other option but i think for 1200 bucks a turn key A2B is a pretty good choice...
doubt you could buy a decent comparable MTB for half that with the same components etc...jm2c...

Best of luck and welcome to ES...

KiM

 

[USAEBIKECO]

Build your own. Since you built it , youu can fix it should something need repair.

Where would you take the A2B if you need a repair?

 

[MadRhino]

The A2B handles poorly compared to a good freeride bike, but it compares advantageously with a cheap FS.

IMO, 1200$ makes it a better choice than any build that one can do with that kind of money.

 

[AussieJester]

Build your own. Since you built it , youu can fix it should something need repair.

Where would you take the A2B if you need a repair?

If you have the knowledge to build your own e-bike you would have more than enough to fix the A2B, Lester.

KiM

 

[Ypedal]

Agreed.. my A2B is rock solid reliable so far, see complete review here :
http://www.ypedal.com/A2B/index.htm

The rear shock is not the best, but gets the job done, slap on some better pedals imo for a few bucks, and it's ready to go, it is not a serious hill climber tho, and 20mph is also all you get on 36v, i've tried 48v on mine and it is faster and you need a larger chainring to help pedal at that speed.. the soft start controller kinda sucks at 48v as your power is limited until you reach a certain speed ( like 10 km/h or so.. ) then it opens up nicely with good top speed... The a2b is best used as delivered, it's a well made product, legal, and weatherproof !
I wash mine with a hose :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjJlhivablM

[youtube]bjJlhivablM[/youtube]

the DIY 30mph with big hill climbing power ( not legal anymore, but cops have no clue what max power you have on tap, ride with respect, wear your helmet, and it's a non-issue ) .. will cost you more than 1200 $...... forget using the amped battery with an X5, it will not work.. you have to match up the right battery for an X5 to work it's magic, and buying an X5 only to limit the power is a waste of money..

a DIY in-between would be a 9C kit from ebikes.ca run at 48v , it's over 500w, not quite " legal " but it's close and climbs hills well..

how much do you weigh ?

 

[USAEBIKECO]

Build your own. Since you built it , youu can fix it should something need repair.

Where would you take the A2B if you need a repair?

If you have the knowledge to build your own e-bike you would have more than enough to fix the A2B, Lester.

KiM

Im playing devils advocate here.

Components in the frame. Not an ideal situation for maintenance and repair. Why do you think Best Buy discontinued selling them in their stores?

Its much better to build your own ebike, that way you know all the parts and where they came from and can get the parts easily if needed. It's a sense of accomplishment to create something useful. This is just my opinion after building ebikes for the past 3 years.

 

[stanz]

The choice was easy for me since I had a bike that fit me just right so I decided to build my own, actually I start the build today.

There are so many variables to consider that the choice can be daunting. My advice would be to find a bike that fits you and your riding style. That might be a pre-built eBike or a standard bike. You have many more choices with standard bikes so you'll probably be happier with the DIY route.

As far as drive train goes I went with AmpedBikes due to feedback here and at other sites on the Internet. Keep it under 750 watts and you should be legal though the police don't spend their days chasing down overpowered electric bikes. My controller can handle up to 60 volts but 36V should be plenty for my needs.

With your budget I'd go with lithium power. More cycles, less weight per unit of storage.

As with anything, your mileage may vary.

 

[Gordo]

Im playing devils advocate here.

Why do you think Best Buy discontinued selling them in their stores?

Its much better to build your own ebike, that way you know all the parts and where they came from and can get the parts easily if needed. It's a sense of accomplishment to create something useful. This is just my opinion after building ebikes for the past 3 years.

As I have seen this comment many times before on the A2B and other e-bikes sold by the Big Box Stores, I decided to ask the question of the store employees. The answer from the employees is that people with no clue, buy an e-bike, run the battery flat and then leave it sit for a few days before putting it on the charger. Now they have destroyed the battery, they bring it back for a no questions ask refund. When a large percentage of a product gets returned, the store drops the product. The problem is the person who purchased the A2B, not the bike. Fact, not opinion. $1200 is good bang for the buck. Building your own bike can be very educational and rewarding. As demonstrated in 100's of post on ES it can also be a ridiculously long, frustrating and difficult experience, beginning with 50% of the order being out of stock, to lost or damaged parts, to wrong parts shipped, to outright fraud, to mistakes making smoke. $1200 = go ride, vs the alternative.

 

[stanz]

Building your own bike can be very educational and rewarding. As demonstrated in 100's of post on ES it can also be a ridiculously long, frustrating and difficult experience, beginning with 50% of the order being out of stock, to lost or damaged parts, to wrong parts shipped, to outright fraud, to mistakes making smoke. $1200 = go ride, vs the alternative.

Gordo,

Who burned you? AmpedBikes shipped my order earlier than they promised, it was complete and it was bench tested before it shipped.

Here's my build post:

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=27974

 

[Hillhater]

The fact that you have to ask the question suggests that you are unlikely to have the determination, know how, or experience to build a custom bike to suit the ambitious spec that you propose. !
Over 20 mph, uphill, 30 mile range , legal, waterproof, <$1500 , etc ...is a big ask.
Ask yourself if you really think you can build that machine ??
..Get the $1200 bargain.

 

[Gordo]

Building your own bike can be very educational and rewarding. As demonstrated in 100's of post on ES it can also be a ridiculously long, frustrating and difficult experience, beginning with 50% of the order being out of stock, to lost or damaged parts, to wrong parts shipped, to outright fraud, to mistakes making smoke. $1200 = go ride, vs the alternative.

Gordo,

Who burned you? AmpedBikes shipped my order earlier than they promised, it was complete and it was bench tested before it shipped.

Here's my build post:

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=27974

No one burned me, yet. I have a scooter which works very well, several bikes in parts and an order of parts on the way. I was referring to others who have posted their frustrations.

 

[AussieJester]

Build your own. Since you built it , youu can fix it should something need repair.

Where would you take the A2B if you need a repair?

If you have the knowledge to build your own e-bike you would have more than enough to fix the A2B, Lester.

KiM

Im playing devils advocate here.

No Lester your not, your doing what you always do when an A2B or any e-bike thats not a product of yours is posted, you kick the piss
out of it and use pretty much the same arguments everytime.. Want to see over priced rubbish look no further than Chicago Electric Bicycles IMHO.

KiM

 

[Icewrench]

Get the a2b.
Use it for a while to see if an e bike is for you.
You can build another one later on.

 

[pjwalmsley]

Thanks everyone! I'm going to go look at the A2B this weekend.

 

[Gordo]

Get the a2b.
Use it for a while to see if an e bike is for you.
You can build another one later on.

+1

 

[stanz]

Get the a2b.
Use it for a while to see if an e bike is for you.
You can build another one later on.

+1

-1

Build your bike.

If you buy the a2b you are stuck with the bike design. If you buy a kit and don't like the bike you can move the kit to another bike. Well I guess you could move the wheel from the a2b to another 20" bike.

 

[John in CR]

That A2B price would be hard for even cheapo me to pass up.

OTOH, one thing not mentioned is that building your own primary transportation comes with special sense of freedom and satisfaction, at least it does for me.

 

[pjwalmsley]

Unfortunately he sold his A2Bs to a another dealer, who wants 2,400 for them. Fortunately I was able to pick up a Trek Navigator 200 in perfect condition for $125 at a local bike swap.

I now have two frames at my disposal for an e-bike conversion. The Trek Navigator 200 or a Trek 3900. The 3900 has a larger frame (19.5" vs <18"). Both are aluminum frames. Both have rim brakes. Both have aluminum shocks. Will I need to use torque arms on a rear driven, aluminum bike? The Navigator is in perfect condition. The Navigator has grip shifters, so i would need to use a thumb throttle. Has anyone had experiences with thumb throttles? Are they spring loaded? Are the comfortable? The Trek 3900 needs a new rear cassette and fork/shock. The Navigator is more road oriented, so I would prefer to use it.

Will mounting a rear motor with a 20ah lithium battery on a rear rack be stable? Would I be better off mounting batteries in the frame? Thanks for the input on the bike.

 

[biohazardman]

Unfortunately he sold his A2Bs to a another dealer, who wants 2,400 for them. Fortunately I was able to pick up a Trek Navigator 200 in perfect condition for $125 at a local bike swap.

I now have two frames at my disposal for an e-bike conversion. The Trek Navigator 200 or a Trek 3900. The 3900 has a larger frame (19.5" vs <18"). Both are aluminum frames. Both have rim brakes. Both have aluminum shocks. Will I need to use torque arms on a rear driven, aluminum bike? The Navigator is in perfect condition. The Navigator has grip shifters, so i would need to use a thumb throttle.

Has anyone had experiences with thumb throttles? Are they spring loaded? Are the comfortable?


Yes, the thumb throttles are spring loaded. If you place the throttle in the correct position it is more or less comfortable depending on how far you travel and how good yer hands are.

The Trek 3900 needs a new rear cassette and fork/shock. The Navigator is more road oriented, so I would prefer to use it.
Will mounting a rear motor with a 20ah lithium battery on a rear rack be stable?


Depends on how much the motor and how much the battery weigh. The higher up the batteries are the more they upset ballance at very low speeds or when stopped. 10 to 15 LBs is acceptable to me more is not.

Would I be better off mounting batteries in the frame? Thanks for the input on the bike.

Yes, the bike is much better ballanced if the weight is in the frame.

 

[Hillhater]

Unfortunately he sold his A2Bs to a another dealer, ...

HESITATION ... "the thief of good times !"

 

[pjwalmsley]

I know. On the plus side I now have $1,075 to put toward a diy e-bike. What are my options for in frame batteries? The only prebuilt solution I have seen is the 36 volt LiFePO4 water bottle mounted tube battery at AmpedBikes. The rest of the packs seem to wide to fit in frame. I could have cell man build a custom battery from A123s. I might be able to do this myself. I have access to a 3d printer, so I could print some nice battery brackets and just insert copper strips and BMS probes. I could also build a battery myself from multiple ~12 volt turnigy or zippy packs sold by HobbyKing. If I were to build a battery from HobbyKing packs, would i need a additional BMS? Also could I wire all of the batteries to one on board charger? I worry that custom in frame batteries may not be as waterproof, stealthy, or easy to mount.

The price, capacity, and build flexibility of the batteries at HobbyKing is best. I could build a large box to occupy the entire area inside the frame. The box's edges would be made of a bent aluminum or steel plate. The sides would be lexan or sheet metal. The steel frame would be less than 4" wide (3" if possible) to allow pedal clearance. It would be attached to the frame with screws at the water bottle mounts and stainless steel clamps all around. The inside would be framed out with wood to create battery racks, a place for the BMS, a place for the charger, and potential a place for the controller. The bottom of the box would be vented. There would be three holes in the box. One for wires to controls, one for wires to the motor, and one for a charger port. While no quite stealthy, this setup woyuld allow for a very clean build and easy expansion. What do you think for this setup?

 

[Hillhater]

..I think ... the answers to your questions are all in these forums.
Rea , read , read ..

 

[tuxman]

Street legal- go with a geared hub motor, usually has more thrust at lower wattage than direct drive. Check out the pre-built iZip Zuma or the Freedom kit from Hi-Power Cycles. However, I don't know if their kits have brake inhibits. Which are nice to have with a geared hub motor to help prevent gear damage, and also required in some states. Less than $1,400.

Or Not street legal- go with a direct drive kit from electricrider for state of the art, quietest, and maintenance free. Spend as much as you can afford. Go with the high voltage, high amperage, high discharge LiFePo4. Better have deep pockets!

 

[Lessss]

Remember it's also got to have a sticker from the manufacturer saying it's an ebike to be legal.