Anyone here use a MAC 500/100 watt motor on a Road Bike

[ScooterMan101]

I have a good road bike that is not getting much/any use, because of health/age reasons.
I was going to build up my new MAC hub motor into a 27.5 ( 650b ) heavy / cheep 8 speed mountain bike,
But now I would like to use that for just around town/pulling a trailer .

I Really I want to go on longer rides , and use the Road bike more often but that will , only , come with help from a Motor + Batteries

I would use 36 volts at first to keep the speed and amps down.

The thickness of the Aluminium on both the cheep Mountain bike and the very good Disc Road bike I have is 8.5 mm, with just 0.7 mm lip on the inside of the Mountain bike. so the dropouts are the same, just a little more material around the dropouts on the cheep mountain bike, But , wouldn't the Road bike have better quality aluminium ? so as to equal the difference of seat tube/chain stay tube size ?

Anyone here use 500-1000 watts on a road bike ?

 

[ScooterMan101]

The Big Question I have is not so much , about how much power the motor has,

but the torque ( I have high speed hub motor 6 T MAC ) and

Biggest Question I have on this is really the Weight of the Hub Motor, as it weighs 4.3 kg / 9.46 lbs.
and the effect on the frame .

 

[Raged]

I cant comment on the MAC 6T, however my MAC 10T will shred aluminium dropouts pretty easily without torque arms (58V 14S lipo + 12FET 40A) . The bigger issue is brakes and tires as you're going faster than normal road bikes and the bike is an extra 8kg heavier. I personally wouldnt go faster than 30mph with a 20kg bike without disc brakes and fat tires. So you can stop in the wet and you have a bigger contact patch to overcome the weight penalty.

What's the biggest tire you can fit in the road frame?

 

[Snelheid Cycles]

I agree with Raged, the dropout is going to be your weak point. Also, the motor hub width is 135mm and most road bikes are 120mm. It is not advised to spread Aluminum frames as they can easily crack. Then depending on the type of dropout, and grade of Aluminum, the torque from your MAC could deform the dropout.

There are cheap steel frames which would be more suitable. Heavier, but much stronger and trustrworthy.

 

[ScooterMan101]

Being a 6 T , I am guessing it does not have the torque of the 10T , The Dropouts are 7.9 mm thick ... However , As with good road bikes, the tubes ( seat stays, and chain stays ) taper down at the drop out. so I am not sure how much torque they could take
. I would use / make a torque arm . My Road bike is just two years old, and has disc brakes, and Mountain disc brakes at that , ( Avid BB7 's ) I built it up as a flat bar road bike. So braking is good

I have gone down hill on it 2 times over 36 kph, 2 times over 40 kph, and 44.5 and 45.6 kph, and it feels rock solid . it is a great bike and so the concern about damaging the frame/dropouts .

I put 700c x 35 tires on it, the 35 really measures to 32 wide, but is tall , so I am thinking it would only allow a 38 , not sure if it would take a 42 ?

I am looking at a different hub now, a 250 watt one that I can put more wattage into, one that is 3kg / 6.6 lbs in weight instead of the 4.3 Kg / 9.46 lbs of the MAC

I cant comment on the MAC 6T, however my MAC 10T will shred aluminium dropouts pretty easily without torque arms (58V 14S lipo + 12FET 40A) . The bigger issue is brakes and tires as you're going faster than normal road bikes and the bike is an extra 8kg heavier. I personally wouldnt go faster than 30mph with a 20kg bike without disc brakes and fat tires. So you can stop in the wet and you have a bigger contact patch to overcome the weight penalty.

What's the biggest tire you can fit in the road frame?

 

[ScooterMan101]

I have a modern road bike, with disc brakes, that has 135 mm dropout spacing and the dropouts are 7.9 mm thick , however with a 8-9 speed freewheel, it would be stretched out to 139 mm or 140 mm. ( spacer on both sides, cause I also need a little clearance for the disc caliper .
I have tried the MAC in it , not build up, and it does not spread the dropouts out much, ( 5mm , total, with spacers on each side of axle )
However I am very concerned with braking / deforming a very good road bike frame, so now I am looking into a less powerful / less weight hub motor for it. the 250 watt ( and putting more volts into it to up the power ) The Befang SWXH , but the Seller ( greenbikekit.com ) is saying to use a 6 mosfet controller, on the SWXH and they do not list how many Fets their controllers have , so I am waiting to hear back from them on that , and how long to get it to the U.S.
I have not found a seller for that hub in the U.S.
Others have put 48v/60/72 volts through it, I would only put up to 48 volts into it , because my road bike's purpose is to get me out on the road with the Roadies . Where I live is a , Very popular area for Road Biking .
I am now thinking it is best to use the MAC motor I have in a 26 inch or 650B Mountain Bike . or just sell the MAC Motor .

I agree with Raged, the dropout is going to be your weak point. Also, the motor hub width is 135mm and most road bikes are 120mm. It is not advised to spread Aluminum frames as they can easily crack. Then depending on the type of dropout, and grade of Aluminum, the torque from your MAC could deform the dropout.

There are cheap steel frames which would be more suitable. Heavier, but much stronger and trustrworthy.

 

[Raged]

If you've got disc brakes then I say go for it. Just don't go overboard on your first few trips as you'll be smashing 60+km/h and it's easy to be addicted to speed and overtaking pretty much everything that isn't a car or motorbike. I run a MAC10T @ 48V (58V off the charger) and hit 50km/h, so a 6T would be insane high speed long distance cruising. You just need to put in a bit of effort at the start and uphill.

I run big apples 28 x 2" in MTB speak or 700c 50c in road bike speak (being a 29er, I can choose either setup). So a 700c 35c will still be strong enough to handle the weight of the motor. Just don't do kerb jumping and ride it like a road bike.

 

[ScooterMan101]

I just got back from the Local Bike Shop who ordered for me a 700c rim ( Alex TD 17 ), and I see it is not as strong as the 26 inch down hill rim I have , or the Mavic EN321 650b rim I also have, so with all the research I have done in the last 48 hours ,
and with seeing the 700 c Rim now,
I Have
Decided to ... not , put the MAC on my Road Bike, Too Heavy a hub , and I do need all that much Power/Torque on the Road Bike, ( I have a mountain bike I can put the MAC hub onto anyway )

Now looking at lighter weight , less power rear hub motors for the Road Build.

If you've got disc brakes then I say go for it. Just don't go overboard on your first few trips as you'll be smashing 60+km/h and it's easy to be addicted to speed and overtaking pretty much everything that isn't a car or motorbike. I run a MAC10T @ 48V (58V off the charger) and hit 50km/h, so a 6T would be insane high speed long distance cruising. You just need to put in a bit of effort at the start and uphill.

I run big apples 28 x 2" in MTB speak or 700c 50c in road bike speak (being a 29er, I can choose either setup). So a 700c 35c will still be strong enough to handle the weight of the motor. Just don't do kerb jumping and ride it like a road bike.

 

[Raged]

I run an Alex DM24 for balloon tires. I think the only other one designed for ebikes in 700c was DH19.

Anyways, good luck with your build. =)

 

[d8veh]

For a road bike, you want a small motor like the Q100H. There's little point in putting anything much bigger (heavier) on a road bike because you'll lose all the weight advantage it has, so you might as well electrify a MTB, which will be much more comfortable.

If you just want the motor to help you cruise at high speed, you could use the 328 rpm one. If you want help up steep hills, the 260 rpm one would be better or run the 201 rpm 36v one at 48v.

 

[ScooterMan101]

How does the Q100H compare to the Befang SWXH ?
or
The Q128 ? Side by Side ...

Weight ? for my Road Bike Build I want the lightest hub possible , while still being able to get 450-500 watts to the ground .
What controller at 48 volts ? Lyen, Infinenon

Buying through BMS Battery or Greenbikekit.com ? I have not had time to find reviews on those dealers .

For a road bike, you want a small motor like the Q100H. There's little point in putting anything much bigger (heavier) on a road bike because you'll lose all the weight advantage it has, so you might as well electrify a MTB, which will be much more comfortable.

If you just want the motor to help you cruise at high speed, you could use the 328 rpm one. If you want help up steep hills, the 260 rpm one would be better or run the 201 rpm 36v one at 48v.

 

[d8veh]

The Q100H is the lightest at 2.2kg compared with about 3.5kg for the others. It spins much faster (higher reduction ratio), which is why it gives good torque. Ask BMSB if they still have the 36v 260 rom one. It may be just an omission from their new web-site.

 

[ScooterMan101]

Yea the listed weight for the Befang SWXH is 3 kg,

I do want to go with 48 volts though,
are you using 36 or 48 volts ?
I do not see the weight for the Q128 , https://bmsbattery.com/index.php?id_product=398&controller=product ,
Did you get sensor or without sensors ?

Which speed did you get 201 or 328 rpm ? what difference in speed / torque between the two ?

Can the Q series ( Q100H , or Q128 , use a 6 fet infineon controller like the 6F4110 ? it can handle from 36 volts to 72 volts.

Can Cycle Analysts be plugged into the Q series motors / controllers ?

The Q100H is the lightest at 2.2kg compared with about 3.5kg for the others. It spins much faster (higher reduction ratio), which is why it gives good torque. Ask BMSB if they still have the 36v 260 rom one. It may be just an omission from their new web-site.

 

[ScooterMan101]

What speeds are you getting on your Q100H ? 201 or 328 rpm ? what voltage are you running ? How many amps is your controller set at max ?

Thanks

The Q100H is the lightest at 2.2kg compared with about 3.5kg for the others. It spins much faster (higher reduction ratio), which is why it gives good torque. Ask BMSB if they still have the 36v 260 rom one. It may be just an omission from their new web-site.

 

[d8veh]

I have my Q100Hs in a 2WD mtb, so a bit different to what you want. They're 260 rpm. I'm running them at 15A each. At that current they have about the same power and torque as the standard Q100. Their main advantage over the Q100 is their ability to run at higher amps. 20A at 36v should be OK or 15A at 48v.

All the Q100 series motors are a little sensitive to the choice of controllers. Only use one that's proven to work with them. They don't go very well sensorless.

 

[ScooterMan101]

What would your bike do if it had the 201 rpm motor ? with only rear ?
compared to
The 260 rpm one ?

My plan now is to start off with 36 volt pack, and then do 48 volt pack as soon as possible , so I will probably just have to order a 36 volt 250 watt controller, and 48 volt 450 watt controller at the same time.

( I am talking about the Befang SWXH ) I still don't have enough information on the Q motors , and if they are better than the Befang SWXH , or what other differences are.

I have my Q100Hs in a 2WD mtb, so a bit different to what you want. They're 260 rpm. I'm running them at 15A each. At that current they have about the same power and torque as the standard Q100. Their main advantage over the Q100 is their ability to run at higher amps. 20A at 36v should be OK or 15A at 48v.

All the Q100 series motors are a little sensitive to the choice of controllers. Only use one that's proven to work with them. They don't go very well sensorless.

 

[Racer_X]

Totally agree with d8veh, I have built all three of the ebikes hub motors that you are considering. For a light weight racer the Q100 is the BOMB.
The SWXH is a nice motor too. The thing you have to be aware of with the Bafang SWXH is that it is noisier and heavier.
The 6T wind I have not worked with personally but have worked with the Mac in 10T and 8T configurations. It is a beast of a geared motor and will effect the balance of the road bike.

2nd choice would be the SWXH if I wanted the extra few kilometers per hour with a weight and sound penalty. That said with 48v and a 20 amp controller you will be able to reach 40+ km/h and overtaking pretty much everything that isn't a car or motorbike.
48v and a 18 amp controller is max for the Q100.

If you get your stuff from greenbikekit you could add a 9FET controller to the cart, and then trim it to 20 for the SWXH amps or 18amps for the Q100 (25amps default)
OR get a 6FET controller from Lyen and have him trim it for you.

For a road bike, you want a small motor like the Q100H. There's little point in putting anything much bigger (heavier) on a road bike because you'll lose all the weight advantage it has, so you might as well electrify a MTB, which will be much more comfortable.

If you just want the motor to help you cruise at high speed, you could use the 328 rpm one. If you want help up steep hills, the 260 rpm one would be better or run the 201 rpm 36v one at 48v.

EDIT* If your end goal is 48v. Start with 48v.

 

[ScooterMan101]

Racer-X ,
Yep the more I hear and think about it , the Mac hub rear motor would not be good for a light weight road bike.
Also
I am now, starting to think about a different motor than the SWXH, for the reasons you listed ( heavier than the Q100, , and, because greenbikekit, only has controllers for it , that do not hook up directly to the Cycle Analyst, V2.3 ,
I want to use a Cycle Analyst 2.3 on what ever motor/controller I get .
and also I asked 4-5 times how long to ship from china to California, and they still did not answer, after asking them 4-5 times !

Here in the U.S.A. we do not have to limit our e-bikes to 250 watts. and I will be just using a throttle. or a throttle, with cruse control when I can remember where I saw them for sale.

I will now start looking into the Q100, / Q128 bmsbattery.com is listing the Q100 rear at 36 volt and 250-350 watts, , they list the Q128 rear at 48volts / 400-500 watt, which would be great for my road bike, however, they do not list the weight of the Q128 . it does look just lilke the Q100 though so I wonder about that, I do want the lightest weight hub motor I can get.
Do you know about the Q128 ? or , how it is different from the Q100 ?
Where did you buy your Q100 from ?
How much does just the Hub Q100 weigh , before you built it up into the wheel ?
How long did it take to get to Sweden ?

Oh BTW, Nice build on your Specialized Road Bike there.

Tack
Scooterman

Totally agree with d8veh, I have built all three of the ebikes hub motors that you are considering. For a light weight racer the Q100 is the BOMB.
The SWXH is a nice motor too. The thing you have to be aware of with the Bafang SWXH is that it is noisier and heavier.
The 6T wind I have not worked with personally but have worked with the Mac in 10T and 8T configurations. It is a beast of a geared motor and will effect the balance of the road bike.

2nd choice would be the SWXH if I wanted the extra few kilometers per hour with a weight and sound penalty. That said with 48v and a 20 amp controller you will be able to reach 40+ km/h and overtaking pretty much everything that isn't a car or motorbike.
48v and a 18 amp controller is max for the Q100.

If you get your stuff from greenbikekit you could add a 9FET controller to the cart, and then trim it to 20 for the SWXH amps or 18amps for the Q100 (25amps default)
OR get a 6FET controller from Lyen and have him trim it for you.

For a road bike, you want a small motor like the Q100H. There's little point in putting anything much bigger (heavier) on a road bike because you'll lose all the weight advantage it has, so you might as well electrify a MTB, which will be much more comfortable.

If you just want the motor to help you cruise at high speed, you could use the 328 rpm one. If you want help up steep hills, the 260 rpm one would be better or run the 201 rpm 36v one at 48v.

EDIT* If your end goal is 48v. Start with 48v.

 

[d8veh]

The Q128 is bigger than the Q100. It'Il weigh about 3kg or slightly more. You can connect any controller to the CA. You only have to solder a couple of wires - about 5 minutes work.

 

[rsilvers]

I would use 36 volts at first to keep the speed and amps down.

36v uses more amps than 48v, not less. The point of going to higher voltages is that they allow for lower amps for the same amount of watts.

 

[ScooterMan101]

You are right I forgot about that when I wrote that , with the Q100 cst build I was going to use my 36 volt battery since it is enclosed in a nice bottle shape with the bottle cage bracket . With my 48 volt battery I still do not yet have a good custom made case for it. I found someone who works with composites, but he is very busy right now.

Since you have a 3 d printer ,
I hope you would consider making a few things for us D.I.Y. ers here on E.S. a few items that are really needed are :
A PAS sensor ring that will work with the newer cranksets on bikes these days ( in two halves that fit/glue onto the innerchainring. Road bike compact chainrings.
and
A throttle that has a hinge to fit around a road bar, that snaps/bolts together once it is around your bar,
especially a Egro Road Bar.
A Throttle that does not have a spring that hurts your thumb or throttle one that does not strain the wrists like the ones on the market now. Perhaps one with a push button up and down for incremental increases or decreases in speed.

I would use 36 volts at first to keep the speed and amps down.

36v uses more amps than 48v, not less. The point of going to higher voltages is that they allow for lower amps for the same amount of watts.